The WAIT LIST

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Murf

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
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Mar 24, 2009
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Well, ... our son got a TWE - but he's been wait listed. Clearly not as disappointing as a rejection, but .....

So, does anyone know how the WAIT LIST "system" works? Is this the same or different than the National Pool?

Thanks,
Murf
:confused:
 
I would believe that the wait list is now what is left, if you will, of the national pool. Whatever remaining appointments went out these past few weeks, were followed by or done at same time, a wait list and then the "no appointment" letters.
My son did receive the wait list letter, dated april 1, received the monday the 5th - only good thing was it did arrive just before he had to return to VMI so he was able to do the directions in the letter. I found it interesting that letter said he had 7 days from date of letter to respond and he received it around noon on the 5th.
The accompanying FAQ's answered it all - with the past weeks' posts on this site I would think that usna is in similiar boat to WP and AF - they have even out x appointments and finding that not as many are being turned down. Given this sense of current circumstances, I did not let my son have much hope that the wait list will be in play in coming weeks.
I know full well that he will keep hope alive until the end tho.
I apologize if this sounds disheartening, just trying to be as honest as I can be.
best wishes to you and yours - larrys mom
 
I have posted about the waitlist on a sticky above. The short version is as follows:

If you're WL'ed, you were very close to being offered an appointment. Whether you get one depends on how many who were offered appointments turn them down.

USNA says they don't rank the WL. Rather, when slots open up, they look at the list and . . . decide. Seriously, I don't know more than that.

The WL is usually about 50-135 people. As they see how acceptances are going, people toward the bottom (yeah, I know, it's not ranked) start getting turndown letters while the most competitive folks get offers of appointment.

Your BGO has zero idea where you stand on the WL. You MAY be able to get some feel for how likely it is that you'll get off the WL by calling CGO. But, it's only an educated guess on USNA's part.

The overwhelming majority of WL folks will hear by mid-May as appointment acceptances are due May 1. There may be some stragglers.

If you are waitlisted, PROCEED WITH PLAN B. If an appointment comes through, great, but don't count on it.
 
Plan B is another service Academy

What if Plan B is another service academy? Since appointments have to be accepted or declined by May 1, and USNA won't notify wait listed appointments until the third week in May...they couldn't then switch their decision could they? Aren't there repercussions?
 
Seems that the CANDIDATE in that position must make a decision, if USNA is really what they want most perhaps discuss with other choice accepting conditionally - if USNA comes thru they would then reverse and decline Plan B. The CANDIDATE could also of course ask for more time from Plan B - other SA. While one could assume that many colleges would understand and perhaps give some, each SA think of themselves as the top choice and have their own class to fill. A SA may wonder Does the CANDIDATE really want to be with us? just a thought
 
If a candidate has been accepted to another Academy (or other college) and waitlisted at USNA; they may in good conscience accept an offer while waiting to get off the waitlist.

For instance, if you are accepted to AFA and USNA is your #1 choice and you are waitlisted on May 1; then accept the AFA appointment. If USNA comes calling on May 28th then simply decline your AFA appointment and go with your #1, USNA.
This is done all the time - even in civilian colleges.
Nothing unethical or dishonorable and there are no repercussions.

You may freely accept a position on the waitlist if offered.
 
If you accept a SA appt, please by all means plan on going- not using it as a "fall back" or holding pattern to get off of another waitlist.

JAM what civilian colleges and what SAs do are two different things entirely.
To "hang onto" an unwanted SA appt in hopes of getting a more desirable one after the deadline is indeed unethical . Not to mention that it harms other students who were hoping for an appointment as well. IMO not a very good way to start off a military career.

As has already been pointed out, if you are waitlisted and then decide to move on with Plan B ( particularly if Plan B is service academy) Move in that direction intentionally. Getting off a SA Waitlist is difficult, not impossible, but difficult. And with the acceptance rates running at such high percentages this year, makes getting off that waitlist even more difficult.

Daughter received more than one appointment and after soul searching turned back the appointments that she really did not think were in line with her longterm goals and desires. By doing so EARLY she allowed others to have the opportunity to attend the SA that was their hearts' desire. She will do the same with the remaining SA appt and ROTC scholarship.

There is somewhat of a "greater good" and "selfless service" at play when considering military service isn't there?
 
JAM what civilian colleges and what SAs do are two different things entirely.
To "hang onto" an unwanted SA appt in hopes of getting a more desirable one after the deadline is indeed unethical . Not to mention that it harms other students who were hoping for an appointment as well. IMO not a very good way to start off a military career.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm. Let's see. Who says anything about "hanging onto" an *unwanted* appointment. We are talking about someone who has an appointment to their second choice and is waiting for an appointment to their first choice.
No one is *harmed* here. If someone is accepted in June off a waitlist and rejects their second choice at that time - another appointment can be offered if that academy desires.

It may be your opinion that this is not a good way to begin a military career but I would counter that why do the SA's have a wait list then?
Most, if not all kids on the wait lists have committed to another school - either academy or civilian. The admissions departments know this and they are run by Commissioned Military Officers.
I can't imagine telling someone to pass on a given appointment while waiting for the slim chance of a wait list to their first choice. What a travesty that would be, to end up with nothing.
I can't imagine telling someone to quit on their dreams when place on a wait list. There is not harm in seeing this through to the end. At least then they won't spend the next 30 years wondering - "what if???"

Futhermore - I am really puzzled by your assertion that it's okay to yank around a civilian school but not a military school. IMO - Ethics and honor should apply to all walks of life - this is not something the Military has a monopoly on.

