The Case for Renaming the USS John C. Stennis

A6E Dad

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Really interesting, and eye opening article in the current Proceedings,


I'll admit, much of the info in the article was new to me, and the author makes some powerful arguments.

As to the process of renaming a capital ship during in the middle of its active life (and in the service of the same navy), I have no idea how the superstitions and voodoo would have to work.
 
I agree with the author. I also dislike naming ships after politicians. Highly decorated military personnel, battles, US states, etc. I'm OK with. Politicians, definitely not; & that's before this article. If they wish to be remembered, then erect a statue of them in their home state/district; & we'll see how that goes.
 
Really interesting, and eye opening article in the current Proceedings,


I'll admit, much of the info in the article was new to me, and the author makes some powerful arguments.

As to the process of renaming a capital ship during in the middle of its active life (and in the service of the same navy), I have no idea how the superstitions and voodoo would have to work.
That is an eye-opening article. Thanks for posting!
 
I agree with the author. I also dislike naming ships after politicians. Highly decorated military personnel, battles, US states, etc. I'm OK with. Politicians, definitely not; & that's before this article. If they wish to be remembered, then erect a statue of them in their home state/district; & we'll see how that goes.
I think we know.
 
As a practitioner of prose guilty of the occasional peppering of hyperbole and hypotheticals, I appreciate Mr. Green’s article even with his enhancements such as:

“I can recall vividly and with much emotion the day I boarded the USS Gettysburg (CG-64) as the in-port training department head for Destroyer Squadron Eight in Mayport, Florida, saluted the ensign on the fantail, and turned to see the officer of the deck standing beside a display of the U.S. flag and the Confederate battle flag, awaiting my salute. For the first and only time in my career, I failed to render the proper salute, instead simply walking past without a word or gesture of any kind. I could not do it.” Did the confederate flag really cause him such distress that he failed to salute the OOD? Maybe, it’s his story but it wasn’t the flag he failed to salute.

Also, “If the Navy is serious about listening to minority sailors and officers, I hope it will consider the optics of the future USS Doris Miller (do you recognize the name—look it up!) and the current John C. Stennis steaming together or tied up in the same basin.” As a reader I didn’t appreciate the condescending tone. I bet readers of Proceedings know very well who Dorie Miller was. If not, surely their intellectual curiosity would have them “look it up.”

He does though point out facts I didn’t know about. Facts that are difficult to read but being a child of the 60s and 70s in Alabama, have no trouble believing. He’s a strong advocate for equality and equity as we all should be. He writes about a CO who damaged his career and I noticed he retired as a lieutenant commander. I looked up his bio which I linked below and he is prior enlisted. He writes of the divisive comments attached to the issue of the services banning the confederate flag. I’ve seen them as well and while very disturbing, they are not surprising.

I agree in principle to striking the Stennis name from the ship but also agree with the comment by @A6E Dad “As to the process of renaming a capital ship during in the middle of its active life (and in the service of the same navy), I have no idea how the superstitions and voodoo would have to work.” Besides the massive effort required for a name change which isn’t just cutting STENNIS from the stern, but oodles of other tasks, sailors are a superstitious bunch. I for one wouldn’t want to go to sea on a renamed ship regardless of who the new name is.

 
case in point:

USS Midway (CVE 63), escort carrier in WWII.

Commissioned in OCT '43, fought at the Marianas, Saipan, and Tinian.

Returned to port in Oct'44 and learned it had been renamed USS Saint Lo, to honor the recent victory in Europe, and to make the name available for the new Midway (CV 41).

Saint Lo returned to sea, and was sunk 2 weeks later by kamikazes at Leyte Gulf (operating with the infamous "Taffy 3")

bad luck?...?


@Devil Doc - yes, i also thought it was a little strange that he though readers of Proceedings would have to look up Dorie Miller to see who he was
 
I've been reading Proceedings back from when it was a magazine. The XO's stateroom on Knox class frigates is just outside the forward wardroom door and I would cut through the wardroom to get there. Sick Bay was just aft of the wardroom pantry so it was a nice shortcut for me. If the WR was empty, I would take their copy and bring it back after I finished.

Speaking of the Knox class, Petty Officer Miller had USS Miller FF-1091 named in his honor. The naming of this Ford class carrier after him is well deserved. We owe men such as him everything.

Speaking of ship's names, most of the crew don't even know other than the name, who their ship is named after. They identify with the ship's reputation, their shipmates, and the quality of their chain of command. I occasionally look up my ships' namesake to keep my memory up to date. Here are my four in order not counting ones in which I was embarked troops or TAD:

USS Forrest Sherman DD-931: ship was first of its class. Admiral Forrest Percival Sherman, USNA '18, was up until Zumwalt, the youngest ever CNO. He had a storied and multi-faceted career. He was onboard USS Missouri at the surrender signing. To me he resembled Marcus Welby actor Robert Young.

USS Cochrane DDG-21: Cochrane was the 20th C.F. Adams class which I view as the baddest, best looking, and fully loaded warship ever. I loved that ship. VADM Edward Lull Cochrane USNA '14 was the Chief of the Bureau of Ships, BUSHIPS, from 1942 until 1946 and was directly responsible for the massive shipbuilding effort in WWII.

