TSA Precheck Expands to Service Academy Students

bearhunter66 said:
Since the statements are flat out wrong, I feel compelled to point to out. That darn DNA thing again...

As I previously indicated, provide a solid reason why the policy should not apply to KP mids, properly communicate it, and I'm good to go. KP is unique, so one must take the good with the bad. As you state, a small price to pay at times.

BH
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So are you saying KP minds should qualify for TSA pre- check or not?

Agreed that statements are wrong. It seems like some times higher you get, either they ignore the details or stay away from awkward sound bites, I.e. All service academy cadets and midshipmen except USMMA.

My guess is when lawyers got though with the new policy they kindly pointed put that whatever authority they are using didn't cover USMMA mids. So to me, the policy itself is okay, but it is being misrepresented.
 
NAVY ... NAVY ... NAVY

It's Navy Reserve, not Naval Reserve. It's been almost 10 years since the name was officially changed.

NAVY ... NAVY ... NAVY
 
bearhunter66 said:
Jasper,
Points well made. I am the son of a 20yr Marine Officer so I have been accused at times of fighting for every hill. Part of my family DNA...

This issue I am concerned about is not TSA Pre-check; that is tactical. The strategic problem I care about is the fact that KP is unique but it is not recognized as such. As evidenced by this particular issue:

a) Vice Chairman of Joint Chiefs referring to policy as apply to "all United States Service Academy cadets and midshipman"

b) Director of the TSA referring to policy is "the least the agency can do for members of the nation's military and service academies"

c) A TSA policy that purports to offer "expedited screening to all members of the U.S. Armed Forces, including those serving in the U.S. Coast Guard, Reserves and National Guard"

Statements like these do not support the uniqueness of KP. Quite the opposite. They imply (state?) that KP is being treated the same when it is clearly not. IMO, that is not a good thing at all. Since the statements are flat out wrong, I feel compelled to point to out. That darn DNA thing again...

As I previously indicated, provide a solid reason why the policy should not apply to KP mids, properly communicate it, and I'm good to go. KP is unique, so one must take the good with the bad. As you state, a small price to pay at times.

However, when we let an issue like this go unchecked, meaning when folks "believe" KP is being treated the same when it is not or should be treated the same when it should not, it seems to me to be no different than Congress voting to avert the sequestration impact to the "Academies" and forgetting about KP or when an Advisory Board make recommendations that ignore the fundamental differences of KP's mission.

Trust this makes sense.

BH
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Your time and energy would be better spent on issues like this that actually have a bigger impact on KP than whether or not they get TSA precheck.
http://www.usmmaaf.com/s/1175/image...aaf_response_to_the_advisory_board_report.pdf
 
MemberLG,
Unsure. Depends on their rationale, if any. If there is a reasoned rationale and USMMA is intentionally excluded, so be it. Clarify and correct the record.

If no rationale or KP was excluded "just because", I think that would be a problem.

I suspect, seeing that this is the Federal Government, that it was a policy based on who has a DOD number (easy), lack of initiative to figure out a solution for KP mids who don't have a DOD number (no extra work), and a poor communication of the policy due to ignorance or political expediency (what else is new).


Tanker,
I do not disagree with you. Respectfully, I believe the TSA Pre-check issue and the Advisory Report are different symptoms of the same problem as I noted in my post to Jasper.

BH
 
bearhunter66 said:
MemberLG,
Unsure. Depends on their rationale, if any. If there is a reasoned rationale and USMMA is intentionally excluded, so be it. Clarify and correct the record.

If no rationale or KP was excluded "just because", I think that would be a problem.

I suspect, seeing that this is the Federal Government, that it was a policy based on who has a DOD number (easy), lack of initiative to figure out a solution for KP mids who don't have a DOD number (no extra work), and a poor communication of the policy due to ignorance or political expediency (what else is new).


Tanker,
I do not disagree with you. Respectfully, I believe the TSA Pre-check issue and the Advisory Report are different symptoms of the same problem as I noted in my post to Jasper.

BH
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You should be fighting the issue why your son was issued a TWIC Card that isn't any good for TSA precheck, especially since both are done at the same facilities, same hardware/software and by the same people.
Regardless of if KP is included or not, your son holding a TWIC has already undergone the TSA background check. You should be asking DoHS why that's no good.
 
tankercaptain said:
You should be fighting the issue why your son was issued a TWIC Card that isn't any good for TSA precheck, especially since both are done at the same facilities, same hardware/software and by the same people.
Regardless of if KP is included or not, your son holding a TWIC has already undergone the TSA background check. You should be asking DoHS why that's no good.
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It's just DHS…. not DoHS…

and I agree. When you think about who DOES qualify for TSA Pre-Check, you would hope anyone with a TWIC Card would be one of them. Understanding that would require the powers that be, at TSA, finding their heads and removing them from the nether regions. TSA didn't want to own TWIC from the beginning.
 