Finally, congratulations to your daughter. However, her situation is not parallel to the one being discussed.
By your own account she:
turned back the appointments that she really did not think were in line with her longterm goals and desires.
Click to expand...
Good for her and this is what she should do.
I would never advise any candidate to accept more than one appointment at a time. Likewise, I would not advise someone to accept more than one civilian college at a time.
If you misunderstood my previous post, I apologize and I hope I have clarified my position more clearly.
 
JAM
You are certainly entitled to your opinon on the subject. As the spouse of a SA grad and former ROTC PMS, I can tell you that my "opinion" on the subject would reflect a larger view and not just my own.

If a candidate accepts an appointment it should be because the candidate truly has a desire to go there or would be happy attending that academy and not because they are "hoping/waiting" for a better appointment.

If Service Academies were okay with candidates accepting appointments and then turning them down later, I believe that they would not take so seriously the Agreement to Serve contract which candidates are required to sign.

Yes, students get hurt, get in trouble and change their minds prior to and after accepting appointments. However, I think you would find very few candidates who decide to attend academy just because they didnt want to lose an appointment.

Accepting an academy appointment should be done with the intent of attending "that" particular academy come Reporting Day. Unless I am mistaken, my daughter has until May 1st to make a final committment. In reality, she could have held all decisions until May1st. However we decided as you can only accept one school to turn back other decisions early to enhance opportunities for other waiting candidates.

As for the candidate in question, seems like there are several options
(1) plan on attending academy with appt
(2) decline academy appt/ take NROTC ( if offered-) then accept appt if off waitlist, decline NRTOC
(3) plan to attend civilian college, no ROTC , hope to get off waitlist
(4) Reapply to USNA again if not off waitlist

None of these options would impact other students' opportunities at SA appointments or ROTC scholarships.

I dont know how familiar you are with ROTC scholarships and how they work.Even with the tightening budget this year and high level of competitive applications, there is still much more flexibility in the process than the SA appointments.

Again, thank you for offering your opinion
 
I do not wish to argue or get into some confrontational discussion with another member on this topic.

I hope that the candidate will find a solution that is most appropriate to the individual situation.

I wish this candidate and all candidates who are waiting for appointments and have received appointments the very best of luck.
 
As the spouse of a SA grad and former ROTC PMS, I can tell you that my "opinion" on the subject would reflect a larger view and not just my own.
Click to expand...
Have had conversations about this with the Officers in Admissions? In my own personal experience - I can tell you I have never been exposed to the "larger view" that you espouse here.
All of the West Point admissions officers I personally spoke with told me that rejecting a ROTC scholarship at the last minute to accept a last minute West Point offer is perfectly legit.

Yes, there are cadets/mids who got last minute offers and made last minute change of plans. They ran with their offers and did just fine. Of course, the ROTC PMS or Admissions at another Academy would be dissappointed if you rejected them at the last minute. This is natural. However, an 18 year old is on this journey to reach a goal.

This applies to the ROTC scholarship winner who was offered a June appt to USMAPS; The Naval Academy Foundation winner who was specifically told to put down a depost on May 1 at another college because his offer was not confirmed by then, the West Point AOG scholarship winner who was told specifically by West Point admissions to put down a deposit at the ROTC scholarship school because the scholarship was not confirmed by May 1.

If Service Academies were okay with candidates accepting appointments and then turning them down later, I believe that they would not take so seriously the Agreement to Serve contract which candidates are required to sign.
Click to expand...
The Oath is not taken until R-Day. EVERYTHING is conditional until then. In fact, as Maj Belmont pointed out on his post - the ACADEMY can reject your appointment until then.
Prior to that you sign that you INTEND to attend. This is not a lie if you are stuck on a waitlist with little hope of an offer. Life has a way of changing things and these admissions officers know this and even though they want you - they mostly want you to go where you want to go.

My original post on this topic (post #6) was actually a response to OBXMom - post #4.
She noted in a previous post that her son received an appt to USAFA and was waitlisted to USNA. In response to USNA1985's post to accept Plan B while waiting on the waitlist -
OBXMom said:
What if Plan B is another service academy? Since appointments have to be accepted or declined by May 1, and USNA won't notify wait listed appointments until the third week in May...they couldn't then switch their decision could they? Aren't there repercussions?
Click to expand...

Specifically to OBXMom:
There are NO repercussions at all. Your son is free to accept his AFA appointment if he chooses. If he wins an appt to USNA he is free to accept that offer and give a call to USAFA admissions and explain the circumstances. 99% chance his AFA admissions officer would be thrilled for him. Your son has a great opportunity, regardless of where he takes the Oath! Best Wishes to him!

Re Post #10:
I am in full agreement.
 
MURF

My daughter was "wait listed" last year (USNA) at this time (actually closer to May 1). She remained on the list until about the 3rd week of June.

She committed to the Plan B on May 1 and sent in our $100 to save a spot at her second choice school and continued to wait. Her BGO and CGO were in contact on a regular basis but had little to offer on where she stood in line for an appointment.

We continued with our summer plans, just made hotel reservations in booth Annapolis and West Lafayette (Purdue) for the same week. If she didn't get her appointment, she'd head to Purdue and do her orientation and registration on the same day.

The third week of June, USNA called and told her the books were closed and the class of 2013 was filled.

So if you thought the past year was tough, it gets tougher.

Go on with your plans, but keep the first week of July open just in case.
And get your Plan B in order.

From what we understand, there were very few slots left in her class and very few on the "wait list" received appointments.


Good Luck!
 
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