TWE Letter- Details & ?'s

From the looks of the replies to my initial post the envelope stuffing last week was TWE's and not much else. It still stings knowing how many athletes have been 'warehoused/red-shirted' at NAPS (with an almost automatic appointment) or if I had simply checked a different box on the application my application would have been viewed very differently.

Even though the letter says 1,250 spots in the Class of 2015 the reality is; deduct 30% female; deduct 15% minorities; deduct X% atheletes & NAPS and you are vying for one of about 600 spots. If this fact was well known I bet the number of applications would drop-off considerably. It's a crap shoot with poor odds.

It's still going to take time.....
 
Even though the letter says 1,250 spots in the Class of 2015 the reality is; deduct 30% female . . .

First, the percentage of women at USNA is about 22%, not 30%.

Second, USNA admissions are gender blind and have been for at least the past 15 yrs.

What that means is that women are not segregated for application or appointment purposes. About 20-25% of applications come from women. If USNA simply selects the best candidates (regardless of gender), it will get 20-25% women appointees. So, spaces are not "reserved" for women.

The role of race/ethnicity and athletes has been much debated on this forum; I won't rehash that debate here.
 
Just to look at those figures and what usna1985 said, those facts list a total of 2256 female applications total and 8764 applications total. Meaning that females make up 20% the application pool. Sounds like a pretty gender blind admission process to me if enrollment is about 20% women.

This doesn't speak to recruits/race/ethnicity, just the gender bit.
 
Agree with TMSUSNA.

Naval Academy needs to be more forthcoming each year about admissions stats, like those that were provided in the hometownannapolis.com article. We as taxpayers deserve to know, and the process needs to become less secretive. In my opinion, the expense of NAPS to taxpayers needs some serious scrutiny.

Everyone was so encouraging to my child about two noms, good grades and SATs in the top 25% of the applicant pool, extensive navy family background, etc, etc. He got his hopes up far more than he should have. As intelligent people, if we had seen facts as were provided in the spreadsheet hometownannapolis.com earlier, we would have understood the numbers better and prepared our child more for rejection. The odds were definitely against him from a competitive district, more than we had been led to believe.

I am glad my child is still enthusastic to serve.
 
First, the percentage of women at USNA is about 22%, not 30%.

Second, USNA admissions are gender blind and have been for at least the past 15 yrs.

What that means is that women are not segregated for application or appointment purposes. About 20-25% of applications come from women. If USNA simply selects the best candidates (regardless of gender), it will get 20-25% women appointees. So, spaces are not "reserved" for women.

The role of race/ethnicity and athletes has been much debated on this forum; I won't rehash that debate here.

With respect, those percentages don't happen in a gender and color blind process. If gender and race where not boxes to check on the application, those percentages would be very different.

However, I understand the need for diversity in the officer corps. I have no problem with the Academy trying to recruit minorities. What I do mind are extreme differences in the percentages and being told that the process doesn't exist.

My S is very dissappointed and has an understanding that the group he is applying from is the most competitive. However, he wants to take another try and for that I am very proud.
 
LTLONGAGO, I agree with all your posts. It has been a disappointing day here. I also wonder if there are limited slots for children of alumni. There's a quota for everyone else--seems like there would be a quota for that too.



Plus, we applied to NROTC back in August. The recruiter and interviewer said DS would have "no problem" getting the scholarship. We have heard nothing. DS has great stats, blah, blah, blah...

Very disappointed in the whole process.
 
I agree - Diversity is needed and wanted. Athletes are needed and wanted. But, in the end, don't we really just want intelligent, fit people who will lead well and make good decisions under pressure, regardless of race, gender, sports talent, etc?

The USNA admissions process just needed to be more honest and transparent from the start. Good on the Annapolis newspaper for providing some real numbers to help kids and parents better understand the numbers.
 
To the best of my knowledge, there are no slots "reserved" for children of alums. I have many classmates whose kids with very strong packages got the TWE. Those with parents or siblings who are military (not necessarily USNA grads) get VERY slight bumps -- it almost never makes the difference. As a general rule, someone with no military ties has as much of a chance at an appointment as someone with strong military ties.

As for gender, the last thing I'll say on this point is that USNA admissions are gender blind and have been for many years. USNA needs to know if someone is male or female for various reasons (medical, CFA, assigning roommates) -- that doesn't mean that gender makes a difference in the admissions process. You can choose to believe what you will -- for some, even facts may not be able to change perception.

Getting the TWE is obviously disappointing. Many, many great candidates end up in that situation, including many of the candidates with whom I've worked. I'm not here to defend the process; I only try the best that I can to explain it. And sometimes I can't.
 
