The Reapplying Club

[flyerdreamer]

I posted this elsewhere as well, but thought I'd repost here with the non-Falcon view for the benefit of the others on the thread. As a parent who took the $8500 FAR (free agent risk) with NWP, I can tell you that as far as I know through the NWP parent network all the non-diversity, non-recruited athlete free agents are still awaiting word on their QNVs. While disappointed, we free agent moms and dads recognize the historical limitations imposed this year and are hopeful USAFA recognizes the extra step these kids took in order to secure an appointment, and how far they've come after 4 months with the Durbecks. If not... well, I don't regret us having chosen this route. It's a wonderful school. Just be aware that going in as a free agent IS a significant risk the next couple of years. *Financial* risk. It was a stretch for my family to finance, but we did so in hopes of ultimately securing an appointment.

 

[falconfamily]

flyerdreamer: You also have a student who is emotionally and academically better prepared to go to what ever college they end up going to.

 

[flyerdreamer]

flyerdreamer: You also have a student who is emotionally and academically better prepared to go to what ever college they end up going to.

Thank you, Falcon. NWP as Free Agent: ~$8500. The amazing person you get back home in December: priceless!

 

[tlangford]

Thank you, Falcon. NWP as Free Agent: ~$8500. The amazing person you get back home in December: priceless!

Thanks NWP mom! Good advice and view for possible free agents!! And it truly does create a NWP family similar to that at the academy!

 

[otterpop]

Hey Ya'll, I also got a TWE while I was out at spring break. I went down and visited BYU's ROTC programs, and I wasn't too impressed with the AIR Force ROTC. I really want to go to the AFA, but alot of my friends are doing the the ARMY ROTC next year. Does it really matter which ROTC I join? My Dad and I believe that doing any ROTC for a year would be better than nothing. Any ideas?

 

[usafa84]

Flyerdreamer,

all the non-diversity, non-recruited athlete free agents are still awaiting word on their QNVs.

I think you hit the nail on the head....these are the same folks who aren't allowed to retake the CFA three times or have their GPA recalculated to ensure their score is just a little bit higher. In fact, a professor at the Naval Academy whose child attends ROTC with my son stated "the academies are no longer proud of their test scores, but of their diversity...the Academies are putting a major focus on diversity and your going to see alot more non-diversified candidates with extremely high qualifications, especially when compared to others, not make the cut." I have more info you want to PM me.

 

[CAmom2015]

Are all the academies pushing the diversity agenda when selecting, equally, or are some academies more notoriously implementing it than others. USNA and AFA more diversified??? Just wondering. Heard on the Navy forum, USNA has a 2 tier academics, to assist those students who are struggling?

 

[akngm]

diversity issue

the Coast Guard Academy is not pushing the diversity issue as much as the other SAs....

 

[RyWalk]

The CGA also has one of the smallest populations, if not the smallest. It seems the bigger schools (AFA, USNA, USMA) care more about diversity

 

[vamom]

Thank you, Falcon. NWP as Free Agent: ~$8500. The amazing person you get back home in December: priceless!

Flyerdreamer....I have a question for you that I hope you don't mind. Here goes:

DS/DD spent $8500 for four months of non-college credit prep time at NWP. Then DS/DD returns home and attends a community college for four months (which for most of these applicants is NOT where they would have attended otherwise, finances notwithstanding, based on their academic backgrounds). If your DS/DD is not admitted to the AFA, he will have lost a year of college credits, spent $8500 and will be an additional year behind in applying for the AFA if that is what they choose to do.

In my mind, that year (given that there is was no appointment to the AFA) , would have been better spent at a solid Plan B university in AFROTC taking a rigorous courseload that mirrors the AFA and then reapply from there.

I'm certainly not trying to be disrespectful or to question the decision that you made for your DS/DD. I realize that everyone has a unique circumstance. I guess I'm trying to understand what the advantage would be of the 4-month NWP over the alternative that I described above. I'm truly curious as to whether I'm missing something here. I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the process and all of the options (pros and cons). This is one that has had me scratching my head since I first learned of NWP on the forum. I would greatly appreciate your viewpoint on this!

