Unwanted service assignment

Nole123: have you discussed with your Cadre? In my experience, trying to "game" the system by manipulating grades (and other methods) often produces unexpected results. I don't have first-hand knowledge, but have heard that even those selected for Nukes who are hell bent on getting out can achieve that goal through a defined process. Others with first-hand knowledge can certainly give you the straight scoop.
 
USMCGrunt
I know tanking my grades isn't going to help keep the nuke detailers away from me, it is just my current mindset because acheiving my "good" grades has put me on their radar. I have spoken to my cadre and they have said if I have to go to DC for a nuke interview, do well in the interviews and tell them that I desire to become an aviator. My fear is that the admiral will not care about my desires and just see me as a number that will benefit the "needs of the Navy".
 
USMCGrunt
I know tanking my grades isn't going to help keep the nuke detailers away from me, it is just my current mindset because acheiving my "good" grades has put me on their radar. I have spoken to my cadre and they have said if I have to go to DC for a nuke interview, do well in the interviews and tell them that I desire to become an aviator. My fear is that the admiral will not care about my desires and just see me as a number that will benefit the "needs of the Navy".

I've got news for you- he doesn't really care about your desires, he cares about the service as a whole. When you took the tuition check, you agreed to put service over self. This is how the Navy works, it's not just about you. Service assignment is just that- assignment. With 85% of new NROTC Ensigns getting their first or second choice, very few people are placed in a situation where they get one of their bottom choices. You really need to re-evaluate why you're pursuing the Navy as a career.
 
Can he switch to aviation for his next assignment? Does the Navy allow that?

My daughter told me the Coast Guard allows those who don't get a flight school billet for their first assignment can serve 2 years on a cutter and then switch to aviation and go to flight school and become a pilot,


Yes and no... They can go to a cutter and APPLY for flight school.
 
Same thing on Navy side. Complete first assignment and apply for a variety of other options. It is all about needs of the service. I can say that someone who gets a lower desired assignment who doesn't perform as an officer will not get the positive recommendations an officer needs to make a change.

Honestly don't game the system, don't get angry at the system. Everyone who signs up for the scholarship should know needs of the Navy come first. If you wanted a guarantee, then OCS was your option for guaranteed flight option. And remind you I got a very low MOS pick out of TBS and hated my job. I was endorsed and supported all the way up to the CG for a lat move. The monitor wrote me and said they all concurred to approve my move, but I was in an MOS that was shortest staffed in the entire USMC and they couldn't move me. It's how the world works sometimes and maybe why I find the freedom to change jobs so freeing as a civilian. But, I am not angry, bitter or mad. I loved leading Marine.
 
The only way an officer can remotely hope to change branches is to, indeed, "bloom where you are planted". They must become the number one JO on the ship and become the hardest working, best leader, and most professionally competent butter-bar the CO has ever seen. After his initial tour when he requests a transfer, of course his CO will be unwilling to lose such a great young tiger in his chosen field BUT the requested branch will be VERY interested in him as he has proven himself/herself as a top performer. There will probably be a backroom fist fight over this in BUPERS but the young officer has stacked the cards mightily in his favor. No guarantees but my money goes on the transfer.

Suppose the officer does the opposite and purposely becomes a real no-load on board the ship and winds up at the bottom of the JO list of his CO thinking they will get rid of him to aviation. The problem is now nobody wants him and his current command will pass him along to some other unlucky ship if for no other reason than to keep his training in the community. I actually saw this whole drill----it was ugly.
 
I sat on/served as Recorder (essentially board executive assistant to Board President) on several lateral transfer/redesignation boards for Navy officers wishing to switch from one warfare community to another.

All the respective community boards meet at the same time to review those who want to leave a community and those who want to get in. There are always more applicants than there are slots. First pass through the stacks of application packages and fitness report records, eliminate those who were non-performers, middle of the pack and likely non-promotes, of those who wanted to get into your community. Second pass, eliminate those whose applications were not in required format, or other eligibility issues. Third pass, eliminate those requesting to leave the community who would not be allowed to go elsewhere because of under-staffing in a specific year group - needs of the Navy prevail. Then, rack and stack remaining records, from top performers down to the lesser top performers. If you only had 3 slots available in a given year group, you wanted promotable, pack-plus performers from other communities to fill those slots. Then the horse-trading commences among the communities, with proven performers as the only desirable trades. Record comparisons go w-a-a-a-y back. Someone who got bounced from a school pipeline, when clearly they had better potential - red flag.

Top, pack-plus performance almost always gives an officer maximum leverage to get what they want. Non-performing officers, even those on a campaign to escape a specific warfare track, put themselves in peril of being fodder for a "hot fill." The blast goes out from Placement, who looks after staffing for commands, to Detailing, who works with individual officers. Needed: any 0-2/3, any warfare specialty, for immediate must-fill assignment to staff watch officer, duty station z, for a period of two years, unaccompanied. There are many, many not-so-fun jobs in not-so-fun places, that the officer who has dropped to pack-minus and essentially becomes non-promotable, can find unexpected orders arriving for. Worst case, but it happens. Very hard to job hunt when OCONUS in a warm body job.

