AspiringSEAL
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Wow. That is a very impressive resume. If you don't mind me asking, where are you from?
TWE
- Thread starter nge2457
- Start date
ca2nemom,
Sadly, I am sure this is exactly what happens every year at all of the SA's. There are SO MANY kids who have amazingly, impressive resumes at age 17-18 that as the parent, it is hard to believe when our DD/DS [who we have watched grow and "work their butts off"] ends up not receiving an appointment. I am VERY nervous that this coming week is the TWE week just because the odds are only getting worse against these exceptional and fine young men and women.
My own "parent plan B" is going to be to do exactly what you did. If/when the dreaded TWE arrives, I plan on sharing my son's profile with all of these wonderful and kind forum friends to help myself feel better. Whether anyone reads it or not, I know that it will help me heal if I can share his accomplishments in writing. I think my DS's profile will be comparable to many or all on this forum and I think that's why we are so heartbroken and dumbfounded when the TWE does arrive. We have all said at one time or another: "If they don't take [fill in your DD/DS's name here], WHO ARE THEY TAKING?!?!" Right? Have we all thought that at least once or said it aloud? I know I have!
It is candidates with resumes like your son who are applying to the USNA and that is something very new for each candidate. They've always been the top, the best, the strongest, etc. and for most, this is the first time they are competing against other people exactly like them. Tough, tough competition.
I am SO sorry about the TWE because your son sounds extraordinary! After you give him a big hug, give yourself a hug, then pat yourself on the back for raising such a fine young man who will obviously do well wherever he ends up going.
Sadly, I am sure this is exactly what happens every year at all of the SA's. There are SO MANY kids who have amazingly, impressive resumes at age 17-18 that as the parent, it is hard to believe when our DD/DS [who we have watched grow and "work their butts off"] ends up not receiving an appointment. I am VERY nervous that this coming week is the TWE week just because the odds are only getting worse against these exceptional and fine young men and women.
My own "parent plan B" is going to be to do exactly what you did. If/when the dreaded TWE arrives, I plan on sharing my son's profile with all of these wonderful and kind forum friends to help myself feel better. Whether anyone reads it or not, I know that it will help me heal if I can share his accomplishments in writing. I think my DS's profile will be comparable to many or all on this forum and I think that's why we are so heartbroken and dumbfounded when the TWE does arrive. We have all said at one time or another: "If they don't take [fill in your DD/DS's name here], WHO ARE THEY TAKING?!?!" Right? Have we all thought that at least once or said it aloud? I know I have!
It is candidates with resumes like your son who are applying to the USNA and that is something very new for each candidate. They've always been the top, the best, the strongest, etc. and for most, this is the first time they are competing against other people exactly like them. Tough, tough competition.
I am SO sorry about the TWE because your son sounds extraordinary! After you give him a big hug, give yourself a hug, then pat yourself on the back for raising such a fine young man who will obviously do well wherever he ends up going.
AspiringSEAL
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because your location could be a factor of why you didn't get in.
Your son does sound exceptional and I am sorry for your disappointment. As a current Plebe, I can't stress enough how many mids here are possibly that accomplished and more. It is a very bitter pill. If I were to make any suggestions, and I apologize if this is inappropriate at this time, the 28 in math ACT may have been deemed too low in such a competitive class. Also, I don't know if you mentioned this or not, but does your son participate in a sport? Either individual or team? They value that experience here as well.
Good luck to your son and I hope things work out for him.
Good luck to your son and I hope things work out for him.
I believe that most (if not all) who respond on this forum are truly trying to comfort you by giving you solid statistics and information from past knowledge and experience. I haven't noticed anyone "arguing" with you and I believe "Sledge" was saying there is a big difference between being # 1, # 2 or even #3 on the slate---I don't think he was implying your son was #3. If you take a breath and read through some of the posts from even a few days ago, before you joined, you will see that most on here are in the same boat as you are and it's a very, very unique grieving process in regards to the TWE. I suggest reading all of the posts particularly from this past Friday (Mar 27) on the TWE thread. They are heartbreaking posts and I found myself sobbing through all of them...but it may help you to put into perspective how many people are experiencing the same pain as you are feeling and that may also be therapeutic for you.
