USAFA Gymnastics
- Thread starter Blackbird
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raimius
15-Year Member
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- Jun 9, 2006
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I'm not saying USAFA accepts criminal or regulatory violations, I'm saying it will not be taken up as an honor issue, unless it involves one of the four categories mentioned in the Honor Code.
Again, USAFA's Honor Code is not all inclusive. It is a specific baseline where specific violations are punishable via an administrative process.
Possessing a car on base as a sophomore will not get you kicked as an honor offense. It will probably get you in some trouble though.
Lying to your commander about having a car on base can get you kicked out.
One shows a disregard of administrative rules, and will be punished accordingly. The other shows a tendency to lie to avoid accountability, and will generate a tougher punishment, as USAFA considers lying a very serious offense.
That has happened.
One person I know left base without signing out (regs violation). They put a note on their door stating they were in their room and asking not to disturb them at Taps (0130 that night, I think). The regs violation would get them in trouble (20 demerits and 20 2.5hour "detentions"). The honor violation of lying about their whereabouts got them 6 months of honor probation and significantly more demerits and detentions, but they were not kicked out (fortunately for them). Their roommate was brought up on an honor charge for tolerating the lie, but was not convicted because they believed their roommate was going to return and go to bed before Taps.
When I was a firstie, one of my 3-degrees was caught drinking underage in C-Springs. He did not lie about it, did not steal anything, cheat anyone, or tolerate one of those, therefore it was not dealt with under the USAFA honor system. The commander could choose to prosecute him for disobeying an order under the UCMJ, give him non-judicial punishment in the form of an Article 15, or utilize the Cadet Disciplinary system (conduct probation, marching tours, demerits, and being restricted to base, etc). Since the cadet's offense began and ended with underage drinking, with no compounding offenses, the commander chose to use the Cadet Disciplinary System and put the cadet on probation, with the associated punishments that generally went with that. Under the policies of the time, his cadet element leader and cadet flight commander (me) were also restricted to base for two weeks for not preventing his alcohol related offense. (hooray!
)
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MombaBomba
5-Year Member
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- Jan 13, 2014
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What part of my post is an assumption? I didn't specify it was a pattern. It was specified as a pattern in the official USAFA news release. For something to be labeled as a pattern, it occurs more than once and has to be identified as occurring more than once. Something happening once and ONLY once does not make a pattern. For a pattern to be identified, it must occur multiple times and someone must know it has occurred multiple times, else there is absolutely no way to identify it as a pattern.
And to boil it down, how could this pattern of behavior go on so long that it became such an issue that it had to be acknowledged publicly (official press release)? Who knew about it and for how long? Why wait till it got to this point to do something about it?
As I said, young people do stupid things at times. It doesn't make them bad people. It just makes them young with some life lessons to learn. Many of us have done something incredibly stupid at some point in our lives, and some of us were lucky enough to learn the first time through experience, and others were luck enough to have someone else "slap us up side the head" and point out our stupidity. Rather learn early than later, where the consequences could be far worse.
I would prefer the behavior be addressed earlier rather than let it progress to the point where it has to be publicly acknowledged in an official press release. Now, this following part is pure speculation --> Because I suspect that having to acknowledged the behavior in an official press release means the discipline may be far harsher than if it was just kept in house and addressed early on.
Tax dollars
I can think of a few tax dollar situations with commander in chiefs, not inhaling not having sexual relations breaking the rules with a fat paycheck. Old enough to know better still making mistakes. Just saying. Any situation where the media and public eye gets involved, seems to get blown out of proportion. Ie. Martha Stewart, Paula dean. The punishment should be case by case and not determined by media or politics. Ie Rodney king, trevon Martin, and recently in St. Louis.. Not saying the rules aren't broken, just as stated previously with caught drinking in co springs let the punishment fit the crime, and they are kids still, even with a paycheck. Look at the tax dollar politicians this year on crack and dui's. We all make mistakes.
I can think of a few tax dollar situations with commander in chiefs, not inhaling not having sexual relations breaking the rules with a fat paycheck. Old enough to know better still making mistakes. Just saying. Any situation where the media and public eye gets involved, seems to get blown out of proportion. Ie. Martha Stewart, Paula dean. The punishment should be case by case and not determined by media or politics. Ie Rodney king, trevon Martin, and recently in St. Louis.. Not saying the rules aren't broken, just as stated previously with caught drinking in co springs let the punishment fit the crime, and they are kids still, even with a paycheck. Look at the tax dollar politicians this year on crack and dui's. We all make mistakes.
falconchic88
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 1,124
This is the way different scenarios were handled when I was a cadet as well. So its not a new way of handling or interpreting the Honor Code. Breaking a reg was one thing, but lying about breaking the reg to cover it up turned it into an honor violation, with stiffer punishments. Cadets were and are expected to own up to their mistakes and take the punishments they deserve. It seems like this is happening in the case with the Gymnastics Team. (FWIW, I was on the women's gymnastics team, and we worked hard and played hard. Luckily for us, Colorado had 3-2 beer at the time, so we were all legal at 18I'm not saying USAFA accepts criminal or regulatory violations, I'm saying it will not be taken up as an honor issue, unless it involves one of the four categories mentioned in the Honor Code.
Again, USAFA's Honor Code is not all inclusive. It is a specific baseline where specific violations are punishable via an administrative process.
Possessing a car on base as a sophomore will not get you kicked as an honor offense. It will probably get you in some trouble though.
Lying to your commander about having a car on base can get you kicked out.
One shows a disregard of administrative rules, and will be punished accordingly. The other shows a tendency to lie to avoid accountability, and will generate a tougher punishment, as USAFA considers lying a very serious offense.
That has happened.
One person I know left base without signing out (regs violation). They put a note on their door stating they were in their room and asking not to disturb them at Taps (0130 that night, I think). The regs violation would get them in trouble (20 demerits and 20 2.5hour "detentions"). The honor violation of lying about their whereabouts got them 6 months of honor probation and significantly more demerits and detentions, but they were not kicked out (fortunately for them). Their roommate was brought up on an honor charge for tolerating the lie, but was not convicted because they believed their roommate was going to return and go to bed before Taps.
When I was a firstie, one of my 3-degrees was caught drinking underage in C-Springs. He did not lie about it, did not steal anything, cheat anyone, or tolerate one of those, therefore it was not dealt with under the USAFA honor system. The commander could choose to prosecute him for disobeying an order under the UCMJ, give him non-judicial punishment in the form of an Article 15, or utilize the Cadet Disciplinary system (conduct probation, marching tours, demerits, and being restricted to base, etc). Since the cadet's offense began and ended with underage drinking, with no compounding offenses, the commander chose to use the Cadet Disciplinary System and put the cadet on probation, with the associated punishments that generally went with that. Under the policies of the time, his cadet element leader and cadet flight commander (me) were also restricted to base for two weeks for not preventing his alcohol related offense. (hooray!
)
Dad
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
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- 1,132
Semper Fi
