The Military Prep School Scam

iceman2018 said:
I don't think you can discredit a Hall of famer and say such things in his face unless you have an achievement that is as noteworthy.
It's akin to walking up to a highly decorated veteran and say his medals or ribbons don't mean anything.
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And yet we do it to elected officials, CEOs and foreign leaders all the time. Sometimes high school students even feel the need to argue with grown-ups. Imagine that.
 
iceman2018 said:
I don't think you can discredit a Hall of famer and say such things in his face unless you have an achievement that is as noteworthy.
It's akin to walking up to a highly decorated veteran and say his medals or ribbons don't mean anything.

Christcorp, MJ is a living legend bar none. Except for his stint with the wizards, his competitive fire was unmatched.
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I don't think LITS is discrediting Gretzky, just has a different perspective on the career of a player from a different era.

Personally, I think Magic Johnson was actually a better all around player and the popular debate would have been fiercer if he didn't retire so young. And before anyone goes off about Michael as a defensive player, let me remind you that Michael played 1 position. Magic Johnson actually played all 5 at one time or another in the NBA, including the clinching game of a NBA championship at Center (a 6' 9" guy playing center???) when Kareem was out with a bum ankle. He didn't let playing with a lesser cast hold him back. He made everyone around him better. Not sure if I could say the same about MJ.

Plus I think the non-sporting life of this Johnson is every bit as good as any all-star out there. And I'm having a hard time finding an all-star role model in the NBA these days.
 
iceman2018 said:
I don't think you can discredit a Hall of famer and say such things in his face unless you have an achievement that is as noteworthy.
It's akin to walking up to a highly decorated veteran and say his medals or ribbons don't mean anything.
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You might want to re-think that comparison.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Oh I know who "The Great One" was. I still say he played in a slower league. He played before curved blades. No one touched him, not because he was untouchable, but because if they did, they had their clocks cleaned by his protection.

The same thing is true in baseball. Would Babe Ruth dominate in 2013? No.

Yes, Gretzky was good in his time. That didn't make him cool, just good.
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LITS is absolutely correct - no way Babe Ruth would dominate in 2013. He wouldn't hit better than .225 or knock in more than 13-14 homers, even though the right field wall at the new Yankee Stadium is 5-9 feet closer to home plate than the House That Ruth Built.

Still, not too shabby for a 118 year old.
 
Haha, I'll take a right fielder who can throw to home in Forbes Field!

It's just a different game now. Hockey players are stronger, faster, better conditioned, have advanced gear, better sticks, better training etc.

Baseball is the same way. Each year players refine the sport, different pitches, faster pitches, faster running, more coordinated plays etc.

Gordie Howe, Babe Ruth, (my grandfather's favorite) Ralph Kiner, Roger Staulbach... all would have issues now, UNLESS they were as advanced as the current players, or would they just be normal?
 
One has to assume that whatever made players great 20 or 50 or 80 years ago would probably make them great today. As they progressed in their athletic lives, they would have adapted to what is needed today to be great.

It's like people saying, "If I were applying to X school today, I'd never get in" when they did get in to that very school X years ago. At that time, they were the cream of whatever class. If they were that age today, they probably would be cream of that class.

There may be differences b/t yesterday and today about what is required to be excellent, but I'd be surprised if, for example, George Washington was born today that he wouldn't become a great leader when he became an adult.

I realize there would be some exceptions. But I think that what makes people "great" at what they do will make them "great" in whatever era they live.
 
usna1985 said:
One has to assume that whatever made players great 20 or 50 or 80 years ago would probably make them great today. As they progressed in their athletic lives, they would have adapted to what is needed today to be great.

It's like people saying, "If I were applying to X school today, I'd never get in" when they did get in to that very school X years ago. At that time, they were the cream of whatever class. If they were that age today, they probably would be cream of that class.

There may be differences b/t yesterday and today about what is required to be excellent, but I'd be surprised if, for example, George Washington was born today that he wouldn't become a great leader when he became an adult.

I realize there would be some exceptions. But I think that what makes people "great" at what they do will make them "great" in whatever era they live.
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I agree in part with this.... but it assumes sports don't evolve. "Boom Boom" Geoffreon invents the slap shot with a straight wood stick. Would he succeed and a day with hi-tech sticks, curved blades and wrist shots? No idea. The game is faster. Guys are mobile. Even within the last 10 years, some players body-types have fallen out of favor. Instigator rules hurt enforcers, so you have less guys there just to fight.

