To reapply or not to reapply

HowBoutThemApples

HowBoutThemApples

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Nov 15, 2019
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4/C mid in NROTC here. Absolutely loving it. Great friends, great, small, close-knit unit. Doing a varsity sport, life's good.

But I still have that itch. Not to leave NROTC, but the itch to go to the academy. I want to fly. I want to go to Pensacola really, really bad.

I've heard that if you stay out of trouble at USNA you pretty much guarantee yourself a flight slots and in NROTC I'm not hearing the same. In fact, I'm learning that good grades can get you put on a sub, and after service selection I understand where that sentiment comes from.

I love my unit and my university more than anything else right now. But I feel like I wouldn't be giving myself the best chance to pursue my dream of being a Naval Aviator if I didn't reapply to USNA.

Any advice from any of you blessed with experience would mean the world to me. I'm at a conflict.
 
Reapply if you need to chase “the one that got away.”

If you are offered an appointment down the road, do your comparative analysis and think through the tangibles and intangibles when it’s time. You don’t have to decide today. If you know you will regret not trying again, go for it.

Do the work on getting facts/stats and not just scuttlebutt on aviation selection and the “sub draft.” If you browse these forums, you will also read about sub draft concerns at USNA.

Step back and make sure USNA is what you want in a total perspective assessment, not just service selection concerns. You are barely into NROTC; be sure and give it a fair assessment. Both are challenging and worthy paths. The grass is plenty green where you are too.

You may be behind the timeline if you haven’t applied for your elected officials’ noms yet. You may have service-connected noms you are eligible for, and of course, there is the elusive VP nom. You can also apply for an NROTC nom, so you should be performing at the “super 4/c level.” Be aware there is a cap on the number of appointments nation-wide that can be charged to the NROTC nom authority.

Your DoDMERB exam is good for 2 years. You’ll have to update with a form for any changes in your medical history.

Ensure you are performing well in STEM classes snd USNA-plebe-like courses. Your first semester college grades will be important as a college re-applicant.

Be sure to read the USNA Admissions re-applicant pages.

Keep us posted.
 
Plenty of NROTC MIDN get flight slots. I know several personally. As Capt MJ pointed out, sub drafts occur at the Academy too. If your are a Marine option you can get a guaranteed flight slot as early as sophmore year. I don't know how it works for Navy options. You should discuss the path with your NROTC advisor along with Capt MJ's other excellent suggestions. It's not uncommon for folks to forego reapplying to stay with their NROTC unit, but you have plenty of time to decide once ab appointment is in hand.
 
Definitely reapply because if you get an appointment down the line then you can make a decision then to either accept or deny.

I did NROTC for two years and absolutely loved every second of it. Leaving was hard for me, but I am lucky to still be in contact with the great midshipmen that I met during my time in ROTC. Both paths require you to do well to get the path you want. Sure it may be "easier" to get an aviation slot from the academy but you are sure going to have to work to do well here. In NROTC it is not true that if you do well you will get "sub" drafted. Although I was in the process of getting drafted it is entirely different then you may perceive and at the end of the day going submarines or surface warfare (nuclear) are fantastic paths for Naval Officers.

For me restarting at the Naval Academy is the best decision I have made in my life simply because I wanted it so badly. However, if I was not so lucky to receive an appointment to the academy I would have been proud and honored to commission at the university I attended previously. Each path is what YOU make of it. Put in the work, bring home the grades, and you will come to see that things will start falling in line.

Best of luck and if you need any help or have any questions let me know.
 
Great advice already from those that know. I’ll add something that is, so far, unique to this years ‘22 service assignment: COVID. I attended a summer training, and this was discussed. The head of USNA’s service assignment spoke specifically to the ‘sub piece’…paraphrasing ‘a very large percentage of our sub select comes from hands on experience’. I am recalling something like 80-85 pct. He stated that people have been on a boat. People have been on a plane. But people haven’t been on a sub. And it’s getting them in there and seeing the neat gadgets and radars, meeting the community, experiencing the sub, that gets them excited for service requesting subs. Makes sense to me!

Guess what? No opportunity for that hands on experience for ‘22 (for the most part…) due to cancelled trainings due to Covid (additionally, another whole class of Mids missed that opportunity through PROTRAMID changing from 3/C to 2/C years). Resulting in a shortage of people requesting subs…and a need to recruit (“draft”). While this is a USNA assignment point, it would make sense that it would be similar for NROTC people selecting subs.

Point is this: hopefully assignment for ‘22 is an anomaly…trainings get back to ‘normal’, and this sub assignment piece isn’t as complicated. Although it certainly can be…no one has a crystal ball 🔮….but for sure there are abnormal/unusual forces out there this year with sub assignment. And it is not specific to NROTC.

I read here that a high percentage of NROTC assignments that happened recently didn’t get their first choice. I also read here that other units DID have a high percentage getting their first choice. I have also read here that not all NROTC assignments have happened. So overall it may not be as it appears thus far. USNA’s assignment is on November 18. But if you are making your choice solely based upon assignments this year, imo, don’t. Look at other years. And if you are making your choice solely bc USNA has less of a ‘sub draft? Don’t. Bc it’s happens there, too. We shall see in a few more weeks!!
 
