USAFA Cheating Scandal
- Thread starter marciemi
- Start date
I hope not. This is entertaining. Enlightening, no but entertaining yes!
Christcorp
15-Year Member
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I want to know if the mods can do a search and find out what the "LONGEST" running thread (As in pages) is? Without football season being here yet, I need something to root for. I want to see if we can break the record.
On a serious note: I honestly believe that "Each and every one" who's posted on this thread, really do want what's best for the academy, the cadet wing, and the air force in general. Even with some of the levels of pride being high, and believing that one particular academy is better than the others, such individuals don't want to see the sister academies have black eyes, bad press, or produce inferior officers.
I think the differences in opinions are simply based on some believing that poor choices are sometimes made, and that on a "Case by Case" basis, sometimes there's room for leniency. Others believe some things are clear cut and when an individual makes such a bad choice, that there shouldn't be any room for leniency. This is an area that all of us will never agree on. Society continually evolves and changes. As such, individuals and their beliefs, morals, and values change. And being the military is made up of individuals, it is only common sense that it must change and evolve over time. We've all seen this many times. When I first came in during the 70's, a DWI was no big thing. I knew a number of folks who had multiple DWI's and they didn't get discharged. Today; alcohol is a much more serious offense. Not just in the military but socially/nationally. The attitude towards gays in the military has changed and since has been condoned/allowed. So posting here mentioned in other threads concerning breaking the law in reference to "Underage Drinking" that basically "Kids will be kids" and that the majority do it and it's part of growing up. But is breaking the law "Honorable"? Same people won't allow breaking an honor code to be considered a poor choice based on growing up and learning from that mistake with a 2nd chance.
Bottom line: This topic will never be agreed on. It will never have a complete consensus. Many are willing to accept the air force's decision. Many will say the air force was wrong if they keep ANY of the cadets who were found guilty of cheating. We are never going to agree. Many can't even be consistent with their own position let alone with someone else's.
On a serious note: I honestly believe that "Each and every one" who's posted on this thread, really do want what's best for the academy, the cadet wing, and the air force in general. Even with some of the levels of pride being high, and believing that one particular academy is better than the others, such individuals don't want to see the sister academies have black eyes, bad press, or produce inferior officers.
I think the differences in opinions are simply based on some believing that poor choices are sometimes made, and that on a "Case by Case" basis, sometimes there's room for leniency. Others believe some things are clear cut and when an individual makes such a bad choice, that there shouldn't be any room for leniency. This is an area that all of us will never agree on. Society continually evolves and changes. As such, individuals and their beliefs, morals, and values change. And being the military is made up of individuals, it is only common sense that it must change and evolve over time. We've all seen this many times. When I first came in during the 70's, a DWI was no big thing. I knew a number of folks who had multiple DWI's and they didn't get discharged. Today; alcohol is a much more serious offense. Not just in the military but socially/nationally. The attitude towards gays in the military has changed and since has been condoned/allowed. So posting here mentioned in other threads concerning breaking the law in reference to "Underage Drinking" that basically "Kids will be kids" and that the majority do it and it's part of growing up. But is breaking the law "Honorable"? Same people won't allow breaking an honor code to be considered a poor choice based on growing up and learning from that mistake with a 2nd chance.
Bottom line: This topic will never be agreed on. It will never have a complete consensus. Many are willing to accept the air force's decision. Many will say the air force was wrong if they keep ANY of the cadets who were found guilty of cheating. We are never going to agree. Many can't even be consistent with their own position let alone with someone else's.
I think this is it: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=24341
Come on... almost there
NorwichDad
10-Year Member
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I think this is it: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=24341
Come on... almost there
This is really a very large thread, considering it started a week ago.
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EDelahanty
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In the words of Emile Zola: Je m'excuse! I, Poster Delahanty denounce Poster Scout Pilot as an Agent Provocateur in league with the Ancien Regime. He has interfered egregiously with the natural order of things in attempting to thwart the summer doldrums. Hitch up the tumbrel!
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a la guillotine!!
Honor system
They are all weak!!! A real Man or Woman lives under honor because of experiences and choices through life. All Men and Women in real life, live under rules and laws!!!! When enforcing rules whether you call them laws or honor code it will always cause assorted problems, especially with growing teens and young adults. Thats why in life as you get older you become wiser, and if you choose to be Honorable in some way, Respected!!! To think that a Cadet or anyone in the Military can not make a bad choice or two during their career is a pipe dream!!!!!!!! These young men and women work hard everyday, atttempt to put family and personal issues to the side and have to deal with different military officers and their issues, let alone do the right thing daily, complete military tasks,study and have a social life for developement, all between the ages of 17-23. Yet, if one or a dozen screw up, without the full information provided by the individual cadet, USAFA or the Media, people on this board act like children and jump to conclussions on both side. USAFA is an organization, Organizations will slant issues to make them look better, like the Media will rush stories to be the first!!!!! Cadets no matter if they graduate or are disenrolled, gave up a lot in their youth to get in. Thats why most on this board can Talk the Talk, but the ones on this board who went the ZOO or any Academy for 1 year or graduation, know what it takes to walk the talk!!!! I commend every single young man or women who has attend an academy for their service, no matter what the outcome. Less than a tenth of a percent of the U.S. population attempts to get into the Academies, yet when a "scandal" breaks involving the honor code, (not involving a criminal act), this one released by USAFA everyone puts in their two cents. All I can say is when you do that, and it bashes these kids look at yourself, your friends and family. And if you honestly do, you will see who really has honor in your own circle!!!!! By the way I'm a Republican, this is not liberal, its factual!!!!!!!!