I'm asking this regarding the "free agent" situation. I think its more obvious why the Scholarship Option is often selected!

 

[usafacandidate8]

VaMom I see what you are asking here since I asked myself the same questions last year. I went to NWP as a free agent this past year. Even though you do not receive any credits at NWP the four month do prepare you to raise your scores and learn how to study in a rigorous environment. It helps with study habits and does have extreme benefits for academics. Following the 4 months at NWP you go to a community college or ANY other college of your choice. You are not limited to just your cc. There you will then earn credits toward graduating college. So by going to NWP you only lose out on one semester. Besides the other benefits of going there you are not losing that much credit wise.

 

[flieger83]

Cease FIRE!

Whoa!

Okay folks, Flieger83 here...but tonight I'm donning the Moderator Cap.


And while you see that my humorous side is still present, I'm also at this moment contemplating what to do with this thread. It started with a superb idea, and folks really became involved in making it a superb place to discuss "re-applying" and how/why/what to do, etc.

As one that received a TWE in his past, and did the "re-apply" thingie...I'm all in favor of this discussion!

BUT... I'm also here to monitor, see what's being posted, and to "comment" etc., if I see that it's the right thing do to. And I do NOT like the "tack" this is taking.

I doubt ANY of you are directly involved in the admission process, i.e.: none of you work at USAFA/RRS. And if you do NOT, then you really have NO idea what role "diversity" plays in the selection/admission process. I won't attempt to speak for ANY other SA; and they shouldn't really be mentioned here, this is about USAFA.

But I DO work closely with USAFA/RRS...and I "go up" there routinely and I do meet with Col Benyshek and her staff. And I KNOW what role "diversity" plays in the process and it's NOT what I fear is being "intimated" here.

Diversity has a definition completely different from what MOST folks think. And yes, it's viewed in the admission process. But understand one thing: NO candidate my be admitted to USAFA unless they meet the legal requirements for admission. Period, end of discussion.

Now, does that mean that a "diversity" candidate might be selected when another candidate has better scores? Sure it does. Athletes might be selected for that reason, as might whomever the selection board decides upon selecting. But please don't look to "blame" a person/group for something perceived.

At the end of the day, USAFA has a "requirement" to fill their class with the best and the brightest of ALL groups! Does that mean they put up a spreadsheet and say:"We need XX Caucasians, YY African Americans, etc...etc..?" NO! What it does mean is that ALL candidates are viewed/reviewed, etc...etc...and a class is selected. (Heck, USAFA's definition of "diversity" doesn't even focus on ethnicity/race, it's about a LOT more than that. FYI...there are many "Caucasian diversity candidates" in the mix.) That class will be a "mirror" of US society, if at all possible within the bounds of federal law. That's a goal set by the CofStaff, USAF, many years ago, and approved of by the Federal Government.

I share the pain of folks that received a TWE...I've "been there, done that, got the T-shirt...and 4 letters in my memento's box." All that did was make me more determined than ever to gain admission.

So the next year...there was NO way they could turn me down...I did EVERYTHING they could ask for...and the BFE's "rolled" in.

Let's "tone down" the "diversity, what if, etc.," speculation. It has no value as I can see and can really take this SUPERB topic down a "slippery slope" that is not beneficial to our candidates.

Okay...off soapbox.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[vamom]

VaMom I see what you are asking here since I asked myself the same questions last year. I went to NWP as a free agent this past year. Even though you do not receive any credits at NWP the four month do prepare you to raise your scores and learn how to study in a rigorous environment. It helps with study habits and does have extreme benefits for academics. Following the 4 months at NWP you go to a community college or ANY other college of your choice. You are not limited to just your cc. There you will then earn credits toward graduating college. So by going to NWP you only lose out on one semester. Besides the other benefits of going there you are not losing that much credit wise.