I am in the same boat. Minus the NROTC part. My university has a lot to offer but I still have that burning fire in my mind to attend the Naval Academy. I am reapplying to the Naval Academy and also reapplying for the NROTC scholarship at my university. All I can do at this point is put my best foot forward and wait until I have to make a decision.
 
Going to add on a bit to what fullspeedahead said, if you truly believe your heart and soul should be at USNA then reapply. I'm currently a multi-engine instructor pilot in NAS Corpus and can confirm there are PLENTY of NROTC grads that come through our program.

The scuttlebutt at USNA "getting good grades = guaranteed flight spot" is exactly that, scuttlebutt. I know plenty of my classmates who were average students and ended up getting NFO instead of pilot, conversely I know many folks who did great academically and got nuke drafted (sub/nuke swo). If there's anything I've learned after going through USNA and my career thus far, don't try to game the system. Do your best and let the chips fall where they may, go in with a good attitude and I promise it'll all work out.
 
My son missed out for c/o '25 due to a lack of nomination to complete his LOA. He decided to go for NROTC at his local college of choice to see how he likes life as a midshipman as well as to try and get a chance at a nomination from the unit.

He has just finished up his c/o '26 app, and is scheduled for his BGO interview this weekend. He definitely wants to give it another shot after coming so close last cycle.

With that said, he is also going for an NROTC scholarship just in case, because he does like the school he is at, and really enjoys his NROTC unit.

Bottom line? It doesn't hurt to always keep your options open. You don't have much to lose to apply.
 
Absolutely not true that USNA mids are guaranteed a flight contract if they meet the basic qualifications. Every year there are some mids who are in good standing who meet the medical qualifications and have the right ASTB scores who don’t get it, because the needs of the Navy take priority and often more people select aviation than there are available slots.

I would theorize that if you are competitive enough to get Aviation at the Academy, you would also be competitive for it through ROTC. I really don’t think that service selection should be the motivation. If you reapply it should be because you’d rather have the Academy experience, which has its own ups and downs. The Naval Academy is great but you’re also very fortunate to be where you are now. Being happy in your unit and your college is a huge deal. Conversely, there’s a saying that the Academy is a great place to be from, but not a great place to be.

Doesn’t hurt to apply this cycle just so you have the option, but make this decision carefully with regard to the drastic difference in lifestyle. The grass often seems greener on the other side.
 
I was in your same shoes. I was in a SSMP as a 4/C at a maritime academy (pretty much ROTC but you get a USNR commission instead of a USN one). I was doing well academically and in the unit, but I still wanted to go to Annapolis. So, I decided to reapply. My Chain of Command was extremely supportive. It ended up working out and I eventually graduated and got a Navy Pilot slot. @Kierkegaard hit it right on the money. Usually more people want aviation than what the Navy calls for. There were also nuke draft years when I went to schools and did see some with good grades get subs. As previously said, absolutely do not game the system. So many factors out of your control go into selection.

There are two things I do believe USNA does give an advantage on: access and resources.

Access: USNA has an internal service assignment process. They are given numbers by Big Navy and then they assign to meet those numbers. You are exposed to senior and junior officers of all warfare communities. Forming relationships with those of your desired warfare community shows interest. Interest is a big consideration. Most communities have some type of socials throughout the year and if you show face, people will remember. They will put a face to a name when your package comes up. Knowing someone is motivated can help one overcome a less than stellar record.

Resources: USNA has some trainings that are unique to the Academy. One that comes to mind is Powered Flight. You learn to fly and then solo a plane in 10 flights. Intense, but a great time and a great preview of what flight school is like. Additionally, USNA has a clinic, flight docs on staff, and Walter Reed close by. I came in below SNA vision standards and USNA allowed me to get PRK on the government's dime. I also needed a waiver for my flight physical (childhood asthma). Having flight docs on staff and Walter Reed for testing made the process a whole lot easier.

I think the big question you need to ask yourself is this: Is going to USNA worth sacrificing your current situation? That is a question that only you can answer. I reapplied because my answer to that question was a yes. It made sense for me personally and circumstantially. If you think it does for you too, then reapply. If not or you don't get in, like @pknguyen44 said, ROTC still can land you in Pcola (no pun intended). You get the exact same commission and treatment that USNA grads get.
 
Nothing is guaranteed. There is a rack-and-stack formula for calculating "aviation points" that USNA uses (i.e. do VTNA, major in Aero, etc. and you get points that make you "more competitive" for aviation) that puts some things in your control and might make you feel better about service assignment if you hit all the checkboxes.

Some things are still out of your control. You still might end up on the movement order to D.C. or at a SARB, and you still might end up not getting aviation.

There is no way to guarantee a service assignment for USN. If you want a guarantee, USMC Air can give you one, but that's a different path.

Here's a brief I found on the internet: https://www.usna.com/file/2020-pcoc/Updated-2020-Parents-Club-Service-Assignment-Brief.pdf

Agree with above--access and resources at USNA are far above your average ROTC unit. Not just 1 or 2 aviators in a small Naval Science department; between company officers, instructors, and military professors, there's tons, from junior officers to senior officers with command experience. Most, if not all, platforms represented. VTNA ground school during the academic year is a good opportunity to get your feet wet with academics. I've met many flight attrites, apparently the academics bite if you're not careful or party a little too hard.
 
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