Understanding the sub draft concern, I counsel performing well and being honest about desires, respectful of subs, in interviews when asked. The admiral's duty is to look after the needs of the Navy, same theory as a sub skipper under attack on the surface who makes the decision to dive and save his/her sub and crew to fight another day, but who may have to abandon wounded topside. Drastic comparison, but admirals get to where they are by understanding and executing to the big picture of getting sufficient top performers into their community to maintain operational excellence. That said, it won't be news to an interviewing officer that some candidates are less than thrilled and perhaps will not make the best sub officer. No one wants a bitter, resentful officer leading enlisted troops.

Don't let yourself down. The risk of doing something you don't want is part of the deal. If it happens, be the best you can be, and other doors will open. Don't be less if you can do more. You will likely live 80-something years. If you have to devote a sliver to something not your first choice, do it with your best self.
 
Prepping for my June 1st interview, was told ADM Caldwell has failed people who have passed both tech interviews meaning he is serious about the submarine force. I get the feeling if you purposely try to fail your interview it will not go well for you and your command. There may not be real punishments but you may have a not so nice chat with your CO. It is almost impossible to lateral transfer from ASW, if I remember correctly you cannot transfer until after your initial commitment but if you sign on for more than that you'll be on your department head tour in which it is too late to transfer, or something like that.

I think NavyNOLA has it right, you are not entitled to any community. If you want your college payed for, you go where the Navy wants you to go. If you get selected for subs, and you don't truly study for the interview or try to game the interview that shows a real lack of integrity.
 
Please educate this AF pilot...

I had "been told" that sub's were strictly a volunteer billet due to the uniqueness of the assignment (chance of claustrophobia) and such? Is that no longer the case?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Theoretically, they are. If the Navy doesn't get enough volunteers from USNA and ROTC to make the intake goal, then likely candidates are invited/encouraged to apply. The invitations may morph into scheduled participation in the interview process. "Sub draft" rumors abound every year, but I don't have any first-hand stories from the USNA sponsor family to share. It's usually top-performing engineering majors who seem to be the cherry-picked group, and they may have put subs way below other choices.

Current mids/recent grads should have better insight, and perhaps someone can produce the requested/selected stats we have seen in the past. By and large, most get what they want out of USNA (most first, some second, choice), as I recall the stats trend over the years. I don't know how ROTC requested/selected stats look. I don't think sub draft numbers are massive, but, of course, it's a massive impact on a mid who never considered or desired sub duty.

With regard to claustrophobia or other issues, I would assume any legitimate cases of that or other issues would be surfaced during the interview process.
 
Theoretically, they are. If the Navy doesn't get enough volunteers from USNA and ROTC to make the intake goal, then likely candidates are invited/encouraged to apply. The invitations may morph into scheduled participation in the interview process. "Sub draft" rumors abound every year, but I don't have any first-hand stories from the USNA sponsor family to share. It's usually top-performing engineering majors who seem to be the cherry-picked group, and they may have put subs way below other choices.

Current mids/recent grads should have better insight, and perhaps someone can produce the requested/selected stats we have seen in the past. By and large, most get what they want out of USNA (most first, some second, choice), as I recall the stats trend over the years. I don't know how ROTC requested/selected stats look. I don't think sub draft numbers are massive, but, of course, it's a massive impact on a mid who never considered or desired sub duty.

With regard to claustrophobia or other issues, I would assume any legitimate cases of that or other issues would be surfaced during the interview process.

For the NROTC May 2015 graduating class, nuclear power hit its magic number without "drafting" anyone. It varies year to year.
 
Please educate this AF pilot...

I had "been told" that sub's were strictly a volunteer billet due to the uniqueness of the assignment (chance of claustrophobia) and such? Is that no longer the case?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

The nuclear power folks at Officer Development in P-cola have the ability to screen all NROTC students for the community through a master computer database that tracks midshipmen performance, grades, etc. If they are interested in an individual as a prospective candidate, they'll ask the unit staff to submit a package, regardless of the midshipman's desired community.
 
Back in the Rickover days, they "drafted" folks into Nuclear Power. Famous stories abound about people trying to fail their interview and Rickover still selecting them for "his" submarine service.

Almost 30 years ago I was in ROTC at Northwestern University and I was invited to a nuke power interview. I was an electrical engineering major which they liked, but I wanted to fly airplanes. Fortunately, this was a different time and my ROTC unit XO was an NFO and when I told him I didn't want to go to my interview because aviation was my first choice he told the nuke power LT to cancel my interview. This was the end of the Reagan years and we were looking for a 600 ship navy, so there was a good deal of pressure on getting folks into nuke power, but when the unit said "no" the issue was resolved. I assure you that any feathers that were ruffled at that time had absolutely no bearing on the rest of my career!!

It sounds like things may have swung back towards the early Rickover view. Ironically, even he eventually realized that drafting folks into nuke power was a bad idea!

As others have said, I wouldn't go out of my way to piss the Navy off at this point in your career, but professionally expressing your desire to have a different career path should not upset anybody and may yield the desired results.
 
Back
Top