The "Politics" of Nomination... (A good read)

Your son must be one of the best candidates in your state (now a USNA appointee?).
I agree with you that, as a candidate, I have felt no political influences during the MOC process. The overall process was transparent and straightforward.

I might see your son on I-Day. I still need to deal with my big dilemma associated with "USNA" vs. "USMA" though. :muscles2:
I am sure there are kids who are stellar and right at the top of the list, our son did do well, and was humbled that he had to make the same choice you are making. He decided to put some salt air in his life. ;)⚓
 
No, it does not affect it. The MOC made the decision while in full possession of the powers of the office, and presumably there was no irregularity with the selection process that would cause an investigation of his or her slate. No effect.
Ok so if the nomination was received before the MOC resigned due to indictment, the nomination is still valid ?
 
Nice screen name, WT Door, a classic Yard name.
But is the poster "Quick Acting" ?

quick-acting-wt-doors.jpg
 
I'll just say we have ZE-freaking-RO connections of the political nature or wealth & influence. Son received multiple nominations. While on one hand, it's easy to say that nominations are possibly given to some who don't have quite the qualifications or resume, and that it might have been due to position in society; there's another part of the equation this discussion is putting on "ignore."

Then they have to go put in the work. That is a great equalizer. it also brilliantly exposes inadequacy.

Granted, for some, that is already too late; if they never received the chance to begin with. I'm just saying the pandering and corruption is not without risk. The process did not feel that flawed to me, and FWIW, our DS went through it during High School and then again out of Prep.
 
Our MOC had a military veteran as the " Military and Veterans Needs" adviser. The adviser was a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan (multiple tours) , and part of his job was to interview each and every service academy applicant who was seeking a nom from that MOC. The adviser knew exactly what questions to ask each applicant. DS (now a 1/C) was very impressed with him.
For the record, the MOC who nominated DS was a member of the opposite political party.
 
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I think you'd have to say that legacy does matter to some extent. When you have a family that has 2 - 4 children all make it to service academies that just isn't statistically improbable without an external factor. The candidates may not even realize it. I don't know anymore than that, just an observation.


The article above might give a different perspective on why you see some of these trends. There's a military-civilian divide that exists that on the whole in society that leads children who grew up with some sort of connection to the services to statistically be more likely to serve than their counterparts that don't have that exposure. I'd argue that these trends are more of the influence resulting multiple folks being admitted and serving from the same family, because they grew up with that exposure to the service, lifestyle, the opportunities it entails, and the preparation required to get there then someone coming from a background they have to find the interest and resources to get there on their own.
 

The article above might give a different perspective on why you see some of these trends. There's a military-civilian divide that exists that on the whole in society that leads children who grew up with some sort of connection to the services to statistically be more likely to serve than their counterparts that don't have that exposure. I'd argue that these trends are more of the influence resulting multiple folks being admitted and serving from the same family, because they grew up with that exposure to the service, lifestyle, the opportunities it entails, and the preparation required to get there then someone coming from a background they have to find the interest and resources to get there on their own.
And then there is this👆🏻....If you’ve lived the life as a military child, you have seen the impact of numerous deployments, moved way too many times and attended numerous schools. The challenges are quite different for a child of career military. Yet some still want to commit to that life, still want to serve their country knowing all that they know. They know what to expect since they have lived it and nothing will deter them. Perhaps, in some small way, this is appealing to some SAs? When I asked my DS if he doesn’t get in to the SA will he still want to go into the military? “100%, without a doubt. Will go the ROTC way to achieve my goals.” Love his determination and drive to go after his dream.
 
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I think you'd have to say that legacy does matter to some extent. When you have a family that has 2 - 4 children all make it to service academies that just isn't statistically improbable without an external factor. The candidates may not even realize it. I don't know anymore than that, just an observation.
Why do believe that it is some kind of inappropriate “legacy” resulting in multiple kids from the same family being admitted? Isn’t it more likely that the sibling of a bright, well rounded, athletic service minded young man or woman who earned an appointment would have the same qualities due to the same genetics and upbringing? Also, what is wrong with giving some extra points to the sibling of a successful cadet? The academies are trying to create successful officers. If that sibling did well, that is some evidence that their siblings would also do well.
 
