Trump Bans Transgender Americans from Service

[C76706340]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...gender-americans-from-serving-in-the-military

Uh oh...thoughts?

When replying to this thread, please abide by the Forum Posting Rules. I have no intention of stirring up controversy in posting this thread. I simply want to get some feedback from the SA Forum community. Thanks.

 

[usafa2022]

It seems obvious that if you're undergoing surgeries or hormone treatments to try to switch genders, then you shouldn't be eligible to serve. DoDMERB DQs people for just about every condition imaginable, so it wouldn't make sense if they didn't DQ people who are damaging their bodies in an attempt to reassign their gender. It's not an issue of discrimination, it's a medical issue.

 

[bookreader]

Tagging onto the theme of 'it's a medical issue' - my question is this: transgendered people are tethered to their hormone prescriptions and I thought that you could not have ongoing prescription needs while serving on active duty. Or maybe that is just for those who are in combat?

A relative of mine transgendered from male to female and I watched that person lose quite a lot of his strength in the process. It made me wonder about how a transgendered person would keep up with the military PT standards . There will always be outliers, but can most transgendered individuals maintain PT standards?

 

[Soldiergriz]

Prescriptions are filled prior to deployment if required.

I have no comment on the OP. I just wanted to answer book reader's question immediately above.

 

[kinnem]

There will always be outliers, but can most transgendered individuals maintain PT standards?

If one is transgendered, their PT standards change to match their gender. Surely you will not say that women cannot meet PT standards. On that fairly neutral and mild note I will exit this conversation... it can lead to no good.

 

[xyzabc123]

(1) Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that one needs to be classified as having prior to receiving a gender surgery.

(2) In other words, the antecedent to the transition stage is being diagnosed with a mental disorder.

(3) Consequently, transgender people are mentally ill.

(4) I'm not sure that we should be allowing mentally ill people wield weapons in the service or any capacity for that matter.

1, 2, and 3 may not be PC, but they are facts. Number 4 is my opinion.

 

[bookreader]

The person who I know who transgendered lost such an incredible amount of strength that I legitimately had a question about the issue of passing a pt test. I have no idea of this person is a usual situation or an outlier.

 

[Humey]

Not commenting on the issue, but if you get DQ for ezcema, it would seem physical transitioning is a little more complicated.

 

[usn907]

(1) Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that one needs to be classified as having prior to receiving a gender surgery.

(2) In other words, the antecedent to the transition stage is being diagnosed with a mental disorder.

(3) Consequently, transgender people are mentally ill.

(4) I'm not sure that we should be allowing mentally ill people wield weapons in the service or any capacity for that matter.

1, 2, and 3 may not be PC, but they are facts. Number 4 is my opinion.

I’m not responding to the OP, nor stating an opinion about transgender folks serving in the military. Only responding to JOHNKIM1883.

The term “gender dysphoria” applies only to psychiatric discontent experienced by someone resulting from gender identity issues. The American Psychiatric Association states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.” The critical element of “gender dysphoria” is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition. So, to say that “transgender people are mentally ill” is not only not PC, but is not a fact. It’s more a blanket statement that is generally false.

 

[xyzabc123]

(1) Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that one needs to be classified as having prior to receiving a gender surgery.

(2) In other words, the antecedent to the transition stage is being diagnosed with a mental disorder.

(3) Consequently, transgender people are mentally ill.

(4) I'm not sure that we should be allowing mentally ill people wield weapons in the service or any capacity for that matter.

1, 2, and 3 may not be PC, but they are facts. Number 4 is my opinion.

I’m not responding to the OP, nor stating an opinion about transgender folks serving in the military. Only responding to JOHNKIM1883.

The term “gender dysphoria” applies only to psychiatric discontent experienced by someone resulting from gender identity issues. The American Psychiatric Association states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.” The critical element of “gender dysphoria” is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition. So, to say that “transgender people are mentally ill” is not only not PC, but is not a fact. It’s more a blanket statement that is generally false.

Thank you for correcting me. I sometimes use imprecise language.

Transgender people are not mentally "ill" but are classified as having a mental disorder (see ICD-10 CM, 2017 version).

