Uniform Dispute : Petty or Justified?

DevilDog said:
I have not disrespected the Army and would never do that. I know they have a long illustrious history. But, by you saying that the Marine Corps should be folded or however you termed it, you are disrespecting the USMC.
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USMC is here because the U.S. tax payer says it should be. I wouldn't take that for granted. I also wouldn't assume someone saying it shouldn't be is "disrespecting it".


The same case could be made for a separate Navy and Coast Guard. Could the two be one? Sure, and I'd bake a cake for the Coasties to say I'm sorry. 2013 wouldn't be the first time they've had that discussion. It went on well before the Air Force existed.
 
DevilDog said:
Of the branches most Americans consider our Military, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines, it is the smallest branch.
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The Coast Guard is, at all times, a branch of the military, and an armed force of the United States.

Regardless of the ignorance of "most Americans" you should know better.
 
DevilDog said:
Of the branches most Americans consider our Military, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines, it is the smallest branch.
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Then, like some Marines, they can't read.

But for the ones that can, I would suggest 14 U.S.C. 1.
 
I started a thread in off topic to discuss the nead for a Marine Corps, Air Force or Coast Guard. I'm guessing we can all agree, per the U.S. Constitution, that the Army and Navy are here to stay.
 
DevilDog said:
I have not disrespected the Army and would never do that. I know they have a long illustrious history. But, by you saying that the Marine Corps should be folded or however you termed it, you are disrespecting the USMC.
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If so, it makes perfect sense that in order to not disrepect a branch of military, we shouldn't have any disucssion. How dare I say anything?
 
DevilDog said:
As for your Grandfather's comment about cameras on every hill, I have heard the same comment from Army and Navy friends of mine forever. When the ---- hits the fan, who gets called first?.
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For a national strategic crisis, not the USMC, as the rank and file Marines would like you to believe. Are there times when the Marines get the call first, based on proximity? Of course. There is a lot more to the story, which I'm sure you could dig up with good google skills.

That whole "tip of the spear" thing is a great recruiting tactic, though.
 
tpg said:
hmm, maybe it is because I am older....or more experienced....but I am firmly under the impression that when the crap hits the fan...the first person ANY president hears from is his National Security Advisor...and the first people he calls is his National Security Council....

Now maybe I am wrong....
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Nice call....I would imgine the next on that list would be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and so on.
 
tpg said:
I can see your point and I agree with what you are saying about Unit Histories. I guess that has come along with the fact that for years we as a nation relied on state Militia/National Guard Units for major crisis. In a way I guess it was not until after WWII that we really saw an Army of any substantial size exist after a conflict.

Now I may be off base on this next comment and if I am, please let me know.

However it appears to me that the Army does not teach even the basic general US Army history to its troops at the beginning and I see no reason why they can’t. The reason I say this come from when I was a DA employee, I was amazed at how many E-3/E-4 and even a few E-5’s who did not know the birthdate (June 14th)of the US Army and they had no clue how old it was. It also seemed that they had no idea of the first battles of the Rev War that were fought by continentals at various places. The same could be said for the major engagements during the war with Mexico, the Civil War, The Spanish American War….the list goes on. Bottom line is that I was always surprised at how little of their heritage they understood and I always felt that it was important for them to have that knowledge for a sense of pride.

Please note the above is based upon LIMITED personal knowledge.

Now I am a bit different than most when it comes to this. When I worked as a Civilian in the DA, I never had anything in my office that indicated that I was a retired Marine. It just went against my principles of being a leader. I wore a tie clip that had my last initial on it. My Coffee cup was an Army coffee cup. The only things that hung on my office wall were my diploma’s and a few photos of my family.

I celebrated the Army’s birthday. If I was in the office and person was promoted, I made sure I was there….which because of my position, insured that many senior officers and enlisted were there as well. I also used to learn important dates in US Army history and send it to my entire department. I did this because I wanted them to know their traditions and history. To me this was how it should always be.
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That is so true TPG and I don't really understand why the Army is like that. There is this long, illustrious and inspiring Army history and yet the institution almost ignores it. In fact- it almost goes out of its way Not to inmbue soldiers with their links to the past. Some individual units will spend a lot of time linking soldiers to their history (the 101st made a big deal of Screaming Eagle history and the 503d pounded Corregidor and Dak To into you, and in the 23d Infantry in Korea long ago we made it a practice to take all of the Officers and NCOS on terrain walks of the battlefield at Chipyong Ni ). But the Army overall does a lousy job of instilling that feeling of history into it's soldiers - in really sharp contrast to the Marine Corps, where Chesty Puller, Smedley Butler and Dan Dailey are just around the corner. Every little boy at some point knows the Marine corps hymn- but most soldiers (much less the general population) don't really have a clue what the words to "the Army Song" are, and good luck seeing an Army flag window decal in the back window of a car- and if you saw one, would you know that is what it was? But who doesn't know that the red decal sticker in the back window of the car is a Marine Corps flag? I just don't get why the Army ignores this.:confused:
 