That's what I was saying....my husband is an alum of USNA. We also know many sons and daughters of alumni who have received the TWE. I was implying that perhaps the alumni sons and daughters may get grouped together and only a certain percentage will get the appointement--just like a certain % go to NAPS, minority status, etc.

Not trying to start an argument. It is what it is. It would just be nice to have more transparency as others have stated.
 
To the best of my knowledge, there are no slots "reserved" for children of alums. I have many classmates whose kids with very strong packages got the TWE. Those with parents or siblings who are military (not necessarily USNA grads) get VERY slight bumps -- it almost never makes the difference. As a general rule, someone with no military ties has as much of a chance at an appointment as someone with strong military ties.

As for gender, the last thing I'll say on this point is that USNA admissions are gender blind and have been for many years. USNA needs to know if someone is male or female for various reasons (medical, CFA, assigning roommates) -- that doesn't mean that gender makes a difference in the admissions process. You can choose to believe what you will -- for some, even facts may not be able to change perception.

Getting the TWE is obviously disappointing. Many, many great candidates end up in that situation, including many of the candidates with whom I've worked. I'm not here to defend the process; I only try the best that I can to explain it. And sometimes I can't.

Again, with respect, those percentages aren't perception and can't be explained as chance.

Thanks for your posts though, they have been very informative.

Take care.
 
TWE in Georgia

My DS received his TWE in Georgia today. He's going to take some time before deciding which college offer to accept and then whether to reapply. RE: trying again, I'm struggling with what advice to give him. Is a repeat applicant considered in the "candidate score" as it is calculated? Realistically, what else could change in his application between this year and next?

Sure he could bump his SAT (low 1300s/1940 overall) a few points but he's taken it so many times you don't expect much. His resume was pretty strong - GPA, physical fitness, leadership, service, summer seminar, awards and recognition, etc., etc., etc. He had three nominations to USNA - both senators and his congressman (who nominated him to both USNA and USMA). I know he's my kid but I catch myself asking what else is USNA looking for...

The net is he could solidify his SAT scores, take the ROTC route and finish a freshman year at Georgia Tech - and maybe pick up a fourth nomination from his ROTC commander - but how much would that improve his standing? Would all that really change his chances all that much? At what point do you say "that door is closed" and move on?
 
The decision regarding whether to reapply is a personal one. I've had candidates who have reapplied, been accepted, and then struggled regarding whether to leave their civilian school (where they are very happy) to "start over" at USNA. Have one now trying to make this difficult decision.

My suggestion . . . in fairness, having not been through the experience personally . . . is to let a month or so pass. Move on to Plan B with 100% commitment. And then, come the summer, see if the desire for USNA is still there. Even then, come December, after a semester at civilian college, desire may change.

I can't tell you that, if a candidate does everything USNA says to do for re-applicants, things will turn out differently in Year 2. I've seen it happen and seen it not happen.
 
I was a candidate for 2014 and 2015 and received by TWE for the second time today. If you plan on reapplying a second time, you will get extra points for showing the true desire to go to USNA, but you really do need to strive for perfection in all areas of your application, as anything less wont cut it with so many qualified candidates. For example, I got a 1360/2060 on my SATs, took 10 AP classes averaging a 4 on the exams, a 4.67 GPA during junior and senior year of high school and almost straight A's so far in college, studying mechanical engineering. I maxed in almost all areas of the CFA and had nominations from my MOC both times. Good luck to those who are reapplying, I definitely recommend doing it, but don't think that just because its your second time around you will have an easier time with the application.
 

Each year USNA posts a profile of stats relating to the newest class of MIDs. Below is a link to the Class of 2014 profile. The profile speaks to (and I think answers) the questions about the number of slots there are for categories of applicants and what the Naval Academy values in an applicant. If you look at a profile from one year to the next, the info is consistent. The Class of 2015 profile should be available after the summer.

http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/USNA 2014 Class Portrait.pdf

I am very disappointed and sorry for those with the TWE because I personally do know how much time and effort (and the roller coaster of waiting) that goes into an application to a Service Academy. I still have enough faith in the system to believe that everything happens for a reason (though we may not always understand what that reason is at the time). Embrace your Plan B as if it was your first choice, be the best you can be and reapply if you still have the desire.
 
:( TWE

TWE for DD here in South Jersey. Ouch. Best of luck to those of you still in the running! :thumb:
 
I see Eagle scout is no longer listed in the class profile...but part time job is listed ?
 
From what I have read here this year about kids reapplying to USNA, it seems that the wisest strategy is try one's best, but be emotionally prepared for a possible second disappointment. Life is short, so hopefully kids won't spend a whole second year fretting too much about getting into the Naval Academy.

