Transpo officer

scoutpilot said:
The stigma is a result of experiences, in most cases. Like it or not, closing with and destroying the enemy is the mission. That's the end all and be all of our existence as a military. All the fluffy crap we do (nation building, vaccinating goats, etc.) is ancillary to our main purpose. The result of that fact is that there will always be a stigma against choosing a branch that's away from the fight.
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Absolutely- well put Scout. All of the other branches are there as complements to that mission. Every now and then the Army goes thru a "we are all equal" spasm which lasts until wars start and suddenly people in the Army recognize pretty rapidly that the burden and risk are not equally shared, and the leadership challenges are vastly different. There is a huge difference between a Company Commander who has to tell his platoons that they will have to accomplish a mission that may very well result in some or many of them being killed or wounded as a matter of course, and the management of Class I,III, V, & IX to support those warriors (even though occassionally those supporting soldiers are targetted themselves). The Army is immeasurablybetter by all of those advantages that come from the supporting branches- but the fight is fought by combat units. So why does USMA push their grads to be Combat Arms officers? Seems self explanatory- that's what the Army exists for.

And the idea that you are somehow putting yourself into a better position to get a job after your obligation is up- is both false and self serving- false because unless you are a Doctor, Nurse, a Pilot or to a lesser extent Lawyer- nothing that you do in the Army will be the same as it will on the outside anyway . As a junior officer leaving the service, you will get hired for your potential to work hard, organize, coordinate, prioritize and lead organizations, and every JO Recruiting firm that I have seen doesn't look for just CSS junior Captains to place- they are looking for high quality junior officers of all branches. Your experiences as a Combat Arms junior officer will require all of those attributes-Armor, Mech Infantry, Engineers etc... all spend huge amounts of their time in garrison in motor pools implementing planned or reactive maintenance programs. Battalion and even Brigade S1s and S4s ( Personnel and Log Staff Officers) are Combat Arms officers. If someone isn't getting a job - it isn't because he was launching bullets down range- it's because somebody didn't teach them how to write a resume and interview well to highlight all of the things that they know and are capable of. And finally- if you are picking your Army branch as a Service Academy graduate to set you up for your civilian career- then you deserve to be treated with something less than adulation- because your primary loyalty and focus is supposed to be to the Army, not how to use the Army to advance your post Army life. Don't think that's fair? Go to a civilian company and tell them that you are interested in picking their brains for a few years so that you can open your own business later on- and see how well received that will be.
 
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Indeed it was. I was just going to say "be a man."

And by that I mean recognize what is expected of young men at a place which has afforded you so much. If leadership in combat isn't for you, the Army isn't for you. That being said...you're more capable than you think.
 
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Try a branch detail CS. You will learn invaluable lessons in combat arms and can still get some support branch experiences. I have met many support branch officers that branch detailed when they were LTs and they were the fast movers in their support branches because of their combat arms experiences.

Bruno and Scout are right. Don't sell yourself short. Being intimidated/nervous about being a combat arms leader is a good thing! It will motivate you to know your tactics/techniques even more.

Give your Infantry CTLT a chance to change your mind. You will see how great the current combat arms NCO is. You aren't out there alone. They just want someone who is smart, strong, proficient and cares about the mission and Soldiers.

Good luck :thumb:
 
bruno said:
And the idea that you are somehow putting yourself into a better position to get a job after your obligation is up- is both false and self serving- false because unless you are a Doctor, Nurse, a Pilot or to a lesser extent Lawyer- nothing that you do in the Army will be the same as it will on the outside anyway.
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That statement is simply false. There are branches or jobs that translate to the private sector. "Closing with the enemy" isn't one of them. Of course, there are also either technically equivalent jobs or employers (like government contractors) that also have some possibly cross-overs to the private sector. Now, maybe you're talking about Transpo specifically and not "setting yourself up" in general.

Scout flies a helicopter. Maybe he could fly a LifeFlight helo at Vanderbilt?

Is it "self serving?" But last time I checked, very few soldiers create their own billets, so if someone has to fill it, might as well be you.

That doesn't mean it will be exactly the same. But I can promise you, there are very few employers who are saying "we need someone to close with the enemy"... they may, however, like the leadership aspects of service.

Either way, making the transition isn't easy and the federal government (including the services), aren't exactly making it easier. People currently working or retired, constantly rattle off how easy it will be for you to get a job once you leave the military. Sure, there are people who do a good job setting themselves up upon exiting the service. And sure, some capitalize on the ring-knocker connections. But there are MANY who haven't found a place to work, who were told it would be easy and who have taken months to get a bite. So let's not be too reassuring to the future civilians out there that the high unemployment numbers for veterans don't touch officers, even academy officers. Some go back to school. Some look for work for months and eventually find it. But the idea that people are out there chomping at the bit for a shooter... well, that just doesn't line up with the reality of the situation. And yes, I realize there are exceptions... Booz Allen, Lockheed, IBM, Northrup, etc etc etc.... contractors, especially ones with large military contracts, may be on the look out.
 