Why do believe that it is some kind of inappropriate “legacy” resulting in multiple kids from the same family being admitted? Isn’t it more likely that the sibling of a bright, well rounded, athletic service minded young man or woman who earned an appointment would have the same qualities due to the same genetics and upbringing? Also, what is wrong with giving some extra points to the sibling of a successful cadet? The academies are trying to create successful officers. If that sibling did well, that is some evidence that their siblings would also do well.
Not so sure. As a dad of 4, one of the things I continually marvel at is the ability of the same two humans to produce drastically different offspring. While similar in some regards, they are all completely different in many ways as well. I actually prefer it that way, though, as parenting wouldn’t be nearly as interesting if they were all exactly alike.
 
Why do believe that it is some kind of inappropriate “legacy” resulting in multiple kids from the same family being admitted? Isn’t it more likely that the sibling of a bright, well rounded, athletic service minded young man or woman who earned an appointment would have the same qualities due to the same genetics and upbringing? Also, what is wrong with giving some extra points to the sibling of a successful cadet? The academies are trying to create successful officers. If that sibling did well, that is some evidence that their siblings would also do well.
I didn't say anything about inappropriate. A previous post asked about the existence of legacy and I just advised that, unless your in a low nomination area, that it's probably likely that legacy plays some part. The definition you provided regarding siblings is the definition of legacy. But again I just made an observation that legacy exists. You decided I viewed it as inappropriate.
Why do believe that it is some kind of inappropriate “legacy” resulting in multiple kids from the same family being admitted? Isn’t it more likely that the sibling of a bright, well rounded, athletic service minded young man or woman who earned an appointment would have the same qualities due to the same genetics and upbringing? Also, what is wrong with giving some extra points to the sibling of a successful cadet? The academies are trying to create successful officers. If that sibling did well, that is some evidence that their siblings would also do well.
I didn't say it was inappropriate. I just made an observation that it appears to exist. The definition you provided regarding siblings and a SA's view is the definition of legacy. But again, you decided I thought it was inappropriate, I never stated that
 
I was only “Quick Acting” if I had to set material condition ZEBRA back in the day. Kudos to you and Capt MJ for the cogent advice and insight provided in these forums. It’s invaluable. All of you keep the USNA forum on course and steaming in the right direction!
 
I didn't say it was inappropriate. I just made an observation that it appears to exist. The definition you provided regarding siblings and a SA's view is the definition of legacy. But again, you decided I thought it was inappropriate, I never stated that
Forgive me for assuming a negative connotation to your use of the term legacy. "Legacy" is one of those buzzwords often used to attack school admission policies, and it is almost always used with a negative connotation.

For example, see this NY Times opinion piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/opinion/sunday/end-legacy-college-admissions.html

I wouldn't say that my verbiage defined legacy - certainly not how legacy is typically used in admissions, anyway. Legacy is a loaded term often meant to imply some unearned advantage based upon family connections and/or money rather than merit. The point I was making is that merit exists where it exists, and it shouldn't be a surprise that if one child of a family demonstrates the merit required to earn an appointment, that other children in the family may demonstrate the same merit. I balk at the use of the term "legacy" because of all the negative connotations associated with its common use.
 
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We are in a blue state and we are a conservative republican family. Nox Vidmate VLC I worried about all things from will he be denied based on his voter registration to do they only take people who have donated to them.

Nominations are not that political. Nearly every MOC has a board made up grads, service members, etc. that will interview the candidates. I have never once heard of a candidate’s or their family’s party affiliation impacting this.
 