TankerCaptain and BearHunter:

Now you are talking about two entirely different things TWIC vs TSAPrecheck. I'm going to stick to the post's original thread relative to why I think the TSAPrecheck item is entirely NOT worth talking about. The whole TWIC discussion with my fellow academy alumni as well as most Merchant Mariners and those in the maritime industry is usually just ludicrous for me to have because the industry's feelings about it are generally based on either total misunderstanding of it's real purpose or the reality that it's been a poorly implemented and managed program since it's inception so even if you understand and agree with the purpose it's really not doing what it's meant to do nor is it of any tangible side benefit to the industry.

Now back to BearHunter's point and my reaction - BH you say "The strategic problem I care about is the fact that KP is unique but it is not recognized as such."

That's jus not an accurate statement at all - you are concluding USMMA isn't recognized as being unique based on what? Because some person at DHS who thought they were doing something nice for USNA, USMA, USCGA and/or USAFA students didn't also go out of their way to also do a separate action to make sure that some 900+ USMMA students don't also get TSAPre privileges for free as well? Or is it because Vice Chairman of the JCS or Director od TSA didn't go out of their way to complicate a top level explanation of a policy to cite all the specifics of it and the fact that since it would need another separate action to cover 900 USMMA students who already get a full scholarship, room and board at one of the highest rated Undergraduate Colleges in the nation for free? That same institution, my and my son's alma mater, that right now is the largest single budget expense for the US Maritime Administration.... To me that's where we need to focus, the expansion of that same budget and the capital infusion needed to improve an aging infrastructure, modernize lab facilities, etc. Also legislative relief to enable the gifting process to USMMA to have and benefit from the same legislative relief the other Service Academies have as the legislative relief they have stems from legislation tied to their budget authorizations and appropriations bills and USMMA budget comes from other Public Laws separate and distinct from those bills. We are making progress in this regard in my opinion but asking Members of Congress to give time and effort for things like free TSAPre for students is a waste of access and face time if and when we get it.

Finally as I say, most of us and perhaps your own son, don't want to be treated the same as the other Mids/Cadets, etc at the other Academies. We don't want to have no choice but to go on active duty for five years upon graduation in the Service that that Academy exists to supply O-1's for, etc. We do want to be leaders in the maritime industry and go to and graduate from a Maritime Academy that is the world's foremost maritime training program, etc. Spending time highlighting that and getting support for that means getting people especially Members of Congress - the people who really matter in this type of discussion and can help make sure USMMA reaches that goal - to help us all support and achieve the goal. Put me in a room with a key MOC that can help USMMA, or a leader at Department of Transportation, Defense, or Homeland Security and the last thing on my list of things to talk about will be why USMMA Mids aren't automatically given TSAPre right below/after I DON'T spend a second talking about TWIC unless perhaps if it's the DHS TWIC Program Manager and then I'll ask why after 10 years TWIC is still only a "sight badge" and good for nothing else, not why USMMA students need them or don't automatically get them based on the DoD paperwork... However, I'm more likely to ask why Foreign crews who regularly call on US ports, like at Cruise Ships that go in and out of South Florida ports for months at a time, don't need something similar, etc. if I was talking to a DHS "credentialing" official at that level or above.

My point is and remains pick your battles, it's the strategic thing to do. Taking every hill is not a strategy especially when you are using and fighting for a very limited resource - mind share.

As you (BearHunter) mention DNA, etc i suspect we are likely basically respectfully agree to disagree. Further I suspect my comments on TWIC and credentialing have likely already riled up other mariners (along of course with anyone who is a libertarian, as what I am really talking about is a national ID card, which for all intents and purposes is what a passport is...at least IMO.
 
tankercaptain said:
He should be more upset that his son spent $135 on a TWIC card then would have to go spend $85 for TSA precheck and have it done at the same facility, by the same people and on the same hardware, software and background check as the TWIC card.
By the way I've seen USNA mids enjoy TSA precheck for the past year. As long as they had a CAC card they can utilize precheck.
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Besides being the same facility and the same background check, I especially got a chuckle out of the fact that the TWIC was NOT acceptable documentation for the Known Traveler Number required for the TSA Precheck. Also amusing is that I got the TSA precheck far more frequently before I had a KTN than after. . . . but I DO book a lot of last minute flights. . .
 
bearhunter66 said:
The strategic problem I care about is the fact that KP is unique but it is not recognized as such. As evidenced by this particular issue:

a) Vice Chairman of Joint Chiefs referring to policy as apply to "all United States Service Academy cadets and midshipman"

b) Director of the TSA referring to policy is "the least the agency can do for members of the nation's military and service academies"
Click to expand...