I can't speak for everyone on this forum, but no one is arguing your son's impressive profile; it is truly extraordinary. Also, please try to read the post from this evening from a current Plebe who makes a great point about the credentials of many/all who are currently at the academy. I hope you feel better once the initial sting fades. If/when my DS's TWE arrives, I plan on using every piece of advice I have read on here to help me make my son feel better…and make me feel better.
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Thanks for the info and kind words it's been a long trying weekend and DS just got home today from leading a 4 day regional convention to get the letter from Friday I was disappointed for him but he's fine waiting still on USMA and if not he will go to University of Nebraska ROTC He was accepted in College of Engineering and was chosen for scholarship to be in the Chancellors Leadership Program then he's determined to reapply going to wait on The Citadel and Norwich he said in order to be close to reapply to redo nomination interviews.
I've been really hesitant to weigh in on this as we've already been through the whole nomination/appointment process with two mids and really don't have skin in the game anymore.
However, that said - I think it important to clearly restate that USNA is no different than any other NCAA Division One school - and a very small one at that - which takes its performance in NCAA D-I athletics very very seriously. It's an image thing.
This unfortunately leads to a very painful to see double standard in Admissions where in theory USNA's mission is supposedly to appoint the best and the brightest while in reality some recruited athletes are far from that standard in almost every category other than athletic ability.
A case in point with an example I directly know is true:
A senior football athlete and very talented running back was given an official NCAA to the Academy where he and his parents flew to Annapolis, spent extensive time with the Navy Football coaching staff and was specifically told that if he could raise his ACT composite from 16 to an 18, he would at least be assured NAPS if not the Academy. Please understand that this is a good kid who was adopted from another country when he was eleven, still has a few minor language issues but works hard in school and is active in a number of school and community activities.
The point is that there is a true double standard at USNA regarding recruited athletes; and nothing is going to change until USNA changes its attitude regarding competing successfully at a high level in NCAA D-I (a real old-boy, youbetcha tradition) and realizes that that Annapolis is a school of only 4500 students that in reality should be playing D-II or even D-III sports and concentrating on its real mission - training the best and brightest to become future leaders.
As I said earlier, we no longer have skin in this game but I will tell you that both of our mids were also recruited athletes but they were athletes with lots of leadership, great grades and top-end SAT/ACT scores.
I also must tell you that they discuss the qualification disconnects when they are away from the Yard and find it pretty disgusting.
Unfortunately, nothing will change unless voters, Congress and more specifically the Senate and House Armed Services Committees start dismantling the macho NCAA D-I "we gotta be the best" attitudes at all of the Service Academies - not just Navy. We taxpayers pay the bill and its up to us and to our elected representatives to help the Service Academies get off their athletics' public relations bandwagon and start concentrating primarily on the job they are tasked to do.
However, that said - I think it important to clearly restate that USNA is no different than any other NCAA Division One school - and a very small one at that - which takes its performance in NCAA D-I athletics very very seriously. It's an image thing.
This unfortunately leads to a very painful to see double standard in Admissions where in theory USNA's mission is supposedly to appoint the best and the brightest while in reality some recruited athletes are far from that standard in almost every category other than athletic ability.
A case in point with an example I directly know is true:
A senior football athlete and very talented running back was given an official NCAA to the Academy where he and his parents flew to Annapolis, spent extensive time with the Navy Football coaching staff and was specifically told that if he could raise his ACT composite from 16 to an 18, he would at least be assured NAPS if not the Academy. Please understand that this is a good kid who was adopted from another country when he was eleven, still has a few minor language issues but works hard in school and is active in a number of school and community activities.