Thank you for your reply! And if you rec'd your BFE, CONGRATS! And if you are still waiting, my fingers are crossed for you. I appreciate you taking the time to provide a thoughtful answer to my question!

 

[usafa84]

I find this offensive that you feel to moderate free speech as a constitutional right. This is just my opinion and feel it should be expressed and discussed. I KNOW many on this board feel the same as I, but heaven forbid that we go down the "taboo" path...lets' call a spade a spade!!!

Now, does that mean that a "diversity" candidate might be selected when another candidate has better scores? Sure it does.

Based on a recent study by Rand USAFA is doing the following to increase diversity: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA517324&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

"Affairs provided a paper and the USAFA Cadet Wing Diversity Plan
from October 2007. The diversity plan articulates the superintendent’s
vision and direction regarding increasing diversity in the cadet wing
Service Action Plans 87
and permanent party at USAFA. The following principles guide the
action plan:
• Establish self-sustaining programs that identify diverse candidates.
• Attract highly qualified, diverse candidates to the cadet wing.
• Attract junior enlisted troops with leadership potential.
• Attract applicants with strategic language skills and/or aptitude.
• Attract first generation college/low-income/disadvantaged high
school students.
• Continue to encourage or assist congressional districts with their
nomination efforts.
• Continue an admissions program that gives individualized consideration
to constitutionally permissible diversity factors and
ensures the collection of the diversity-factor data necessary to
analyze the effectiveness of diversity recruiting efforts.
The action plan is grouped into several areas that focus on the following
current initiatives, among others:
• Identifying candidates: Advertise in prominent minority and
urban media outlets and increase emphasis on coordinators who
help identify, mentor, and evaluate diverse candidates.
• Target populations: Expand the Diversity Recruiting Division
and increase cooperative efforts with other Air Force outreach
programs.
• Seminars: Conduct one-week summer seminars between junior
and senior years, develop grassroots information for cadets to use
while at home, and expand the diversity visitation program to
bring applicants to USAFA for a visit, among other efforts.
• Outreach: Conduct recruiting visits targeting high-minorityconcentration
and disadvantaged population centers with recent
graduates; host students and parents or guests for admissions
tours.
• Family, community, and other organizations: Build partnerships
with national and regional organizations.
88 Diversity of Service Academy Entrants and Graduates
• Educational efforts: Conduct congressional workshops and staffer
orientations, build and solidify relations with congressional caucuses,
and organize educator orientations.
• Retention: Develop strategies to promote cadet success, provide
support for cadet groups, and assist cadets of diverse backgrounds
in successfully navigating the demands of USAFA."

Is it working...YES:
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/09/ap-interactive-service-academy-diversity

Pretty impressive slope over the last couple of years!

To the detriment of who: non-diversity, not recruited athletes.

I'm off my soap box, too!

And if this post is deleted...the "cover up begins!!!"

Now, does that mean that a "diversity" candidate might be selected when another candidate has better scores? Sure it does.

 

[flyerdreamer]

Are all the academies pushing the diversity agenda when selecting, equally, or are some academies more notoriously implementing it than others. USNA and AFA more diversified??? Just wondering. Heard on the Navy forum, USNA has a 2 tier academics, to assist those students who are struggling?

The new buzzword "Diversity" is easily misunderstood. These days it can mean religious or ethnic background, sure, but equally it is things as "diverse" as single parent households, military families where dad may be gone half the year on sub duty, or first generation college, or English as a new or second language (Russian immigrants, for instance). Diversity is what it says it is: all kinds of students. I know from the academy talks I give in my hometown, many kids don't know a service academy can be for them, too. I hope that helps explain it.

Editing to add---Ooops I was reading and answering in post order...not trying to "stir the pot."

