The dreaded NWL .....

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by buff81, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. buff81

    buff81 Moderator 10-Year Member

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    ...... or is it?

    Reading various posts over the past few days, it seems as though there is a lot of confusion regarding the NWL.
    Understandable.
    There are 2 uses of the acronym, NWL, which adds to the confusion.

    1) The use of 'NWL' in the 3Q letter
    Everyone who is 3Q'd goes on a NWL.
    Yes, even those of you who have your appointment right now, were on the NWL.
    Once the MOC nomination slates come in, the obvious slate winners are pulled off and given offers.
    Also, once they determine who gets the Service Connection slots (Presidential, ROTC etc), those are pulled off also and given offers.

    2) The use of 'NWL' in the US Code (Title 10)
    Once the slot winners from MOC and Service Connected noms are determined, the class is not full. MOC and Service Connected slots add up to about 841 slots.
    The US Code allows for 2 additional ways to fill the class.
    a) By law, WP must appoint 150 from the NWL. These are called 'Qualified Alternates.' These 150 are those that are 3Q'd with MOC noms who didn't win their MOCs' slates.
    Since the NWL is one big competitive slate, everyone is listed top to bottom by WCS ( this is why you continue to update your file until the file completion deadline at the end of FEB).
    Therefore, the top 150 by WCS, non MOC slot winners, get the NWL slots.
    b) WP can then throw out the WCS and appoint candidates who help them round out the class. This must be done at a ratio of 3:1 MOC noms to Service Connected noms. These are called 'Additional Appointees'

    This is my best understanding of the NWL.
    I seriously doubt that the selection of appointees happens in this exact order. It is too complex of a shell game determining which slot a candidate gets.
    If you have multiple noms, you may think you have X slot, but you may not. Some of these slots are not determined for awhile.

    To conclude -
    being on the NWL is a good thing. It means you are 3Q'd.
    If you don't get a MOC slot, then you can compete for one of the 150 NWL slots as a Qualified Alternate.
    If you don't get a MOC or Service Connected slot, then you can be appointed as an Additional Appointee.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    I posted this 2 years ago and thought I'd repost in case it might help clear some confusion about the NWL. Hopefully, it didn't add to the confusion!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  2. williamsdr3

    williamsdr3 Member

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    Thx much. What is the difference between having a nom and winning the slate (with a nom)? I havent figured out the slate thing yet.
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    A slate is the set of (usually 10) people who have been nominated to one of the academies by a MOC. Those 10 people are in competition with one another and the "winner" gets the appointment. Perhaps a bit simplified but this model works. It does not preclude someone who did not win the slate from getting an appointment as buff81 describes. You should read the stickies on the nominations forum. Everyone shouod have a firm grasp on noms and slates at this point in the cyclel
     
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  4. williamsdr3

    williamsdr3 Member

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    Thank you Kinnem. My son is a junior so we are at the beginning of this cycle. We will go through the nominations forum materials in detail.
     
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  5. Monarchs'19

    Monarchs'19 Member

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    @buff81 , I must say that this is the BEST explanation of NWL. Thanks.
    • Today, my DS received a letter titled "Candidate File Qualified". Is it 3Qed?
    • It also mentions about getting placed in the NWL.
    • My Son heard from the congressman office that he is an "alternate Nominee" for the West Point.
    • That's mean he will fall in the category 2a as you outlined above (with 150) - right?
    Question I have is: those 150 appointments out of NWL are made between Feb 26 - May 1st? Or after May 1st?
     
  6. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Considered until the R-Day
     
  7. DrMom

    DrMom 5-Year Member

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    I was thinking about this...and I think it is the inclusion of "Wait List" in "National Wait List" that throws off the novice applicant and his or her parents.
    At most schools including the Naval Academy "Wait List" means you are not selected and are unlikely to come off the list and be offered admissions.

    At USMA, NWL means that the candidate is in the very small pool of people who are fully qualified and have a nomination. The NWL is West Point admissions actual pool of students who will be admitted.

    The application deadline is still almost three weeks from now. The notification deadline really isn't until the last week of April/1May. Even then there is shuffling as people break legs or get appointments to other service academies.

    The NWL is a great place to be this time of year.
     
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  8. buff81

    buff81 Moderator 10-Year Member

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    - Candidate File Qualified means he is 3Q'd.

    - Being an Alternate Nominee is not the same as being a Qualified Alternate. An Alternate Nominee has to do with your MOCs slate. Your MOC has submitted 1 of 3 possible slates that he can submit 1) Competitive Slate (candidates are ranked on the slate top to bottom according to WCS 2) Principal Slate with Competing Alternates (MOC chooses slot winner and the other 9 are ranked in order of WCS 3) Principal Slate with Numbered Alternates (MOC ranks his nominees top to bottom however he/she wishes). Your MOC did either #2 or #3. He/she choose the slot winner and other 9 are considered alternates.

    - The 150 from the NWL are chosen after the MOC slot winners have been determined. Hard to say when that happens as some slates can be held up for awhile as the slot winner may have a medical DQ the hasn't been resolved yet or they are not yet 3Q'd or some other issue that prevents the slot winner from being determined.
     