The point is that there is a true double standard at USNA regarding recruited athletes; and nothing is going to change until USNA changes its attitude regarding competing successfully at a high level in NCAA D-I (a real old-boy, youbetcha tradition) and realizes that that Annapolis is a school of only 4500 students that in reality should be playing D-II or even D-III sports and concentrating on its real mission - training the best and brightest to become future leaders.
As I said earlier, we no longer have skin in this game but I will tell you that both of our mids were also recruited athletes but they were athletes with lots of leadership, great grades and top-end SAT/ACT scores.
I also must tell you that they discuss the qualification disconnects when they are away from the Yard and find it pretty disgusting.
Unfortunately, nothing will change unless voters, Congress and more specifically the Senate and House Armed Services Committees start dismantling the macho NCAA D-I "we gotta be the best" attitudes at all of the Service Academies - not just Navy. We taxpayers pay the bill and its up to us and to our elected representatives to help the Service Academies get off their athletics' public relations bandwagon and start concentrating primarily on the job they are tasked to do.
Your DS is absolutely amazing. His resilience is commendable and his resume is a true testament to the harshly competitive environment this year. Your son WILL SUCCEED anywhere!!
USAFA83GradWife
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ca2nemom,
I'm so sorry to hear about your son's TWE (as I am about all who received disappointing news). You have obviously raised an exceptional son. Without a doubt, he has impressive credentials! Any who have made it this far in the game is a truly exceptional candidate.
But no one knows the minds of the admissions people. We can make educated guesses, but that is all. Honestly, I don't envy their jobs. They get thousands of applicants who have very impressive credentials. What I do know is that your DS can contact the admissions counselor and ask what it was that was lacking, if anything. Or maybe it was as simple as there being too many great candidates from your state.
One of the things my husband told DD was, "Once you get there, be ready to be 'average'."
I truly hope your DS tries again next year. Given what you've said about him, it sounds like something he would do. Good luck to him and to you.
I'm so sorry to hear about your son's TWE (as I am about all who received disappointing news). You have obviously raised an exceptional son. Without a doubt, he has impressive credentials! Any who have made it this far in the game is a truly exceptional candidate.
But no one knows the minds of the admissions people. We can make educated guesses, but that is all. Honestly, I don't envy their jobs. They get thousands of applicants who have very impressive credentials. What I do know is that your DS can contact the admissions counselor and ask what it was that was lacking, if anything. Or maybe it was as simple as there being too many great candidates from your state.
One of the things my husband told DD was, "Once you get there, be ready to be 'average'."
I truly hope your DS tries again next year. Given what you've said about him, it sounds like something he would do. Good luck to him and to you.
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That sounds like a great plan for him and I'm sure he will excel!!
Wow Bubalma you just confirmed exactly what I thought might have happened and thank you for doing this NOW I feel better as I knew there was no way every athlete there scored perfect ACTS my other DS a sophomore played football freshman year and had to go to study hall with these kids he's a 5.0 perfect grade student number 13 out of 500 in his class and they were told they only needed a 2.0 to continue playing football needless to say he also is in JROTC soon to be CSM with superior cadet medals like his brother, drill and color guard Commander teaching exhibition drill to the cadets, he's also the lead Jazz guitar player in the entire school, show choir and in all musicals and plays AP physics and AP Calculus and he no longer plays football he'd rather take the intellectual route he's already been invited to Harvard and Stanford and George Wasington University Medical School Sunmer leadership programs and is a very young President of his youth organization following in brothers footsteps. I knew it's all about the sports and he did it for a year but something should be said for the bright future leaders of America! These kids only have so much time in a school day his football coach told him he could only commit to football or leave he choose to be with the bright kids of the future and left but he loved football smart kid don't want to ruin his brain with concussions coming from his physician mother! I commend you for speaking up regarding recruited sports players! I know that the kids not recruited for sports and some that are but not all are like my DS's with lots of accolades but how many seats did the athletes take so these other bright promising well rounded kids sit on the sidelines? Really ACT of 17 or 18 and a 33 from my son is not good enough? I was told NAPS is just for athletes to get their grades up not for kids like mine and then they get into the Academy without having to struggle to be accepted? Thanks for finally making me feel better with the truth no one else would say!