I am sorry if I have "riled up" some members. I was just stating my personal experience and reading over a lot of the profiles on these forums. And I am sorry if it works out that there are a lot of 3rd and 4th generation Academy appointments that are talked about on here, but as I said earlier, there are a ton of very highly qualified candidates who get passed over "in order to fill our diversity in a class". This is fine by all standards if those appointed are also very highly qualified candidates. But no one here will tell me that being a "Legacy" candidate does not help with any academy! I know personally three members (one each on each of the MOC Panels) and to a one they say they try and keep politics out of the process, but that it sometimes occurs where a candidate's parents or grandparents will know one or two of the retired or former military members of the panel. And I know the "system", I experienced it while serving that if you have a "Hook" it gets you places in the military. If you have a "Godfather" you can get assignments and promotions to certain fields easier than if you are "joe no body". I am not naïve enough (I watched some of it last year) to think that if mom or dad is a retired O-6 and knows three friends at the Academy son/daughter wants to attend, that those "friends" don't watch out for the application and try and help out. I advanced VERY rapidly, got almost every assignment I desired, and I truly believe it was because I had a senior officer (who let me know he was watching my career with interest) who thought I had something special and looked after me. The ONLY reason I left the service was the opportunity to advance my career in a field I came to be passionate about. There were still quasi political games (even in Civil Service) and it paid to know people higher up, and it is that way in life.

And just for info, the three young people I mentioned earlier were as qualified as anyone, but knew no one in the military, had no relatives who were vets or AD, and two didn't make it. If you look at members here, I am sure they are skewed because non military people don't know about these forums as readily as military people so I admit I could be wrong, but I see a whole lot of senior military people whose family members seem to have a higher rate of acceptance than a no body who applies.

I am not accusing anyone of "playing the system" or "applying undo influence", the military is all about performance and networking, and I am sure those candidates that come from military families do very well, having grown up in that environment, and to a one deserve to be where they are. My only point was to just say IMHO, there is sometimes outside influences in the selection processes and in the military world in general that sometimes gives one candidate a slight edge over another with exactly the same qualifications. There is not much difference in getting a promotion for Civil Service, Military, or Civilian positions, someone has to pick you out of the pack, or ask for you, so our sons and daughters have to live and work in that environment just as we did.

I am sorry for rambling, and I do not mean to irritate anyone, maybe certain MOC panels and Academies have safeguards or policies to limit outside influence, but my personal knowledge (although limited) tells me otherwise. Again, Sorry, but it is just my opinion, I am not saying anyone on these forums has done, is doing, or will do anything not above board and those candidates that get appointed deserve those appointments.

A very large percentage of those who volunteer to serve have parents or siblings who have also served.

The Academies represent this as well.

Legacies are a part of every single university in our Nation.

The Academies represent this as well. But, there are plenty of would-be legacy candidates who do not get appointments.
 
We are in a blue state and we are a conservative republican family. Nox Vidmate VLC I worried about all things from will he be denied based on his voter registration to do they only take people who have donated to them.
Firstly, don’t worry about this. It’s not a thing. Along the same lines that donating, and being the same political party will HELP you receive a nom. The thing that gets the nom, is being a strong candidate. From those selected for a nomination, admissions also has input.

As NavyHoops already stayed, most use a panel consisting of a cross section of people. Simply stated, it would be very, very difficult to be a sub-par candidate, yet receive a nomination. The other thing, is that most MOC’s are not very ‘hands on’. The candidate will likely deal only with a staffer.

In all the years I have been here, and cycles of applications (3) my own boys have been involved in and all their subsequent appointment classmates, I’ve never heard or read of any kind of this collusion.

This isn’t to say that parents don’t think/wonder how their Johnny/Jane didn’t receive an appointment, when xxx did...that does happen every year. But it’s not a case where there is a rotten MOC. It’s more a case of admissions having their own criteria they are meeting for the puzzle they are putting together for that particular years class. And not being privy to that.

DONT worry. Forge ahead with the best application that can be presented. Good
Luck!
 
The Academies represent this as well. But, there are plenty of would-be legacy candidates who do not get appointments.
This was definitely our experience. My son would have been 3rd generation USNA. He had the academics, athletics, and 2 nominations. But we come from a highly competitive area, and he was turned down in May. Fortunately he was accepted at USCGA, and is happy to be there.
 
Nominations are not that political. Nearly every MOC has a board made up grads, service members, etc. that will interview the candidates. I have never once heard of a candidate’s or their family’s party affiliation impacting this.
That person is a spammer - they embedded a link in the quoted text - they've done it in every post they have made
 
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