USS Savannah AOR-4: a city in Georgia which doesn't mean much to most sailors except when the ship with your city's name pulls in on St. Patrick's Day, then stand by for a major good welcome and extreme hospitality. The Navy's auxiliary ships are the hardest working in the USN. They all are owned by MSC these days but their hard work and mission remains.

USS Bowen FF-1079: Bowen was a bad little shooter who was the first to fire on Beirut in the early 80s. Named after VADM Harold G. Bowen USNA '05 who was also a shipbuilder, engineer, naval research lab type of officer.

For the most part, sailors don't know or care much about their ships namesake. Those on Stennis now do. It'll be interesting to see how this evolves.
 
Reading about all of these ship names got me curioius. Did a little digging into my grandfather's WW2 service. Of all the ships he was assigned to, the name that stood out to me the most; the USS Rock (SS 275). Named for a fish found in the Chesapeake. But, all I can hear is----- 'she sinks like a rock'. Thankfully, due to some luck, skill and a dud torpedo she never did sink.
 
Rock (SS 274) was a Gato-class submarine, built in Wisconsin. Here she is doing her sea trials in Lake Michigan:

1593552298475.png

I always liked the Gato boats, and I think that she was a fine example. The "Final Dispositions" after being stricken from the registry is always so sad:
Final Disposition, designated for use as a target & then sold for scrap on 17 August 1972. Rock earned four battle stars for World War II service.
 
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Rock (SS 274) was a Gato-class submarine, built in Wisconsin. Here she is doing her sea trials in Lake Michigan:

View attachment 6088

I always liked the Gato boats, and I think that she was a fine example. The "Final Dispositions" after being stricken from the registry is always so sad:
Final Disposition, designated for use as a target & then sold for scrap on 17 August 1972. Rock earned four battle stars for World War II service.
He actually served on quite a few. USS Arizona, USS Aylin, USS Tarpon, USS Spadefish, USS Sea Raven, USS Devilfish and USS Sea Poacher. I know he was off of the Arizona prior to Pearl Harbor, and he saw action in the Phillipines and in several other locations as well. He did love the Navy, and his time at the Academy. Sorry to go off OP's original post. I took a fork in the road.
 
this thread got off track pretty quick. The left screams about doing away with anything that has a racist past, unless it involves a Democrat. Schools named for confederate generals are being renamed rapidly so why not a Navy ship; and if you are worried about superstition grow up.
 
I just read another - - at least to me - - disturbing fact about the late Senator Stennis. During the infamous Emmit Till lynching trial in Mississippi trial in 1955, it was leaked to the press that Emmitt Till's estranged father, Louis Till, had been tried, convicted and hanged for rape and murder while in military service in Italy in 1945. (The fact of Louis Till's conviction and hanging was not discussed in the current movie, by the way.) The Louis Till file was classified. Even Emmit Till's mother had not been told by the Army of the details of Louis Till's conviction.

I have read that the two US Senators from Mississippi, one of whom was John Stennis, are suspected to have been the ones who arranged to have the Army leak Louis Till's file to the press in order to discredit the NAACP and cast aspersions on Emmit Till's character. I vote for re-naming the USS Stennis.
 
Rock (SS 274) was a Gato-class submarine, built in Wisconsin. Here she is doing her sea trials in Lake Michigan:

View attachment 6088

I always liked the Gato boats, and I think that she was a fine example. The "Final Dispositions" after being stricken from the registry is always so sad:
Final Disposition, designated for use as a target & then sold for scrap on 17 August 1972. Rock earned four battle stars for World War II service.
My favorite Gato Class.
1667320785086.png
 
I just read another - - at least to me - - disturbing fact about the late Senator Stennis. During the infamous Emmit Till lynching trial in Mississippi trial in 1955, it was leaked to the press that Emmitt Till's estranged father, Louis Till, had been tried, convicted and hanged for rape and murder while in military service in Italy in 1945. (The fact of Louis Till's conviction and hanging was not discussed in the current movie, by the way.) The Louis Till file was classified. Even Emmit Till's mother had not been told by the Army of the details of Louis Till's conviction.

I have read that the two US Senators from Mississippi, one of whom was John Stennis, are suspected to have been the ones who arranged to have the Army leak Louis Till's file to the press in order to discredit the NAACP and cast aspersions on Emmit Till's character. I vote for re-naming the USS Stennis.
I didn't know that. It made me look for info and I found this article. It's a long read but interesting. It also looks like Louis Till's conviction was not all cut and dry.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a48989/black-and-white-case/
 
I didn't know that. It made me look for info and I found this article. It's a long read but interesting. It also looks like Louis Till's conviction was not all cut and dry.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a48989/black-and-white-case/
Not too many facts about the Louis Till court martial are available. Suffice it to say, that the system was heavily stacked against a black soldier being acquitted by a court martial in the ETO in 1945. But the facts of his case were highly prejudicial to the Emmitt Till case and in no way probative pr relevant to that case and should not have been leaked to the press by the Army.

After the murder trial of Emmit Till's alleged killers in Tallahatchi County (where his body was found), a grand jury in Lefore County (where his abduction occurred) was convened to consider kidnapping charges (the two men had already confessed to kidnapping), but the grand jury failed to indict. The leaking of the story about Louis Till's hanging may have affected that grand jury proceeding.
 
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