Type 7 Pays 100%? University of Illinois vs Georgia Tech

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by xray328, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    My DS was awarded a AFROTC Type 7 Scholarship for Aerospace Engineering. He was also recently accepted to Georgia Tech (Ranked #2 for AE) after being deferred from MIT. Unfortunately, it looks like GT is going to be too expensive to attend even with a converted Type 7. So he's now looking at the University of Illinois (Ranked #6 for AE) since that's in state. I called down there but the recruiter is away at Maxwell AFB so I spoke to the secretary who said that the Type 7 will pay for 100% of his tuition, some for his books but of course nothing for room and board.

    Is that true, will the Type 7 pay for 100% tuition in state, regardless of the cost? U of I is on the expensive side at $31,216 a year for tuition only. For some reason I thought there was an $18,000 cap.

    I think this is one of those no brainers, but is GT worth the extra cost to attend ($48,566 a year)? That's gonna be over $200k even with the converted Type 7. U of I looks to be around $50k? Rumor has it that freshman at GT are being offered summer internships from some big name companies and SpaceX is pulling their graduates right out of school

    U of I also has a state sponsored 100% tuition waiver for ROTC students. She said they have 40 per year to give out and right now they have 75 or so cadets.

    She also mentioned that U of I is especially tough on it's freshman engineering students to weed out those that don't have what it takes. Any truth to that?

    My son's info:

    4.72 Weighted / 4.0 GPA
    #2/655 Public HS
    35 Cumulative ACT, 36 Math 36 Science 1540 SAT, 800 Math II, 740 Physics
    President NHS, Co-President Worldwide Youth in Science and Engineering (WYSE)
    Spanish National Honor Society
    Cadet Commander, Earhart Award Civil Air Patrol
    Varsity Track/Soccer
    AP Scholar with Distinction
    Boys State

    He's also applied to Stanford, Rensselaer, University of Michigan, University of Wisconsin Madison, Purdue and Cal Tech.


    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. eljay60

    eljay60 AFROTC parent, former ANC in USAR

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    Congrats to your son, xray! The $18,000 limit is for a type 2 scholarship. So long as it is in state school, a type 7 will cover the whole bill. Some of the schools will pick up room and board for the students - my son's school does on a first come first serve basis for so many of the AROTC and AFROTC scholarships (I've heard it's twelve each, but I'm not sure). I've heard his school also charges in-state tuition to scholarship recipients, so others might do the same.
     
  3. catlover99

    catlover99 Member

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    For in-state, U of I Engineering tuition is only $20,872 (out of state is $31,988 at the lowest). Source: https://admissions.illinois.edu/Invest/tuition . Also, the tuition waiver is 40 waivers for all ROTC programs at U of I, not just AFROTC. According to the U of I site, "Waivers shall be awarded at each university on the basis of the equivalent of 10 scholarships per class, per branch of service, each academic year." (http://www.pb.uillinois.edu/what-we...tuition/policy-on-tuition-and-fee-waivers.cfm).

    I received a Type 7 as well, and I believe the cap is for Type 2 scholarships (either 4 year or converted 3 year), which are capped at 18k per year. So for U of I, it seems that a Type 7 would be worth more than a Type 2 (since in-state tuition is around 20k).

    (please correct me if I am wrong about any of this!)
     
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  4. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    You're correct catlover99, I was looking at the total cost including room and board.

    So U of I would be around $12,000 for R/B a year for $48,000 while GT would be $50,000 for year one then $32k a year x 3 for a total of $146,000. I'm just wondering if GT is worth the extra $100k in the long run or if having that kind of debt as a fresh AF officer even makes sense. We discussed the same scenario with MIT and both think it might be given the prestige MIT carries. Not sure about that with GT, even though it's the #2 school.
     
  5. Skipper07

    Skipper07 Member

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    IMPO, go the route with no debt. I do not think that the GT prestige will matter once your son gets out of the AF. He will have hands on leadership experience to make up for it (and possibly engineering experience depending on his service selection). Both schools have stellar engineering programs. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.

    Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
     
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  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Agree with Skipper7. #1 vs #6 is not much of a difference. Check with U of Illinois for placement of Areo engineering majors. I bet it's outstanding. Also once he's served they will be looking more at his leadership abilities vs what college he attended. Also, just as a confirmation that full tuition will be covered at U of Illinois the following is from the AFROTC web site on scholarship type descriptions...
     
