USAFA Cadets/Drug Charges

Capt MJ

Capt MJ

Serviam.
15-Year Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
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24,109
Very sorry to see this.

It seems like an endless wheel, with sometimes USNA in the hot seat with mid misconduct/scandal, then USMA, and so on. I’m posting just for general news-sharing, not to poke at my AF brethren. Navy will gets its turn back in the barrel soon enough.

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The alleged intent to distribute is worrisome. This young man is the pride of someone’s family, who no doubt made visits as a high schooler, wrote and said all the usual stuff in essays and interviews, smiled at the camera with his parents at milestone events, made it to his senior year - and may end up with a military conviction, in all likelihood a bad-flavored discharge, and will owe six figures of payback.

His misconduct will also launch the usual round of debate on D1 sports and Service Academies, varsity athletes, etc., which will unfairly slop over onto the hundreds of varsity athletes who are a credit to their Academy and their service.


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IMO it’s good to share these things for applicants to really see a real life example of what can happen...consequences of a very poor decision.

Very, very sad indeed.
 
To be clear...no sympathy either. My sadness is for the reasons stated by CaptMJ’s last paragraph.

I actually got a little lost in the article. Did this guy get arrested in Arkansas as a student? Remained a cadet? Which I can’t imagine happening. But it reads that this guy should have been separated long before.
 
Presumably Saucier’s December 2018 arrest was in a civilian jurisdiction. The AF has to wait until all the dust from that clears before proceeding with its own case, which can not duplicate charges, but can bring new UCMJ ones, as well as the classic “conduct unbecoming” and “bringing discredit to the service” general charges. In the meantime, Service Academies have to decide if they are going to allow the cadet to continue classes or stash them somewhere administratively as the best choice for the Academy as a whole.

I do hope he was not allowed to play football or represent USAFA, but I get the “innocent until proven guilty” element.
 
I have no sympathy. These were decisions based on weakness and arrogance. Countless other young people have traveled the same road and made the sacrifices and commitments required to live with Honor and to serve. These former Cadets are simply unworthy. One has to reflect when one stands in a room like that in the following image and realizes what every name plate represents. reme.jpg
 
Capt MJ said:
Presumably Saucier’s December 2018 arrest was in a civilian jurisdiction. The AF has to wait until all the dust from that clears before proceeding with its own case, which can not duplicate charges, but can bring new UCMJ ones, as well as the classic “conduct unbecoming” and “bringing discredit to the service” general charges. In the meantime, Service Academies have to decide if they are going to allow the cadet to continue classes or stash them somewhere administratively as the best choice for the Academy as a whole.

I do hope he was not allowed to play football or represent USAFA, but I get the “innocent until proven guilty” element.
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As I read the article, it sounds like the Arkanasas arrest was by civilian officers on Saucier's hometown and that military prosecutors have taken over that case. The article also says Saucier was dropped from the team following his Arkansas arrest.
 
That could certainly be the scenario, the civilian authorities ceding their jurisdiction to military and turning it all over to USAFA. It’s often easier that way.
 
Agreed. Penalties are generally much more substantial under federal jurisdiction.
 
Every time something like this shows up in the media, there are comments on this forum about how sad it is. I'm sad for the parents assuming they were not enablers and I'm sad for the teammates who wern't/aren't using, but otherwise I'm not sad--especially for the decision makers at the Div I SA's.

"I came here to play football," Saucier told The Gazette last year. "I didn't come here to be a cadet. Sometimes I have to remind myself that being a cadet will help me be a better football player."

It wasn't that long ago there was a lengthy discussion on SAF about the DOD allowing athletes to "pursue" their dreams after graduation/commissioning--outside of the military, of course. Is there not a connection?

The article made mention of former Cadet Cole Fagan, whose name I Googled. This is what I got:

mwwire.com

Air Force Football: What Does Losing Cole Fagan Mean For The Falcons Running Game?

[jwplayer jIPlDVJq-Esf0Ippc] Air Force Football: What Does Losing Cole Fagan Mean For The Falcons Running Game? The Falcons’ leading rusher is no longer with the team, but how significant is …
mwwire.com mwwire.com

Sounds to me like fandom has about as much regard for USAF as they would a "Gentleman's" Club losing it's headliner. Look what is happening in CA, discussing paying student athletes. Why even be associated with NCAA Div IA, which has completely commodified student athletes? How can SA's compete in this environment without massive compromises to their integrity?

My local Big 10 U has a 7 year/$5 mil. a year coach, with a losing record, and just announced a $150 mil football facility. We already have stunningly nice facilities. It has a sold out forever 90,000 seat stadium where the cheapest season ticket is $82 per game (including the mandatory contribution) and a stable of $5+ mil. check writers.

Good Luck!
 
Capt MJ said:
It seems like an endless wheel, with sometimes USNA in the hot seat with mid misconduct/scandal, then USMA, and so on. I’m posting just for general news-sharing, not to poke at my AF brethren. Navy will gets its turn back in the barrel soon enough.
Click to expand...

