Totally new to ROTC; please advise

I am in the same position as you are. I love the Liberal Arts. I went to Georgetown SFS in Qatar this winter and loved it. Princeton is fantastic. A few of my professors from school went there, as did a handful of seniors when I was a Freshman.
 
theagentofchaos,

I just went through this process with my DS, applying to ivys for ROTC and SAs. I totally agree with Just_A_Mom and others about the arbitrary nature of this process. My advice to you is to visit a bunch of schools and apply to them ALL (unless your visit clearly rules them out). Also apply for all ROTC scholarships and all SAs. You will find that there is so much involved here that has ZERO to do with your qualifications.

For example, if you do not receive a nomination to an SA, you won't gain admission. You may also have your heart set on Schools 1, 2, 3, and 4 but will receive a scholarship offer to school 5. You cannot control any of this, except to cast your net broadly to reduce risk (although you may be able to transfer at a later point).

If you haven't already, you should definitely attend the Princeton admissions program (the one where an admissions officer gives a speech to prospective students). Of all the presentations from the ivys, the Princeton admissions program was by far the best. The main takeaway from this program is that you will be surprised to learn how many perfect SAT scores there are out there.

The most important thing you will learn in ROTC or in an SA is leadership and self-discipline. These are probably the MOST important things you can learn at this stage in your life, because they will guide and follow you your entire life in any career path.

Jcleppe's point about education is a very good one. Having an ivy education will help with your first job, but only your first job. Everything after that hangs on performance. Believe it or not I have seen most of the ivy folks in my profession (law) fall on their face, but the hungrier folks from po-dunk Univ. do better. But if you are hungry and come from an ivy school, you'll excel. Also, most of the US State Dept. jobs to go to the ivy/tier 1 schools.

Also, just know that none of the ivys hand out merit-based scholarships (only need-based). You should also have a set of schools where you can access merit-based. Your National Merit Scholarship might obviate this.

Bottom line, after looking at all of the Tier 1 schools, my hunch is that my DS will choose West Point over ALL other "tier 1" schools (DS did get "dinged" from one of the ivy schools already). We'll see.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the ivys or JHU (I've been on the road of late, but should be able to respond next week).

patentesq
 
I have taken the SAT (800 Critical Reading, 690 Math, 800 Writing) and the PSAT (225), and am set to earn National Merit Scholarship.

One more thing you should do: retake the SAT to see if you can improve your Math score. Many of the ivys "superscore" your SATs, which means that you can keep your 800 in Verb and potentially get a higher score in Math.

Treat the SAT like you would treat the physical fitness test -- you have to TRAIN for it! You should sign up for a math tutoring program (not a "test taking" program) to learn, re-learn, and re-learn more math to improve your math score. And then retake the exam.

Your scores are impressive. But do not assume you are a lock when it comes to ROTC. There are many other issues at play here other than SAT (and I'm not talking about varsity sports, ECs, etc.). For example, my DS has a 800 Verb and 770 in Math (combined score of 1570/1600), varsity since sophomore year, etc. and has been rolled over so many times in NROTC since November that he's getting dizzy. Also, it is harder (at least with respect to Army ROTC) to get a scholarship at an "elite" school than at other schools where admissions standards might not be as high. That's just life.

Good luck!! You are way ahead of the pack by learning about the process on SAF now.
 
smac: I'm glad to hear that he's having a positive experience. Is he biomed? A friend of mine is starting at JHU in the fall, and intends to major in East Asian studies, but I know it best for the biomedical engineering program. What a place to be; fantastic opportunities, I'd imagine.
Was Hopkins his first choice on the scholarship app? I've heard the school did away with room/board stipends some time ago. Is financial aid workable?

He started as a biophyics major and then switched out of that during his second year (the BME program is well very respected, but tough). Overall, JHU is a very competitive academic school -- not just to get in, but also in terms of the academics once you are there. You should expect to work really hard with respect to your classes. My son indicated that a huge percentage of JHU students are pre-med, and with everyone setting their sights on med school the academic pressure can get a bit overwhelming.