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  7. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    Thanks, yeah it was that “pays the equivalent of a public school in-state rate” that I wasn’t sure about. I was thinking maybe it was some average number based on tuition numbers across the state.
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Yeah, it's the rate at the in-state public college he attends. If he's up for an SMC then Texas A&M often offers the in-state rate to ROTC participants. Not sure where they rank on Aerospace or even if they have it as a major. Might be too late to apply though (I wouldn't know).
     
  9. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    We looked at that, seems pretty intense. He went to the USAFA summer seminar and didn't like that atmosphere. Kind of a "do I need to go there to get where I want to go" thing, especially as an engineer. But yes, I'm pretty sure the deadline has passed anyway.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    Just my 0.018753 cents and with that plus $2.07 you can get a small coffee, but I would not pay the money for GT. Multiple reasons exist why I think it is not a wise move.
    1. Almost every kid at 18 wants to fly the coop. I get it, I have 3 kids and have been there and paid the check. However, that being said what they don't realize is their family roots are deeper than they can have imagine.
    ~ Yes, that football game is great, but when there is no game for the weekend the campus can empty out very quickly due to the # of IS students. Same is true for Columbus Day.
    ~~ All of my kids couldn't wait to leave, seriously they were kicking me out before the last box was out of the car! However all 3 within 6 weeks were back at home for a weekend their fall freshmen semester. And yes, it was always a weekend that the FB team had an away game. Granted by spring semester they adjusted, but still impo you need to have a financial discussion with him. Let's say he goes in debt to attend GT because it is his dream school, can you afford for him to fly home for Columbus Day weekend when the dorms clear out and he will be left alone for 3-4 days?

    2. As stated by other posters, the fact is that if he does 4 and the door, which is really 5 since they can wait 6-9 months before going ADAF, his ADAF career will matter more from an employers perspective than his undergrad, especially for companies that are affiliated with the govt., like Lockheed, Pratt & Whitney, Firestone, L3 Comm, plus the DoD..
    ~ Those companies want the person that not only knows how to speak AF as a liaison, but also that expensive TS clearance to work on projects. TS clearances are thousands of dollars and only are valid for 5 yrs. Thus, if all things are equal between applicants, and your DS has the TS, but the other doesn't than the scale may tip in his favor.

    3. The biggest aspect impo is the intended major. I get it, he has great scores, cgpa, etc., and he may love Physics/Calc., but the fact is that any Engineering school worth their weight in salt will weed out a large percentage their freshmen year. At VT they are known to do 2 things.
    ~1. Tell kids on day 1, look left, now look right. 1 of you will be gone by next yr. 2. They set up registrar desks outside the engineering building during mid-terms and finals because so many kids drop out that if they didn't the office would be clogged and the other students would have to wait for forever to be seen.
    ~2. The point is that if he decides to switch majors as a scholarship recipient he will need HQ AFROTC approval. Chances of going tech to non-tech is slim. He can stay in AFROTC, but lose the scholarship if he does get approved. Now you have a child that can't even convert into a type 2 because he left the major he was approved for by HQ. If he goes IS, it isn't as financially painful than going to GT OOS.

    4. DEBT. My DS was a type 2 recipient, he attended OOS and due to additional merit scholarship from the college, he had a free ride. He got married 2 days shy of him becoming a 1st Lt. He inherited her college loan debt, if memory serves me correct it was just shy of 100K. He is a pilot, but understand flight pay is very little in the beginning, i.e. @125 a month for the 1st 2 yrs. IOWS nothing to think it really helps. He paid a large chunk for his wedding and honeymoon. Purchased a new car for his wife (Rav4) because hers was 17 yrs old and unreliable. Purchased a home within 8 mos of the wedding. Paid off his car loan within 3 yrs of commissioning, and all the while paying her college loan debts while he invests in an IRA for both of them, and mutual funds, with no credit cad debt. Their 1st born was born 3 months after he made O3.
    ~ Yes, he can afford to absorb the debt, but what if he falls in love with a girl like my DS where she too has a lot of college debt? Just saying he will be fine if it is only his college debt he has to payback, and if he lives within his means, but if he wants to live an O3 life as an O1 with 100K debt than he will be digging a bigger hole with every month..