Indeed, all the academies have been tainted by criminal activity over the years. USCGA cadets, the military branch tasked with stopping the flow of cocaine into this country via the sea, has had cadets dismissed for using cocaine inside Leamy Hall. USMA had major drug distribution ring where a cadet was selling drugs to many of his classmates. USNA had a midshipman arrested for smuggling 150 lbs of marijuana, USAFA has had a few K2/Spice issues, and USNA and USAFA have had murderers (yes, murderers!) in residence.

There probably isn't a crime you can name that a military academy cadet/mid hasn't been charged or dismissed for. They are not infallible, they make bad decisions just like their non-military academy peers. Sons of admirals and sons of letter carriers alike.

I am glad when these people are caught, convicted, and dismissed. It's the ones they don't catch that are still serving that worry me more.
 
Well what are there, 13,000 college kids hanging around these academies? With that number of 18-21 year olds you're going to run into a certain amount of Too Dumb or Too Smart that leads to Too Bad.
 
Capt MJ said:
I do hope he was not allowed to play football or represent USAFA, but I get the “innocent until proven guilty” element.
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Based on the current AF football roster, he is not on the team.
 
I'm not sure if people (Service Academy grads in particular) are aware of the big push at the SAs with the recruiting of Division I athletes. Check out the Air Force Academy Athletic Corporation (AFAAC). Also, during the summer of 2018, the Air Force Academy (AFA) proudly advertised how the class of 2022 had 26% recruited athletes. Whatever happened to the mission and purpose of SAs? As a SA grad who played intercollegiate athletics, I don't feel bad for Cadets Fagan or Saucier--I sense they were used by the AFA, but they also lost their own moral compass.
 
Airianna said:
I'm not sure if people (Service Academy grads in particular) are aware of the big push at the SAs with the recruiting of Division I athletes. Check out the Air Force Academy Athletic Corporation (AFAAC). Also, during the summer of 2018, the Air Force Academy (AFA) proudly advertised how the class of 2022 had 26% recruited athletes. Whatever happened to the mission and purpose of SAs? As a SA grad who played intercollegiate athletics, I don't feel bad for Cadets Fagan or Saucier--I sense they were used by the AFA, but they also lost their own moral compass.
Click to expand...
I don’t view a disconnect between being a recruited athlete and being a good commissioned officer as long as the person is 3Q. I think there are many leadership qualities that are learned on the field of competition.
But, having said that, I do think that while having a competitive program should be a goal one should not lose sight of the end goal, developing and graduating commissioned officers. Some coaches do this well, some don’t.
 
In the aforementioned discussion of Cadet Joseph Saucier, the court has ruled: "Air Force judge Lt. Col. Sterling Pendleton sentenced Saucier to a reprimand, forfeiture of $1,116 per month for four months, and four months confinement. However, he will serve three months of confinement because of the pre-trial agreement. He will also have a federal conviction on his record. "

What I can't figure out is: why wasn't he "dismissed the service?" All the reporting agencies in Colorado Springs commented that the judge didn't order him dismissed from the USAF.

I've been a panel member on many courts-martial...never seen a drug conviction end in an individual not being either punitively discharged or dismissed.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
flieger83 said:
In the aforementioned discussion of Cadet Joseph Saucier, the court has ruled: "Air Force judge Lt. Col. Sterling Pendleton sentenced Saucier to a reprimand, forfeiture of $1,116 per month for four months, and four months confinement. However, he will serve three months of confinement because of the pre-trial agreement. He will also have a federal conviction on his record. "

What I can't figure out is: why wasn't he "dismissed the service?" All the reporting agencies in Colorado Springs commented that the judge didn't order him dismissed from the USAF.

I've been a panel member on many courts-martial...never seen a drug conviction end in an individual not being either punitively discharged or dismissed.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...
:mad:
 
flieger83 said:
In the aforementioned discussion of Cadet Joseph Saucier, the court has ruled: "Air Force judge Lt. Col. Sterling Pendleton sentenced Saucier to a reprimand, forfeiture of $1,116 per month for four months, and four months confinement. However, he will serve three months of confinement because of the pre-trial agreement. He will also have a federal conviction on his record. "

What I can't figure out is: why wasn't he "dismissed the service?" All the reporting agencies in Colorado Springs commented that the judge didn't order him dismissed from the USAF.

I've been a panel member on many courts-martial...never seen a drug conviction end in an individual not being either punitively discharged or dismissed.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

Did I read somewhere ( in virtually every thread) on the forums that needs of the force come first..[emoji45][emoji45]
 
Not that I agree with it, but COULD it be because he has stated he only joined ‘to get better at football’ (not serve)? So could it be that therefore his ‘punishment’ is making him serve?

Because no discharge, kicked out of usafa and having to pay back just doesn’t make sense [emoji848]
 
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