I'm retired, I hope when co workers look at my life that they knew I took on the under dog, was absolutely fair, a great listner, and never bowed to organizational standard, peer pressure, or greater authority, because I wanted to "fit in with a program." I know I live with Honor which made me into an exceptional leader. I question if are academies truely teach this standard of mentoring when its all said an done. There are plenty of managers out there, and frankly not enough leaders. And most leaders do not come from the academies and the honor system, they come from experiences, education, and growth!!!!!
They are all weak!!! A real Man or Woman lives under honor because of experiences and choices through life. All Men and Women in real life, live under rules and laws!!!! When enforcing rules whether you call them laws or honor code it will always cause assorted problems, especially with growing teens and young adults. Thats why in life as you get older you become wiser, and if you choose to be Honorable in some way, Respected!!! To think that a Cadet or anyone in the Military can not make a bad choice or two during their career is a pipe dream!!!!!!!! These young men and women work hard everyday, atttempt to put family and personal issues to the side and have to deal with different military officers and their issues, let alone do the right thing daily, complete military tasks,study and have a social life for developement, all between the ages of 17-23. Yet, if one or a dozen screw up, without the full information provided by the individual cadet, USAFA or the Media, people on this board act like children and jump to conclussions on both side. USAFA is an organization, Organizations will slant issues to make them look better, like the Media will rush stories to be the first!!!!! Cadets no matter if they graduate or are disenrolled, gave up a lot in their youth to get in. Thats why most on this board can Talk the Talk, but the ones on this board who went the ZOO or any Academy for 1 year or graduation, know what it takes to walk the talk!!!! I commend every single young man or women who has attend an academy for their service, no matter what the outcome. Less than a tenth of a percent of the U.S. population attempts to get into the Academies, yet when a "scandal" breaks involving the honor code, (not involving a criminal act), this one released by USAFA everyone puts in their two cents. All I can say is when you do that, and it bashes these kids look at yourself, your friends and family. And if you honestly do, you will see who really has honor in your own circle!!!!! By the way I'm a Republican, this is not liberal, its factual!!!!!!!!
I'm retired, I hope when co workers look at my life that they knew I took on the under dog, was absolutely fair, a great listner, and never bowed to organizational standard, peer pressure, or greater authority, because I wanted to "fit in with a program." I know I live with Honor which made me into an exceptional leader. I question if are academies truely teach this standard of mentoring when its all said an done. There are plenty of managers out there, and frankly not enough leaders. And most leaders do not come from the academies and the honor system, they come from experiences, education, and growth!!!!!
raimius
15-Year Member
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True. Yet, some minimum standard should be set. That is why the Honor Codes and Concepts exist. They should not be viewed as the goal, but as the minimum standard.
There are plenty of grads on this board who understand, but it appears a few cadets who were given the privilege of attending the academy did not. Some, apparently, realized their mistake (and may be given the chance to remain).
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Demanding standards of federal institutions isn't a liberal thing. Your tax dollars go to pay for something that doesn't have to exist, it is in your best interest to insure it's being handled correctly.
I sat in a "all hands" meeting within a DHS program the other day. A political appointee who shall remain nameless talked to a room of 200 federal employees and contractors about how angry he gets when people tell him they pay his salary. He said, in this climate, the department (DHS) must appear to be good stewards of the tax players money.
APPEARANCE?!?! How about you just do the right thing?
The entire all hands was one iPhone video away from giving DHS ANOTHER black eye.
I don't care if it's the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force or Coast Guard, excellence should be their goal in everything they do. Don't take their existence or funding for granted. The protection of "patriots won't question defense spending" that the services enjoyed while I was in not too long ago is starting to wear off.
scoutpilot
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You're the one who appeared on here when we started speaking of the scandal and posting as though you're on the inside of USAFA. You tell us.
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I think USAFA has been a bit busy with other things lately, between I Day and the Waldo Canyon Fire, etc. That said, the latest I've heard is just what was said earlier - that most of those cadets would get remediation if they just cheated (which is evidently okay 
) as long as they didn't lie about it as well (two strikes and you're out?! ).
) as long as they didn't lie about it as well (two strikes and you're out?! ).
Dixieland
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Thanks for the update, Scratcher. I hadn't seen this.
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Your viewpoint is eerily similar to mine.
Guess we were there during a different time....