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That's probably why Bruno mentioned "pilot" as an exception to that rule.

I could fly EMS. If I felt like being broke.
 
I got to think most of the money is in fixed wing...


Go up to NYC and be the private pilot for some CEO/managing partner.
 
bruno said:
Go to a civilian company and tell them that you are interesting in picking their brains for a few years so that you can open your own business later on- and see how well received that will be.
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Hate to tell you this, Bruno, they will actually think you are honest, because pretty much these days nobody signs up for a 30-year career, because they don't exist in the private sector.

And quite frankly, in IT, many managers think churn is a good thing from both sides of the equation.
 
Aglahad said:
Let's all just cut all of the support branches, we don't need them.
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Don't think anybody said that. But they shouldn't be the first choice of a young, focused USMA officer candidate. USMA obviously agrees with me.
 
scoutpilot said:
Don't think anybody said that. But they shouldn't be the first choice of a young, focused USMA officer candidate. USMA obviously agrees with me.
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And yes, lets tell our newly minted engineers that the Engineering branch is not for you, especially when they carve out a certain allocation specifically for degreed engineers... You sir should be on the front lines.

:rolleyes:
 
goaliedad said:
And yes, lets tell our newly minted engineers that the Engineering branch is not for you, especially when they carve out a certain allocation specifically for degreed engineers... You sir should be on the front lines.

:rolleyes:
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You do realize that the Corps of Engineers is a combat arms branch and that having an engineering degree is not a requirement to branching engineers?

Oh, wait, obviously you didn't. Perhaps you're thinking of the Air Force.

They are a branch which, under the old system, straddled combat arms and combat support, but were not a combat service support branch. They are still under MFE. For the purposes of branching, USMA considers them a combat arms branch.
 
scoutpilot said:
Don't think anybody said that. But they shouldn't be the first choice of a young, focused USMA officer candidate. USMA obviously agrees with me.
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You are right; support branches should be the first choice for the young, focused ROTC/OCS grads.
 
scoutpilot said:
The stigma is a result of experiences, in most cases. Like it or not, closing with and destroying the enemy is the mission. That's the end all and be all of our existence as a military. All the fluffy crap we do (nation building, vaccinating goats, etc.) is ancillary to our main purpose. The result of that fact is that there will always be a stigma against choosing a branch that's away from the fight.



I am sure it will. Hopefully you enjoy it and you learn a lot. Where are you headed?
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goaliedad said:
And yes, lets tell our newly minted engineers that the Engineering branch is not for you, especially when they carve out a certain allocation specifically for degreed engineers... You sir should be on the front lines.

:rolleyes:
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scoutpilot said:
You do realize that the Corps of Engineers is a combat arms branch and that having an engineering degree is not a requirement to branching engineers?

Oh, wait, obviously you didn't. Perhaps you're thinking of the Air Force.

They are a branch which, under the old system, straddled combat arms and combat support, but were not a combat service support branch. They are still under MFE. For the purposes of branching, USMA considers them a combat arms branch.
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Weasel out of your quote all you want, but per the above, all the manly men from USMA are supposed to be about "closing and destroying the enemy" - hardly the job of the Corps of Engineers. Those guys help with the fluffy crap of nation building and aren't exactly tasked with "closing and destroying".

And if you read my quote carefully, you would recognize that degrees weren't required for all Engineering slots.

And of course, you didn't say anything about the EOD guys in Ordnance (who must be responsible for goat vaccination as a member of a support branch). Yeah, they aren't "closing and destroying the enemy", they just keep the other guys from "closing and destroying our team" - hardly a coward's job.

You love to disparage folks who signed up for branches that you think aren't manly enough - hardly the type of leadership that builds a team. Oh, yeah those transportation guys who are easy targets for the Taliban aren't part of your team.

Point here is that cadets should sign up for branches that fit their talents and interests. If you have a talent towards computer/networks/etc., keeping Signal Corps off your branch list because of some misguided sense of what a "real officer" does is not doing your country any favors.

The young man considering Transportation may have his doubts as to whether he is best fitted (when compared to his peers) to do the Infantry/FA type branches. You seem to have dragged what could be very honest introspection into a manhood check. Underestimating your talent in this regard is probably a better mistake to make than overestimating it, considering the lives at stake. I would suggest he talk to the experienced cadre who have observed him in action to get a sanity check as to whether or not he is well fitted for these branches.
 
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Whatever branch you get

You will forever fight for your branches honor.

I am sure that some blood has been spilled in VFW halls over the years arguing similiar themes as per this thread.
 
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