    Good luck..
     
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  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    It's not for everybody. DS decided he wanted a 'normal'college experience as well.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    It is common knowledge that my DS was like kinnem's. He knew he wanted to serve in the AF, but he wanted a "normal/traditional" college experience. He never regretted his decision, and I think in the end he is now even closer with my DH. The reason why is not only because they both can discuss flying (DH was an 15E WSO, DS is a C130J pilot), but because DS attended DHs alma mater. To illustrate that factor is my phone rings like crazy when MD plays basketball and football!
     
  13. pv123

    pv123 5-Year Member

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    No debt route for sure....but what if he gets accepted this April to MIT?!? Det 365 might be a game changer :)
     
  14. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    Well that’d sure be great :)

    Yeah, I think getting into Det 365 would be well worth it, fingers crossed.
     
  15. pv123

    pv123 5-Year Member

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    Being a D3 college, MIT coaches (track & soccer) love hearing from applicants via their website. My daughter filled out a form with stats to the MIT track coach online. He called her the next day and pushed her through admissions. Her stats were not that great, but it was a plus for her getting accepted. Can’t hurt right?
     
  16. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    Thanks for that. I honestly didn't think he had a qualifying time, but after looking at the requirements it's darn close. 1:59 800m makes the team if you're already admitted, he was at a 2:02 last spring. We'll get on this tonight...thanks again.
     
  17. unkown1961

    unkown1961 Member

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    My daughter is at MIT and loves the school and the detachment! She speaks really highly of the people and the support. And we're really happy from a parents' perspective. She also loves MIT - a neat thing is how many free opportunties they provide to students, from study abroad during winterim period, to talks by industry mover and shakers.
    Also, know that the aid from MIT is very, very generous: it's need based but there are no loans -for my daughter, she could have attended MIT for the same cost with or without the scholarship. So do wait for word from MIT. I'm assuming he was waitlisted at MIT from an early admission app. Keep your hopes up, MIT is one of the rare schools whose early admission rate is as tight as the regular rate. And your son has great backstory and stats!
    And check directly with GT to see if they offer additional money to AFROTC partial scholarship award winners (I believe RPI does). Also, the very selelctice schools won't be weeding out the students becuase a selection rate of 5% - 10% pretty much means they have students who can hack it at the school.
    Both of my kids are out of state and love it. There's a lot to do any holiday weekend or break. Mine even choose to stay back for Thanksgiving - which is fine with us, it saves us travel money. Another benefit of being out of state: it has done a lot for them in terms of personal and cultural growth - living in a different part of the US, experiencing that culture, and meeting people from across the country has really expanded their horizons: much like their spending half of the childhood lives living overseas (and attending foreign public schools).
    As for the additional cost, wait to see what aid the schools give. Some, like MIT, are generous. For those with a cost, you'll have to weigh everything. And as I allude to above, there is a personal growth benefit of going away that is tough to measure in terms of cost. But some may be worth it for the doors they open later in life: especially Standford and MIT. There's a reason for the consensus that HYPSM represent the top US schools and are globally ranked in the Top 5 or 10. Schools at that level can be worth the debt sometimes.
    One last suggestion would be to visit them if you can, particularly while school is in session. It'll give you all a good vibe for the school.
    Good luck - that's a great list of schools and he can't go wrong. Did your son consider Harvey Mudd?
    (FYI: MIT doesn't let students declare a major until end of sophomore year.)
     
  18. illinimidn

    illinimidn New Member

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    I go to U of I and freshman year engineering is absolutely brutal but if your kid can skip calc 2, chem102, and phys211 (or 212 dont think they let you skip both) then it is manageable. At orientation they will try to get you to retake calc 2 but dont do it. Our calc 2 has the highest fail rate on campus along with chem102 but calc3 is not hard at all. So come to U of I, our AFROTC detachment is pretty cool (well as cool as the AF can be ;) ). Also it seems like we have a lot of those in-state waivers, but I am out of state NROTC scholarship so Im not certain.
     
  19. xray328

    xray328 Member

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    He was accepted to MIT!
     
  20. unkown1961

    unkown1961 Member

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    Congrats! My daughter loves it there. You’ll be really pleased with their aid package - and it’s all grants, no loans.