I agree that something made them great, but have we ever thought that maybe there are countless people today, NOT playing, but that could have played 100 years ago, when it was a part time gentleman's game? Maybe Babe Ruth would be an every day guy, not a 6'4" beast. Maybe guys who don't play now, because they wouldn't make it, would have been the super stars of 1935.

If you watch old games v. new, you know it's a totally different world now but it would be interesting to see if the greats were timeless, or just timely..
 
usna1985 said:
One has to assume that whatever made players great 20 or 50 or 80 years ago would probably make them great today. As they progressed in their athletic lives, they would have adapted to what is needed today to be great.

It's like people saying, "If I were applying to X school today, I'd never get in" when they did get in to that very school X years ago. At that time, they were the cream of whatever class. If they were that age today, they probably would be cream of that class.

There may be differences b/t yesterday and today about what is required to be excellent, but I'd be surprised if, for example, George Washington was born today that he wouldn't become a great leader when he became an adult.

I realize there would be some exceptions. But I think that what makes people "great" at what they do will make them "great" in whatever era they live.
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LineInTheSand said:
I agree in part with this.... but it assumes sports don't evolve. "Boom Boom" Geoffreon invents the slap shot with a straight wood stick. Would he succeed and a day with hi-tech sticks, curved blades and wrist shots? No idea. The game is faster. Guys are mobile. Even within the last 10 years, some players body-types have fallen out of favor. Instigator rules hurt enforcers, so you have less guys there just to fight.

I agree that something made them great, but have we ever thought that maybe there are countless people today, NOT playing, but that could have played 100 years ago, when it was a part time gentleman's game? Maybe Babe Ruth would be an every day guy, not a 6'4" beast. Maybe guys who don't play now, because they wouldn't make it, would have been the super stars of 1935.

If you watch old games v. new, you know it's a totally different world now but it would be interesting to see if the greats were timeless, or just timely..
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Wholeheartedly agree. That is why the players I admire the most in sports were also great leaders which translates very well from era to era.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I agree in part with this.... but it assumes sports don't evolve. "Boom Boom" Geoffreon invents the slap shot with a straight wood stick. Would he succeed and a day with hi-tech sticks, curved blades and wrist shots? No idea. The game is faster. Guys are mobile. Even within the last 10 years, some players body-types have fallen out of favor. Instigator rules hurt enforcers, so you have less guys there just to fight.

I agree that something made them great, but have we ever thought that maybe there are countless people today, NOT playing, but that could have played 100 years ago, when it was a part time gentleman's game? Maybe Babe Ruth would be an every day guy, not a 6'4" beast. Maybe guys who don't play now, because they wouldn't make it, would have been the super stars of 1935.

If you watch old games v. new, you know it's a totally different world now but it would be interesting to see if the greats were timeless, or just timely..
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You DO know your hockey with your Bernie "Boom Boom" Geoffrion reference -- very nice indeed. Have you thought of changing your moniker to "Line in the Ice"? :wink:

My brother had a book of "Early NHL Heroes" when we were kids and I think Bernie BBG, Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, etc. were featured. My all time favorite hockey nickname (but then I am a Bruins fan) was Mel "Sudden Death" Hill (also in the book).
 
Old time hockey?...

Eddie Shore?...

I don't want any of that stinkin' root beer.
 
AcademyFriend1 said:
You DO know your hockey with your Bernie "Boom Boom" Geoffrion reference -- very nice indeed. Have you thought of changing your moniker to "Line in the Ice"? :wink:

My brother had a book of "Early NHL Heroes" when we were kids and I think Bernie BBG, Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, etc. were featured. My all time favorite hockey nickname (but then I am a Bruins fan) was Mel "Sudden Death" Hill (also in the book).
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Boom Boom's grandson, Blake, went to my school in Nashville (he was a kindergarden, I was a 4th grader).

I grew up a Penguins fan (born in PA), but when the Predators came to Nashville (I was there for the inaugural game, Oct. 10, 1998), I am a Preds fan for life.

I'm a big Shea Weber fan, but I really think Colin Wilson is going to be something special and if Craig Smith can get some consistency, he's going to be good. Of course, who can't love Pekka Rinne?
 