My son did not have an ROTC scholarship when he started at JHU, but rather had a 50% academic scholarship going in (I forget the name). He did have a nomination and LOA to the Naval Academy but decided not to accept, and chose JHU as his alternative (conversly my daughter currently has a nomination and LOA to the Naval Academy and has accepted). Because he is so athletic, two of the brothers in his fraternity convinced him in his first year to join the ROTC program in order to be part of the Ranger Challenge team. He did that, did well, enjoyed his experience and became hooked. There is a strong bond between the cadets that take the program seriously, and understand what their commitment means. If you have the discipline to meet the phyiscal requirements (and to continue to improve), and learn the leadership qualities being taught you will earn the respect of the upper classmen and the cadre. My son has developed solid and long-lasting friendships with the cadets he has met through the program -- I hope he is able to keep those up once he commissions.

In terms of the ROTC scholarship at that school, you are correct in that there is not a room/board stipend, however you do get the book allowance in addition to tuition and the monthly living stipend. The ROTC cadre will work with you and the school Financial Aid folks to get you as much $$ as you may be entitled. The cadre has a good working relationship with Fin Aid, and it helps.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
theagentofchaos,

One more thing. The most important piece of advice that I can offer is this: Do NOT go down either the SA or ROTC routes unless you genuinely want to serve your country in the military and understand the benefits of serving and that you can lose your life in all this. You don't necessarily have to want to serve for your entire life (the military will provide that opportunity later) or know right now which branch of service you want to serve in. But you truly need to want to serve. If you don't have that essential quality, it will reflect down the road and things won't work out as you expected and this journey will be a disappointment.

Take some time to ask yourself whether you are willing to give up your life for our country before going down this road.

patentesq

.
 
theagentofchaos:

I read through you initial post again and there is one question you had that I don't think has been addressed. You asked how your field of study would translate into your army career. There are a couple things you should consider regarding the Army ROTC.

Your major and field of study has no bearing on the branch within the Army you serve in. The process for branch selection is a complicated one unless you graduate in the top 10% of all cadets across the country in your class year. If you are in the top 10% you are guarenteed your choice of branches. If you fall below the 10% you will have a "Wish List", based on how high you are on the national OML list the Army will select the branch for you. The higher you are the better chance of receiving the branch you want. The list involves many factors, the most important being your GPA. The GPA count 40% toward the list.

My point is that unless you are in the top 10% you run the risk of being branched into a field that will have nothing to do with what your plans are.

These are the issues you need to discuss with the PMS so you have a clear understanding of how everything works. You definatly want to enter into this with eyes wide open.

With the stats you posted and Pursuing an International Studies degree you should have no problem making the top 10%. Oh, and start working on that PT test now.
 
theagentofchaos:

I read through you initial post again and there is one question you had that I don't think has been addressed. You asked how your field of study would translate into your army career. There are a couple things you should consider regarding the Army ROTC.

Your major and field of study has no bearing on the branch within the Army you serve in. The process for branch selection is a complicated one unless you graduate in the top 10% of all cadets across the country in your class year. If you are in the top 10% you are guarenteed your choice of branches. If you fall below the 10% you will have a "Wish List", based on how high you are on the national OML list the Army will select the branch for you. The higher you are the better chance of receiving the branch you want. The list involves many factors, the most important being your GPA. The GPA count 40% toward the list.

My point is that unless you are in the top 10% you run the risk of being branched into a field that will have nothing to do with what your plans are.

These are the issues you need to discuss with the PMS so you have a clear understanding of how everything works. You definatly want to enter into this with eyes wide open.

With the stats you posted and Pursuing an International Studies degree you should have no problem making the top 10%. Oh, and start working on that PT test now.

Would you say that the benefit of an undergraduate degree at a prestigious university (speaking in the long-term; from what I have read, it seems that the military could care less as to whether the B.A. is from a state university or an Ivy) outweighs the difficulty presented by earning that top GPA at a tougher school?