Would you be as upset if he simply changed his remarks to say "military academies" instead of "service academies"? In which case his remarks would be consistent to applying to only USCGA, USAFA, USMA, and USNA. KP is a fantastic institution that serves a necessary purpose, but it is not a military academy and the mids are not on active duty.

bearhunter66 said:
As I previously indicated, provide a solid reason why the policy should not apply to KP mids, properly communicate it, and I'm good to go.
Click to expand...

I think their "solid reason" is "active duty military" which does not apply to KP mids. They should have "properly communicated it" more clearly.
 
Freda'sMom,
Upset is too strong of a word. Yes, I would have been fine if they communicated the criteria (i.e. active duty) and they specified a good rationale why USMMA should be excluded.

I won't even wade into the TWIC debate other than to point out that the TWIC is one acceptable form of picture ID to obtain a Global Entry or Pre-Check status but the TSA obviously does not feel that the TWIC, on its own, is good enough to get one into the programs.

Jasper,
I understand the point and agree about picking battles. If I had an audience with a MOC, this would not be on the short list except maybe as an example of a larger point. My intention (as related to the PreCheck issue) is to ask Pistole (via letter) what the rationale is.

I am President of a firm that underwrites cat coverage, takes risk and places reinsurance for the excess. I suppress my DNA daily to prioritize and balance strategy vs tactics. I am also in an airport and glad I paid the $$$ for the Global Entry card. If my DS must have the same, he is a big boy and can go through the process. Worth a skirmish but not worth dying over...

We can agree to disagree about KP being recognized for its uniqueness - The Best Kept Secret - and all the baggage that comes with that...

BH
 
Being a well kept secret has far fewer benefits than we want to admit.

A few years ago there was no precheck. Every time I traveled on orders, I had to go through additional screening. How THAT made sense, I'll never know.

"Lt. LITS, with his top secret clearance, is travelling on the taxpayers dime, on orders authorized by a federal agency... let's put him through ANOTHER puffer machine."
 
I take approximately 100 commercial flights per year. I go through dozens of different airports and see hundreds of different TSA agents over that timeframe.

I can tell you that there is no consistent application of any of the procedures used to clear passengers (civilian or military). Every time I think I figure it out something changes.

It may be an individual TSA agents misinterpretation of a policy or a clever security ploy to constantly change the game. If it is the latter, this would be the most effective government program I have ever encountered! More likely, it is the former.

Being a frequent traveler I admit to being frustrated when I guess wrong on this stuff. I was pre-check this morning but not this afternoon (for instance). I have to remind myself to go with the flow. You just have to take it all in stride.
 
Even the green form II IDs have the 10 digit DoD ID number. I haven't tried it but I would imagine that it would work. Its the same number you use to get benefits, like access to the NEX website.
 
beyond said:
Even the green form II IDs have the 10 digit DoD ID number. I haven't tried it but I would imagine that it would work. Its the same number you use to get benefits, like access to the NEX website.
Click to expand...

So do all midshipman get a Dad form 2 (green ID) now? If you have a green ID with a DoD number you use that as your known traveler ID number when booking flights and then you get the TSA precheck on your boarding pass
 
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bearhunter66 said:
Freda'sMom,
Upset is too strong of a word. Yes, I would have been fine if they communicated the criteria (i.e. active duty) and they specified a good rationale why USMMA should be excluded.

I won't even wade into the TWIC debate other than to point out that the TWIC is one acceptable form of picture ID to obtain a Global Entry or Pre-Check status but the TSA obviously does not feel that the TWIC, on its own, is good enough to get one into the programs.

Jasper,
I understand the point and agree about picking battles. If I had an audience with a MOC, this would not be on the short list except maybe as an example of a larger point. My intention (as related to the PreCheck issue) is to ask Pistole (via letter) what the rationale is.

I am President of a firm that underwrites cat coverage, takes risk and places reinsurance for the excess. I suppress my DNA daily to prioritize and balance strategy vs tactics. I am also in an airport and glad I paid the $$$ for the Global Entry card. If my DS must have the same, he is a big boy and can go through the process. Worth a skirmish but not worth dying over...

We can agree to disagree about KP being recognized for its uniqueness - The Best Kept Secret - and all the baggage that comes with that...

BH
Click to expand...

Did your son receive a DD form 2? If so this whole thread is a moot point.
 
Yes, every mid gets a form II ID, third tri plebe year. I'm about to book thanksgiving flights.... so I'll let everyone know what happens.
 
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