AcademyFriend1 said:
You DO know your hockey with your Bernie "Boom Boom" Geoffrion reference -- very nice indeed. Have you thought of changing your moniker to "Line in the Ice"? :wink:

My brother had a book of "Early NHL Heroes" when we were kids and I think Bernie BBG, Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, etc. were featured. My all time favorite hockey nickname (but then I am a Bruins fan) was Mel "Sudden Death" Hill (also in the book).
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Now can you find the name of a Boston Bruin who played with the "Coast Guard Cutters" of the Eastern Hockey League in the 1940s?

I once had a chance to win a Cutters jersey on ebay, but it went for $4,000+. I tried to figure out who would take it from me.... hoping it was someone who would love it as much as I would...

and figured out it was our Coast Guard HQ hockey team's goalie, a CWO from Maryland who bid against my dad (it was going to be a Christmas gift).

Anyway, after cursing him out on office communicator IM, he actually had it, and other things in the estate sale framed, and brought them to the Coast Guard Commandant's Cup (a USCG hockey tourney I used to play in) so we could all see it. It was very cool. If I couldn't get it, I'm happy he did.

And if you don't know who hockey people love the game, check out the Bruin's national anthem last night. I got a little choked up when i listened.
 
I don't know if you've seen "Goon" yet, but it is an instant classic. It's a modern day "Slapshot", which one distracting character they could have done without.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Now can you find the name of a Boston Bruin who played with the "Coast Guard Cutters" of the Eastern Hockey League in the 1940s?

I once had a chance to win a Cutters jersey on ebay, but it went for $4,000+. I tried to figure out who would take it from me.... hoping it was someone who would love it as much as I would...

and figured out it was our Coast Guard HQ hockey team's goalie, a CWO from Maryland who bid against my dad (it was going to be a Christmas gift).

Anyway, after cursing him out on office communicator IM, he actually had it, and other things in the estate sale framed, and brought them to the Coast Guard Commandant's Cup (a USCG hockey tourney I used to play in) so we could all see it. It was very cool. If I couldn't get it, I'm happy he did.

And if you don't know who hockey people love the game, check out the Bruin's national anthem last night. I got a little choked up when i listened.
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You got me on Bruins player who played for the Cutters -- wow, the jersey must have been spectacular.

Re: the Bruins anthem, me too -- I would have tried to post a picture of the "Boston Strong" 617 area code on this thread, but my tech skills don't go that far.

I agree with your assessment of the Predators -- lots of interesting talent, there. You might want to dust off your Penguins pennant this year, though, they look awfully good (and now they've added Iginla).

Visited Pittsburgh for the first time for the Frozen Four this weekend. Amazing, amazing sports town. I also very much enjoyed riding the "Incline" (which my Pittsburgh friend described as "a kind of fercolator thingie" in attempting to grasp for the word "funicular").

Guess the hockey lovers really hijacked this thread? Eh, old time hockey.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I don't know if you've seen "Goon" yet, but it is an instant classic. It's a modern day "Slapshot", which one distracting character they could have done without.
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My kids like it -- I'll try firing it up (I am thinking the guy from American Pie is maybe in it?).
 
AcademyFriend1 said:
My kids like it -- I'll try firing it up (I am thinking the guy from American Pie is maybe in it?).
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Here's what you need to do when you watch it.... every "replay" of other games with the characters are based on old actual evens in the NHL.

McSorley high stick chop, Stu Grimson going crazy, Scott Stevens hit on Paul Kariya....

but in the movie, they're just flash backs to things the characters have done... it's pretty cool trying to figure out.

The american pie guy was fine... his friend though, from home, wasn't needed in the movie. Inappropriate, too loud... added nothing to the movie.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Frank "Mr. Zero" Brimsek

http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/Frank_Brimsek.asp

He wasn't the only NHLer on the team. They played where the Coast Guard Yard is, in Curtis Bay, Md.
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Frankie Brimsek, awesome! Also a great nickname. (In that NHL book from my childhood. I also read my brother's copies of "Bobby Orr and the Big Bad Bruins," "The Brothers Esposito," and Derek Sanderson's autobiography, something like "I've Gotta Be Me" -- we went through a serious hockey phase in our family.)

Off to go watch a high school lacrosse game -- thanks for all the excellent hockey talk.
 
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