I would wholeheartedly agree on the PT advice, by the way. I'm a thrower, so my endurance could certainly use some attention :rolleyes:
 
theagentofchaos,

One more thing. The most important piece of advice that I can offer is this: Do NOT go down either the SA or ROTC routes unless you genuinely want to serve your country in the military and understand the benefits of serving and that you can lose your life in all this. You don't necessarily have to want to serve for your entire life (the military will provide that opportunity later) or know right now which branch of service you want to serve in. But you truly need to want to serve. If you don't have that essential quality, it will reflect down the road and things won't work out as you expected and this journey will be a disappointment.

Take some time to ask yourself whether you are willing to give up your life for our country before going down this road.

patentesq

.

Thank you for pointing this out. I may not have elaborated it as well as I could have in previous posts, but I admire the military as an institution and as a conglomerate of individuals. The people I have met on-base overseas and in the states are some of the best folks I could have ever asked to be acquainted with. I would never be so conceited as to define myself as 'selfless', but I see that quality in many military friends and families, and I would consider it a pleasure to spend a career working with such individuals.
 
Would you say that the benefit of an undergraduate degree at a prestigious university (speaking in the long-term; from what I have read, it seems that the military could care less as to whether the B.A. is from a state university or an Ivy) outweighs the difficulty presented by earning that top GPA at a tougher school?

For what you want to do, I would say yes. Where I have really seen this is in action was at my former law firm (I work for a company now). We used to interview the top half of the Harvard Law School graduating class, but usually only interviewed the top 1 or 2 individuals at the local state college. The State Department is even more concerned about pedigree, it seems.

Bottom line: You really don't need to decide these now, because you will find that many decisions will be made for you. At this point, you should work very hard to open up as many doors as you can. You do this by casting your net broadly. If more than one opportunity presents itself, then evaluate each option carefully and then choose the best path and don't ever look back.
 
Would you say that the benefit of an undergraduate degree at a prestigious university (speaking in the long-term; from what I have read, it seems that the military could care less as to whether the B.A. is from a state university or an Ivy) outweighs the difficulty presented by earning that top GPA at a tougher school?

I would wholeheartedly agree on the PT advice, by the way. I'm a thrower, so my endurance could certainly use some attention :rolleyes:

Boy if that isn't the million dollar question.

In one regard you are correct and have made a great observation. When putting together the national OML list the Army does not care where the cadet is attending school or even what their major is. Currently a 3.6 with an Art degree will trump a 3.0 in Astro Phyisics. The school you went to will have no baring on your placement on the OML.

Now that brings up an entirely different issue. A lot of kids that start ROTC are for a lack of a better term, very Gung Ho, they start out believing that they are going to make the Army a career, a large number of these cadets will pick majors and classes soley based on getting the highest GPA they can to put them toward the top of the OML. In my opinion this is a little short sighted, no one knows what their life in the Army will be like or even if they will like it at all, they may decide to do their 4 years and get out. If these cadets picked a major or classes they really have no interest in, well, now they are stuck with it. The same goes for school selections.

If you plan to make the Army a career and follw through with those plans then you are correct, school choice will not make much of a difference. If you plan to get out after 4 years then it will have a greater impact.

Now please take this next statement as it is meant, International Affairs degrees are not the hardest degree to obtain. That in no way is meant to diminish its value, My son is a History Major with plans to get his Masters in International Affairs or possibly Law School. I happen to think Internaional Affairs is a great field of study given the state of the world right now.

Every PMS and Cadre member we have ever talked to have said the same thing, pick a school that you are comfortable with, one that you really want to attend and then look at ROTC. The first choice should be the school.

Remember this as well, if you leave the Army after 4 years and then apply for a position in either the private or public sector, you will not be competing on the same level with recent graduates, you will have 4 years of management experience as an Officer in the United States Army, not an insignificant line on a resume.