 

[flyerdreamer]

Flyerdreamer....I have a question for you that I hope you don't mind. Here goes:

DS/DD spent $8500 for four months of non-college credit prep time at NWP. Then DS/DD returns home and attends a community college for four months (which for most of these applicants is NOT where they would have attended otherwise, finances notwithstanding, based on their academic backgrounds). If your DS/DD is not admitted to the AFA, he will have lost a year of college credits, spent $8500 and will be an additional year behind in applying for the AFA if that is what they choose to do.

In my mind, that year (given that there is was no appointment to the AFA) , would have been better spent at a solid Plan B university in AFROTC taking a rigorous courseload that mirrors the AFA and then reapply from there.

I'm certainly not trying to be disrespectful or to question the decision that you made for your DS/DD. I realize that everyone has a unique circumstance. I guess I'm trying to understand what the advantage would be of the 4-month NWP over the alternative that I described above. I'm truly curious as to whether I'm missing something here. I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the process and all of the options (pros and cons). This is one that has had me scratching my head since I first learned of NWP on the forum. I would greatly appreciate your viewpoint on this!

I'm asking this regarding the "free agent" situation. I think its more obvious why the Scholarship Option is often selected!

These are all excellent questions! Feel free to contact me privately for more, but to answer in the simplest way possible: Scores. We needed to raise the SAT/ACT scores. They went up astronomically. Also, it was a way to experience a more intense, high pressure environment that he wouldn't get at a regular college. In the end, it was a calculated risk, I know. At the very least he's walking away with the kind of scores I don't think he'd have gotten with any of the ACT/SAT tutoring programs around here! No matter what happens, more doors have now opened up than were open before.

 

[vamom]

These are all excellent questions! Feel free to contact me privately for more, but to answer in the simplest way possible: Scores. We needed to raise the SAT/ACT scores. They went up astronomically. Also, it was a way to experience a more intense, high pressure environment that he wouldn't get at a regular college. In the end, it was a calculated risk, I know. At the very least he's walking away with the kind of scores I don't think he'd have gotten with any of the ACT/SAT tutoring programs around here! No matter what happens, more doors have now opened up than were open before.

Thank you for your answer! And best of luck with all of your open doors. It is very nice to have choices! Sounds like NWP was a great choice for your DD/DS.

 

[flieger83]

USAFA 84

Nope, I'm not going to "delete" your opinion...that's a "non player" here.

Open, frank, discussion is promoted...I just wanted folks to avoid argument on a "race/ethnicity" area...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[Pima]

I think candidates need to assess their academic background when they make their decisions for that yr as they wait to re-apply.

Flyer stated for them it was a SCORE issue. For many who do not get the prep option it is because academically they were ahead already.

The minute you understand the reason for the existence of prep is the minute you will accept that they were never a candidate for prep.

As much as posters pound into everyone's cranium that prep is not for the 2100 SAT with 5 APs and a 3.75 gpa, there is a always a poster or posters who refuse to acknowledge this fact, mainly in the hopes that prep is their last hope.

You may elect/select/choose to ignore it, but you are not going to find the high scoring SAT/ACT at prep. You are also not going to find the kid who couldn't do a pull up or the run.

It exists to give the candidate that academically shows great promise, but didn't do well on a national test.

Also, if you recall why Falcon was created in the 1st place, you would see it was not created for that candidate, it was created more for the enlisted member to get them back into the academic world. It warped itself into what it is now.

 

[DjSanguine]

As much as posters pound into everyone's cranium that prep is not for the 2100 SAT with 5 APs and a 3.75 gpa, there is a always a poster or posters who refuse to acknowledge this fact, mainly in the hopes that prep is their last hope.

You may elect/select/choose to ignore it, but you are not going to find the high scoring SAT/ACT at prep. You are also not going to find the kid who couldn't do a pull up or the run.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, so please correct me if I totally misinterpreted you, but consider this:

In HS, I had a 2000 SAT, 7 APs (All passing scores), and a 3.9 GPA. I received Foundation Prep. Why? Because I did below average on the CFA. If you're referring to all of the prep schools, then the above statements are false. If you are referring to USAFA Prep only, than completely ignore this post.

Just wanted to clarify