If they choose to reapply, it seems wise to: get the best grades possible in college, especially in math, science and engineering; get a tutor to focus on weak sections of the SAT/ACT and retake (SAT scores below 2200 seem worth retaking); do sports; be a leader in ways that matter to USNA (figure that out?); spend time to create very thorough USNA and nomination applications, and do them early; continue to update the Academy with new information and successes as the year progesses; but, also enjoy freshman year until the results come out. It doesn't hurt to try to get inside support in congressional offices (I saw a few kids in the DC area whose parents were successful at networking to make helpful connections.) I would guess that strong recommendations from NROTC unit commanders and/or from current (or even retired) navy captains or admirals (especially any who were USNA grads) would be bonuses as well. I saw during this year of college applications that connections can help, not just at USNA, but all over. Send more recommendations than the minimum required, if you have additional ones that enhance your record.

In the end, the grass is not always greener on the other side. The person at my child's high school, who has had an LOA since early in the fall, recently decided that the grass was greener at another college, and just turned down her USNA appointment. She is a good friend, but it was still a little hard for my son to hear her hesitation about USNA all year, when he would gladly have taken her place.

Hopefully all the kids, in and out of the USNA, will flourish wherever they are. Mine is now so excited about his Plan B that he can't wait to get there, while I am trying to slow time down and enjoy the precious days before he goes!
 
From what I have read here this year about kids reapplying to USNA, it seems that the wisest strategy is try one's best, but be emotionally prepared for a possible second disappointment.

I would second that. Reapplying is no guarantee of an appointment, even if one does "all of the right things." There are too many great candidates and too few spots.

If they choose to reapply, it seems wise to: get the best grades possible in college, especially in math, science and engineering; get a tutor to focus on weak sections of the SAT/ACT and retake (SAT scores below 2200 seem worth retaking); do sports; be a leader in ways that matter to USNA (figure that out?)

Let me amend this a little. You need to get good grades in the right courses -- especially calc, chem, and/or physics. Retaking SATs isn't that important for college applicants; it can be for prep school applicants. USNA doesn't look at the writing section -- only the math and verbal with a somewhat greater emphasis on math. Also, sports and leadership aren't as important for college freshmen, assuming those weren't areas of weakness in h.s.

It doesn't hurt to try to get inside support in congressional offices (I saw a few kids in the DC area whose parents were successful at networking to make helpful connections.)

My personal opinion based on having served on an MOC's nominating committee in the past and having been a BGO for more than a decade is that this really NOT necessary. 99% of kids get noms solely on the merits, not b/c they or their parents "know someone." As I've stated before, my parents were actively working to unseat the MOC who gave me my nom. MOCs try hard to avoid charges of nepotism. While I don't always agree with the decisions they make, I've not seen anything to suggest those decisions are politically motivated.

I would guess that strong recommendations from NROTC unit commanders and/or from current (or even retired) navy captains or admirals (especially any who were USNA grads) would be bonuses as well.

Yes and no. Yes on NROTC if you are in the unit. As far as letters of recs from military officers/grads -- ONLY IF THEY KNOW THE CANDIDATE WELL. I cannot emphasize this enough. Finding an admiral alum who has known your DS/DD for all of an afternoon, a week, a month, etc. WILL NOT HELP. And, quite honestly, it only annoys the admissions folks who see right through it.

If you happen to have known a senior military officer for a long time such that the person can make valuable comments about you, it might help A LITTLE. That said, I'm aware of a reapplying candidate who's parent is an admiral, and many children of O-6s (Captains) who got TWEs over the past several years. And many kids with zero military ties do just fine in the admissions process -- I have 3 appointees this year and none has any military ties.

Send more recommendations than the minimum required, if you have additional ones that enhance your record.

Please don't -- unless they add something to your packet that isn't already there. Examples of "good" extra reps: most of your ECAs are church-related, so you get one from your pastor. You work every day after school, so you get one from your employer. Extra recs that merely repeat what your teachers and BGO say aren't going to help.

In the end, the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Very true. Many, many people who are crushed at receiving the TWE from USNA end up extremely happy at their Plan B -- so much so that they may turn down an appointment they received when they reapplied. And that's not a bad thing. Maybe that's what was meant to be.

There is no "magic" formula in reapplying any more than there is in applying for the first time. The sticky above provides helpful advice (from USNA Admissions) but, it's only that. It's not a guarantee.

Embrace your new Plan A. If you still have the desire to attend USNA, reapply but, as the above poster notes, be balanced in your approach. If it works out, you have two great choices (stay where you are or leave for USNA). If it doesn't, you still have the great school where you are.
 
It doesn't hurt to try to get inside support in congressional offices (I saw a few kids in the DC area whose parents were successful at networking to make helpful connections.)

USNA1985 summed up the previous post really well. Also, remember, USNA makes the ultimate appointment decisiosn -- the nomination is just a step. A nomination is in no way a guarantee appointment.
 
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