You have the stats that make you competitive at most schools, only you will be able to decide which school is right for you.

What events do you do as a thrower, my younger son is in the opposite position, he runs distance so his focus has been gaining more strength. Just start running over the summer once track is over, I know how much throw coaches hate to see their throwers run too much and lose muscle mass so star hitting the road once the season ends. Shoot for the 13:00 min. 2 mile.

Good luck
 
What events do you do as a thrower, my younger son is in the opposite position, he runs distance so his focus has been gaining more strength. Just start running over the summer once track is over, I know how much throw coaches hate to see their throwers run too much and lose muscle mass so star hitting the road once the season ends. Shoot for the 13:00 min. 2 mile.

Good luck

I just realized that I neglected to mention that I'm female; I throw shot put and discus for the women's varsity squad. On that note, what are the standards of fitness for female applicants? I think they differ from those of the PFT, and, to be honest, I've yet to check exactly what time I must attain (push-ups and curl-ups I'm less concerned about).
 
I just realized that I neglected to mention that I'm female; I throw shot put and discus for the women's varsity squad. On that note, what are the standards of fitness for female applicants? I think they differ from those of the PFT, and, to be honest, I've yet to check exactly what time I must attain (push-ups and curl-ups I'm less concerned about).

The AFPT standards for female cadets are different then that of male cadets.

2 mile Run
To pass the 2 mile run the time needed is 18:54 ( 60 points )
To get the full 100 points the time is 15:36

Push ups
19 to pass with 60 points
42 to max with 100 points

Sit ups
53 to pass with 60 points
78 to max with 100 points

Good luck with this season of track. Do you think you will participate in track at college.
 
The AFPT standards for female cadets are different then that of male cadets.

2 mile Run
To pass the 2 mile run the time needed is 18:54 ( 60 points )
To get the full 100 points the time is 15:36

Push ups
19 to pass with 60 points
42 to max with 100 points

Sit ups
53 to pass with 60 points
78 to max with 100 points

Good luck with this season of track. Do you think you will participate in track at college.

Thank you for posting this- definitely clears things up. I'm going to submit my marks to a number of universities (all of which are Division 3; I'm a competitive recruit at the Ivies, though I'm probably not going to get it on throws alone. Since I hail from the Southwest, I've never been exposed to crew, but I'm about six feet tall and a lifelong athlete. I'm hoping they'll consider letting me try out). I don't see ROTC and college athletics meshing in terms of time commitment- don't want to leave two half-done when I can easily commit to one and work to excel in it- but I'm going to cast every line I can and see what looks best at the end of the day. My goal to become a Foreign Area Officer remains, but I'll consider alternate paths to that destination.
 
Thank you for posting this- definitely clears things up. I'm going to submit my marks to a number of universities (all of which are Division 3; I'm a competitive recruit at the Ivies, though I'm probably not going to get it on throws alone. Since I hail from the Southwest, I've never been exposed to crew, but I'm about six feet tall and a lifelong athlete. I'm hoping they'll consider letting me try out). I don't see ROTC and college athletics meshing in terms of time commitment- don't want to leave two half-done when I can easily commit to one and work to excel in it- but I'm going to cast every line I can and see what looks best at the end of the day. My goal to become a Foreign Area Officer remains, but I'll consider alternate paths to that destination.

Have you considered Amherst?

It is a cross-town for UMass Amherst and NESCAC schools give a great admissions boost to competitive D3 athletes. If you do some research on this you will find these small schools have a high percentage of recruited athletes. For this reason, your "chances" at a NESCAC as a recruited athlete are much better than at other highly selective institutions.

Many consider an Amherst education the equivalent of either Harvard or Yale in the liberal arts. Can't speak for the reputation of their IR - something you should research for yourself. And as a track and field athlete, the recruiting is relatively cut and dried - by sending the coach your stats (both athletic and academic) you should be able to get feedback to see if you would likely get "help" in admissions (they reserve slots for their recruited athletes).