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bruno said:
That is so true TPG and I don't really understand why the Army is like that. There is this long, illustrious and inspiring Army history and yet the institution almost ignores it. In fact- it almost goes out of its way Not to inmbue soldiers with their links to the past. Some individual units will spend a lot of time linking soldiers to their history (the 101st made a big deal of Screaming Eagle history and the 503d pounded Corregidor and Dak To into you, and in the 23d Infantry in Korea long ago we made it a practice to take all of the Officers and NCOS on terrain walks of the battlefield at Chipyong Ni ). But the Army overall does a lousy job of instilling that feeling of history into it's soldiers - in really sharp contrast to the Marine Corps, where Chesty Puller, Smedley Butler and Dan Dailey are just around the corner. I've never understood why the Army has so completely missed this boat. :confused:
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Maybe the history of the Army is so vast that they can't teach it in basic? After basic, you pretty much go to your school, then you work in your MOS. I don't really remember if there were classes on Marine Corps history after Basic Training.

I learned most of my Marine Corps history in bootcamp. I have since read books about famous Marines and I have a large book about US Marine Corps history.
 
23d Infantry in Korea long ago we made it a practice to take all of the Officers and NCOS on terrain walks of the battlefield at Chipyong Ni
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I would love to see Chipyong-Ni. It's the battle for which my grandfather was inducted into the Ranger HOF. 1st Ranger Company was attached to the 23rd RCT.
 
scoutpilot said:
I would love to see Chipyong-Ni. It's the battle for which my grandfather was inducted into the Ranger HOF. 1st Ranger Company was attached to the 23rd RCT.
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In 1985- Chipyong Ni and the Twin Tunnels area looked pretty much like it did in 1951. You could walk every company position and didn't take any imagination to see the disposition of the regiment or the Chinese. South Korea has changed a ton in the last 20 years though- I wonder if that area is still as rural as it had been then?

That was one heck of a fight that your Grandfather was in- the 23d and attached Ranger Company and the French Battalion earned that Presidential Unit Citation the hard way- surrounded and cutoff for almost a week, they held off 3 Chinese Armies. The French battalion won renown when they met the Chinese attack on their part of the perimeter by blowing bugles and charging out in a bayonet charge which met the Chinese attack and drove the Chinese back. The French BTW were led by a guy named Ralph Montclar (his nom de guerre anyway) who was a French Army LtGen who took a big reduction in rank in order to lead the French Battalion to Korea. Now that's a warrior- riding to the sound of the guns!)
Overall- in one of the classic defensive actions of the US Army- the 23d RCT kicked the heck out of the CCF and stopped the 8th Army retreat. Col Freeman (later Gen) came and talked to our Battalion about the battle- I thought it was interesting that he refused to be relieved by the 2ID Division Commander even though he was badly wounded and told the designated relieving regimental Commander (Col Childs) to "get the @#$! out of his way" until the battle was over and the 1st Cav had made a link up with the regiment.
The US Army and its history and current capabilities doesn't take a back seat to anybody on anything (other than maybe design of uniforms), and is not only the tip of the spear- it is the spear of US ground power. Why the heck it doesn't talk more about that history to its soldiers is beyond me. Hooah!

http://2id.org/chipyongni.pdf

http://armyheritage.org/education-a...education-materials-index/302-chipyongni.html
 
That fight cost him his eye, part of his leg, his brother, and many years of mental peace.

In most ways, he never ever forgave himself for his brother's death, as he talked the Colonel in charge of Ranger train-up to waive the time-in-service requirement so his baby brother could join.

http://airbornerangerkoreanwar.org/rhof/geer.htm
 
scoutpilot said:
That fight cost him his eye, part of his leg, his brother, and many years of mental peace.

In most ways, he never ever forgave himself for his brother's death, as he talked the Colonel in charge of Ranger train-up to waive the time-in-service requirement so his baby brother could join.

http://airbornerangerkoreanwar.org/rhof/geer.htm
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Your grandfather is an incredible man, thank you for sharing that.
 
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