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It's understandable that feelings are still somewhat raw but please don't paint all athletes with the same brush. I was a recruited athlete by several top notch schools. I also scored 36 in my math act, top of my class, national ap scholar, state champion in my sport, other etc ' s including leadership while working part time year round, etc...And here at usna, I'm average, like everybody else.
Like last year's posts, I guess the natural inclination is to turn pain into blame and recruited athletes are perfect targets. Again I am sorry your son received a TWE. It doesn't seem right.
Joedoe:
As I stated in my original post, there are many exceptional, all-around qualified recruited athletes at Navy and I'm very proud that our two Mids are part of that group.
You are on the Yard just as our two Mids are; you know how things really are and you know what I originally posted is absolutely as true now as it was when I was on the Yard many years ago.
I am not saying in any way that most recruited athletes are sub-par in areas other than athletics; but you also know that the Academy will bend the public relations manta on a somewhat regular basis in order to fill a perceived D-1 athletic need and by doing so reach out to a number of individuals each year who many would consider unqualified for appointment. I suspect you may know or know of a few of those Mids yourself - particularly if you are in a major NCAA D-I sport.
It's been this way for over a century and will probably continue unless Congressionally dictated change is mandated.
That doesn't make it right.
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bubalama, you would know that these individuals would not make great leaders...how? I know a lot of recruited athletes, who definitely were not academic super-stars, BUT they were great leaders and as far as I know, most of these same individuals performed well (or are still continuing to perform well) in their military careers. Every company will have a few individuals who probably should have never been appointed, HOWEVER, these individuals are not always the recruited varsity athletes. I think the BROAD generalization that you make is more the exception than the rule. To imply, in your original post, that this is an extreme problem, is not only wrong and unfair to all recruited athletes, but does not factor in what the mission of USNA is...to graduate LEADERS for USN/USMC, our community, and government. The missions isn't to graduate scholars.
sorry didn't mean to offend you personally I didn't say all athletes just "some" citing my younger sons personal dealings with his football team and from what she wrote I was commenting on her true story above about the kid with act of 16 nothing more, you sound like an amazing athlete not the kind I know that are recruited from the high school here. Maintaining a 2.5 is difficult for most of the good players here and is a real problem here statewide I personally know an amazing quarterback recruited to a great school with a majority of failing classes it occurs a lot here and is a real problem for the coaching staff. You sound like a very bright exception to the norm here. Congrats on all you have accomplished!
nodiva
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It seems to be a disappointing week(end) all the way around. Tempers are running hot but let's not dump on admissions and the job they do. Is USNA perfect? Doubtful. I always wince when I read a post from someone who has kids at USNA and they complain. What? Pull your Mids out if you're that disgusted. But let's not judge the job admissions does. NO ONE ON THIS FORUM KNOWS THE WHOLE STORY OF ANY POSTER HERE. Sure a parent can rant about receiving a TWE but to pile on admissions/athletes in an effort to make a parent feel better is wrong.
Exactly what BROAD generalization did I make?
I think I stated very clearly that most recruited athletes are well qualified but that Admissions is not hesitant to bend the qualification guidelines in order to appoint a recruited athlete that a Navy coaching staff really wants.
I don't think anyone - including you or I - has a crystal ball that can forecast which mids will eventually make great officers - whether they be a recruited athlete or not.
I'm not addressing eventual outcomes - I'm talking about the standards USNA wants the tax-paying public and Congress to believe and then the reality that those standards are bent on a somewhat regular basis because of D-I sports.
The Academy does want well-rounded Mids - both academically and athletically - but is willing to fudge if perceived needs dictate it.
It's the plain and simple truth and I can certainly list more cases of academically sub-par recruited athletes I've encountered over the years and I'll bet you can too.
Some of them turn out O.K. but some don't and need a lot of guidance. That can be very frustrating.