If you are a sought after recruit however, you will need to apply Early Decision (binding). Most of their athletes come in this way. This can complicate things, as you will have to make this decision by 11/15 (this year's ED deadline) which may or may not be before the AROTC scholarship first board next year.

However, if FA is a concern, Amherst, like the top Ivies meets 100% of financial need with FA. (IIRC on a per-pupil basis their endowment is actually larger than Harvard's) Recently, it has been a no-loan school (all grants), but I think it may have shifted this year back to limited loans. Something you would want to investigate further. There are FA calculators that will help you understand how much FA you would qualify for.

Overall, your academic credentials make you competitive for all of the schools you listed. If you want to participate in D3 athletics, your level of athletic talent may help your admissions at schools that look at this as part of the admissions packet. That is why I suggested Amherst.

Best of luck.
 
I don't see ROTC and college athletics meshing in terms of time commitment- don't want to leave two half-done when I can easily commit to one and work to excel in it.

Just to let you know, it CAN be done. Graduated with a friend who got his commission a month after winning the ACC title for the decathlon. The key is TIME MANAGEMENT.

(Also, realize this was in the days of the Reagan build-up of our Armed Forces, which was MUCH different than today's situation. The expectations from ROTC to keep up the grades and participate are higher, and any drop off in either have more immediate and drastic consequences, i.e. dropped from the program.)
 
Yes!

Just to let you know, it CAN be done. Graduated with a friend who got his commission a month after winning the ACC title for the decathlon. The key is TIME MANAGEMENT.

What other experiences are crucial as you attend college? Do you want to be in a soriority? Do you feel like you would need to attend most plays, athletic events, key note speaker events? Many students waste hours during their college days and actually do better when they have prescribed activities so they manage their time better. Juggling three roles is possible if you don't need to also party, go home on weekends, work, or manage a family for example.
 
Good evening! I just stumbled across this forum tonight, and I am so glad that I did...
There is a wealth of information archived here, and I will be the first to admit that I have hardly scratched the surface. However, if you have a moment, I would very much appreciate some insight on the ROTC scholarship application process (and the program on the whole).
Until very recently, ROTC was not on my radar. To give you some quick background on my prospects: I am on good terms with the head of our JROTC group on campus, though I myself have never been a member of it. Through him, I have been very much encouraged in the college admissions process. As I am currently in my junior year, I have taken the SAT (800 Critical Reading, 690 Math, 800 Writing) and the PSAT (225), and am set to earn National Merit Scholarship. I have been a lettered varsity athlete since my freshman year, and have ranked in the top 8 of my 5A district for my event in track and field both years. I was one of ten students in America to spend the summer of 2010 on a government-funded foreign exchange, and gained some proficiency in Japanese in that time. I have been the editor-in-chief of a nationally recognized online newspaper for two years, and have gone to state for literary criticism. I have served as class representative and class president. My writing has appeared in our largest metropolitan newspaper (I am one of a group of selected student freelancers; paid for every byline) and has been exhibited in a local museum. When I had laid this out for our JROTC instructor, he exhorted me to apply for a scholarship.
I first considered ROTC when speaking with the father of a teammate, who had served as a foreign area officer and had his entire education (at Johns Hopkins- one of my target schools) funded by the military. His description of the work FAOs are engaged it was an epiphany to me. I really believe this is what I want to do. Regardless, I am certain that military experience would be indispensable to me were I to follow my initial dreams of a career in the Foreign Service. I hope to continue my study of Japanese and begin Korean in college. My intended major, if possible, would be international studies or (in the case of Georgetown) foreign service.