Link: http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/F01-F99/F60-F69/F64-/F64.1

It all depends on the source that one uses, I guess.

 

[GoCubbies]

@JOHNKIM1883

Not all people with a mental disorder are dq from the military.

The Army will give a waiver to a AH-64 pilot with depression on an SSRI. Is not the AH-64 the most powerful attack helicopter in the world? That is a pretty powerful weapon for someone with depression (albeit undergoing treatment) to wield.

Same thing goes for PTSD. So long as it is treated and Soldier can functional in his/her military speciality, then they can stay and continue to serve honorably.

Likewise with gender dysphoria. What it it’s treated? Shouldn’t they have an equal shot at serving our country just like someone with PTSD, depression, or OCD?

Not taking any sides on this debate but just want to point out some some arguments that gender dysphoria advocates have put out there.

As pointed out earlier, it’s not necessarily the condition itself but the ability to NOT have clinically significant symptoms that negatively affect job safety and effective performance.

 

[Tigger]

Would a waiver be granted if the individual was diagnosed with depression and received treatment with an SSRI prior to joining the Army?

Please don't interpret this as an endorsement of the recent announcement. I am only asking to understand the process more completely.

@JOHNKIM1883

Not all people with a mental disorder are dq from the military.

The Army will give a waiver to a AH-64 pilot with depression on an SSRI. Is not the AH-64 the most powerful attack helicopter in the world? That is a pretty powerful weapon for someone with depression (albeit undergoing treatment) to wield.

Same thing goes for PTSD. So long as it is treated and Soldier can functional in his/her military speciality, then they can stay and continue to serve honorably.

Likewise with gender dysphoria. What it it’s treated? Shouldn’t they have an equal shot at serving our country just like someone with PTSD, depression, or OCD?

Not taking any sides on this debate but just want to point out some some arguments that gender dysphoria advocates have put out there.

As pointed out earlier, it’s not necessarily the condition itself but the ability to NOT have clinically significant symptoms that negatively affect job safety and effective performance.

 

[GoCubbies]

The applicant will be DQ at the DODMERB level, but the Army will consider a waiver in someone with a distant history of depression and successfully treated with an SSRI.

 

[Tigger]

Thank you for the explanation.

Can an applicant receive a waiver while receiving current treatment for depression or ADHD?

The applicant will be DQ at the DODMERB level, but the Army will consider a waiver in someone with a distant history of depression and successfully treated with an SSRI.

 

[GoCubbies]

My professional opinion is that someone with current ADHD or depression on meds will not get a waiver.

 

[MemberLG]

Let us start with something objective. Keep in mind US military has been changing accession standards and granting waivers to meet their numbers or kicking service members out. There is some quantifiable cost of allowing transgender service members to serve from just paying for medication to actual transition surgery. This will be cost specific to transgender service members only. So where is the shifting point when the cost justifies allowing transgender people to serve and stay in the military. I don’t know, but my point is that there is an additional cost that wasn’t there before. At the same time, the cost is negligible in a $7oo billion DoD budget.

The decision becomes political as someone along the chain of command makes a decision as although there is a definite cost to allowing trasgender to serve someone as to put a value on that cost. I am reasonably sure that Trump’s replacement can easily reverse the decision if he or she wants to.

 

[hornetguy]

We've had the discussion already on SAF. Most of the question and concerns are addressed here: http://www.spartapride.org/learn_more

This 'new' ban won't do anything as the courts have already blocked any ban attempts. Until that is resolved, nothing has changed.

 

[conrack]

libs still haven't figured out that the military isn't the place for social experimenting

 

[EDelahanty]

libs still haven't figured out that the military isn't the place for social experimenting

Right on, bro! Now if only the President would cancel Executive Order 9981. Talk about social experimenting. Who did unelected Truman think he was, anyway?

 

[C76706340]

libs still haven't figured out that the military isn't the place for social experimenting

Right on, bro! Now if only the President would cancel Executive Order 9981. Talk about social experimenting. Who did unelected Truman think he was, anyway?

Uh...

So you want the services to be segregated again? Bit extreme, eh?

As a freedom loving American, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’m just wondering why you’d want that executive order abolished.