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  9. Goat 965

    Goat 965 Member

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    Kinnem, I struggled with the slate thing last year, when DD was applying; not sure I ever really got my arms around it. Doesn't the number of current cadets that a MOC has enrolled also play into it?
     
  10. smur17

    smur17 Member

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    Does anyone know if the Feb-Mar time frame is where most of the MOC slates are evaluated or is that where the NWL is evaluated? I am on the NWL but my MOCs have said their slates have not been evaluated not.
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    They can have up to five at any academy, including the one on deck. SO if they have multiple openings because they have fewer than 5 then they can nominate multiple slates. The slates still work the same way, there are just more of them.
     
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Most folks hear about an appointment in Feb and March. Some will be earlier and some later. EVERYONE who is 3Q with a nom is on the NWL. People come off the NWL as they are appointed. Once all MOC appointments are resolved then the top 150 are selected from the NWL by law.
     
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  13. nate1192

    nate1192 Member

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    Does your MOC usually tell you when you receive the principal nomination? My MOC only told me that I received a nomination. Thank you for your help
     
  14. buff81

    buff81 Moderator 10-Year Member

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    That is for the MOC to decide, so no one here can say.

    Could be that your MOC submitted a Competitive slate and therefore doesn't know who the #1 is on his/her slate. That is for WP to decide.
     
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  15. Susan707

    Susan707 Member

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    2) & 3) confuse me sometimes and I went back and actually read the law. In 2), the MOC picks the winner, by law (32 CFR something) if that person is 3Q'd they get an appointment to the applicable SA. For 3), assuming the person ranked 1st is 3Q'd, do they get a nomination or does the SA get flexibility in who to give an appointment to? I'm a bit confused as to who is required to get or who gets to choose to get the appointment for 3).
     
  16. Susan707

    Susan707 Member

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    I miss-typed, I tried to edit, see my corrections in bold:

    2) & 3) confuse me sometimes and I went back and actually read the law. In 2), the MOC picks the winner, by law (32 CFR something) if that person is 3Q'd they get an appointment to the applicable SA. For 3), assuming the person ranked 1st is 3Q'd, do they get a appointment or does the SA get flexibility in who to give an appointment to? I'm a bit confused as to who is required to get or who gets to choose who receives the appointment for 3).
     
  17. DrMom

    DrMom 5-Year Member

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    OK...so if there is a principal nominee, that person gets the appointment if he or she is 3Q.
    However, many MOCs will just submit their top 10 and let the academy pick.

    So, it is ok to be confused, there is no one standard practice.

    If you are 3Q with a nomination, you are in the pool of people who are eligible to be selected. Recently that is about 1200 out of about 2200.

    It is hard to wait. It will get harder to wait as the weeks roll into mid April. The kids are now Schroedinger's Cadet Candidate. You simply won't know for certain until something arrives at the house or on the portal or the MoC calls. The only thing that is certain is that you will know before 1 May--and even then there is the rare candidate who is expecting to go to an AOG funded prep program who suddenly gets admitted. Right @onepercenter2021 ?????

    For as hard as it is to wait, think of everyone waiting to hear from other highly selective universities, they often won't know until mid-March or early April. There are no details shared about those processes. It is just a waiting game.

    Don't let the fact that you have learned so much about the process and are witnessing rolling admissions get into your head. Focus on helping your kid control what he or she can: becoming 3Q with a nom. Once that is done, the job is only to enjoy senior year and enjoy one another. You will miss these days and this routine come August when the dust settles and he is in his happy new life as a cadet--and you are learning to grocery shop and cook for a slightly lonelier dinner table.
     
  18. Monarchs'19

    Monarchs'19 Member

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    1. I was wondering if MoC knows the WCS when they are interviewing a candidate for the nomination?
    2. If answer to #1 is yes, then I will guess it will be easier for the MoC to pick a candidate with the top WCS as a slate winner and rest of the candidates as an alternate nominee.
    3. If answer to #1 is no, then how MoC decides the slate's winner?
    4. Also, is it possible that a candidate with the highest WCS (top candidate in the district with highest WCS according to the West Point), does not win the MoC slate? What could be those reasons?
     
  19. cptenca

    cptenca Member

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    You seem to be asking about a slate where the MOC picks a principal or numbers their slate. If that is the case then your answers are:
    1. No
    2.N/A
    3.Any criteria the MOC wishes: height, weight, alphabetical, $ contributions, merit, ACT scores,.
    4.Yes, MOC picked who they wanted or highest WCS won a different slate.
     
  20. SY96

    SY96 Member

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    Answer #1 is no. That info is not shared with the MOC. Furthermore, the MOC does not decide who wins the slate. That is up to USMA admissions (assume this is the highest WCS on the slate who is 3Q). The only exception is if the MOC uses principal or principal with alternate method of submitting the slate. Not sure how your MOC does it, but 70% submit a "competitive" slate and leave it 100% up to the Academy whom to choose. If the slate is submitted with a designated principal nominee, then WP must accept that nominee if he/she is qualified, regardless of whether this principal nominee has the highest WCS.
    Poke around on this forum and you will find much more on this.
     
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