With that said, I have a few questions:
+ First: How necessary are these majors? From what I can discern, FAOs are within the Army only, though the Navy and Air Force have equivalent positions on a smaller scale. I would assume that my chances are best through the army, since the subject I intend to study will impact whether or not I am awarded a scholarship. Are North Asian languages in demand?
+ What is the general timeline of application? I have seen that AFROTC begins in May (I do intend to apply in May, as I have heard that earlier is better in almost any case), but at what point are students notified if they have been accepted? Do NROTC and AROTC application cycles also begin on May 1?
+ Do all branches require the student to rank colleges by preference? If so; would it be better to place a less-desired but financially secure option atop one where whatever cost left over might not be covered?
+ In light of Harvard's readmission of NROTC- and the likelihood of other Ivies following suit- would it be foolish to place a Harvard or Stanford at the first slot? I have already submitted my SATs to both, and intend to apply in the regular decision round regardless, but I do not know what strategy to take when ranking the colleges in the scholarship application.
+ How relevant is post-graduate assignment to subject matter studied? I am concerned that, having spent four years laboring in a foreign language, I will be unable to apply my skills for some time (I've read that FAO is a mid-career designation; some eight years of service into an Army career). Will my specific knowledge base relate to the work I do after commission?
+ While my parents are quite confident that I would be accepted at Georgetown or Hopkins, I am very uncertain. In a scenario where I have listed one of the two as my 'first choice' and am not admitted, is the scholarship invalidated? Or does it move to the second slot, pending an empty space in that campus' ROTC unit?
+ Any other advice you could impart would be very much appreciated.
checkout FAOweb (fao.nps.edu) to connect with other FAOs who can answer your questions about FAOs.
 
Have you considered Amherst?

It is a cross-town for UMass Amherst and NESCAC schools give a great admissions boost to competitive D3 athletes. If you do some research on this you will find these small schools have a high percentage of recruited athletes. For this reason, your "chances" at a NESCAC as a recruited athlete are much better than at other highly selective institutions.

Many consider an Amherst education the equivalent of either Harvard or Yale in the liberal arts. Can't speak for the reputation of their IR - something you should research for yourself. And as a track and field athlete, the recruiting is relatively cut and dried - by sending the coach your stats (both athletic and academic) you should be able to get feedback to see if you would likely get "help" in admissions (they reserve slots for their recruited athletes).

If you are a sought after recruit however, you will need to apply Early Decision (binding). Most of their athletes come in this way. This can complicate things, as you will have to make this decision by 11/15 (this year's ED deadline) which may or may not be before the AROTC scholarship first board next year.

However, if FA is a concern, Amherst, like the top Ivies meets 100% of financial need with FA. (IIRC on a per-pupil basis their endowment is actually larger than Harvard's) Recently, it has been a no-loan school (all grants), but I think it may have shifted this year back to limited loans. Something you would want to investigate further. There are FA calculators that will help you understand how much FA you would qualify for.

Overall, your academic credentials make you competitive for all of the schools you listed. If you want to participate in D3 athletics, your level of athletic talent may help your admissions at schools that look at this as part of the admissions packet. That is why I suggested Amherst.

Best of luck.

I took your word and checked the results of last year's NESCAC Championship meet, and I am blown away. I would have pointed for both events. I will be contacting those coaches in short order. I can't thank you enough!

What other experiences are crucial as you attend college? Do you want to be in a soriority? Do you feel like you would need to attend most plays, athletic events, key note speaker events? Many students waste hours during their college days and actually do better when they have prescribed activities so they manage their time better. Juggling three roles is possible if you don't need to also party, go home on weekends, work, or manage a family for example.

I'm not much for greek life- as keen as I am on a residential dorm system, I'm not much for parties, and find constant engagement in large-group activities a tad draining. I'm glad to hear that students can (and do) work on both ROTC and athletics, since I believe my personality is more suited to small-group settings and a few activities to focus intently upon. I'm in total agreement on the matter of time management. When I'm in-season for athletics, my grades improve and my work habits are far cleaner than when I have more empty hours in the day.
 
checkout FAOweb (fao.nps.edu) to connect with other FAOs who can answer your questions about FAOs.

I hadn't run across this site before. I will certainly check it out and see if I can find more info. Thank you for posting the link!
 
Back
Top