USAFA Mascot Injured in Prank

Let's all be thankful that Aurora is not as badly hurt as originally reported. All opinions are welcome here. We can have differing points of view, but please keep it respectful and inclusive.
 
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Aren’t you being too harsh? I am pretty sure these cadets did not think about everything and they should be punished accordingly (walking tour if they still have those), but I doubt they intended to hurt the bird. No one is perfect. Better to learn the lesson now, not later as an officer.

Perhaps you were a model midshipman, but looking back I did some stupid things as a cadet and a junior officer.

Committing several federal felonies is not just cadet/JO stupid decisions. They knew it was against the rules to break into an O-6's private residence to steal a mascot. They deserve to get the boot.
 
DS is a USMA cadet and I was at the game on Saturday. My thoughts, those who exhibited the terrible judgement to "kidnap" the birds should be severely punished, short of expulsion, and that punishment should be made public. No matter the spirit in which the act was meant there is no excuse for putting a defenseless animal in harm's way. Thankfully the initial extent of the injuries was greatly exaggerated and Aurora will be fine. As far as the player flipping the bird, that is something the coach should be perfectly capable of dealing with. The fact is if you watched closely the game got very chippy in the second half and the officials did nothing to calm it down. That emotions were still running high immediately afterwards is no surprise.
 
He flipped someone the bird. Anything besides a coach having a talk with him is an overreaction.

My husband’s pretty sure he would have gotten a Captain’s Mast for flipping someone off on tv even in the heat of the moment.

This is not meant to excuse the falcon napping in the least. I would expect some type of response from USMA but for me to decide either consequences for the USMA or AFA cadet would put me far out of my capabilities.
 
I think that we parents all hope this and I think that we'd all be terrified if we ever actually did learn about all the things that our cadets think about!!

Agreed. Son needs to stay with a double major and no free time to speak of. [emoji177]
 
Putting aside the issue of the mascot but addressing such things as "breaking and entering" and other crimes committed during a spirit mission. Almost all spirit missions will, in some shape or form, involve a technical breaking of a rule or law and I think people need to take a step back and a deep breath. Throwing out every Cadet or Midshipman who ever committed such offenses would have resulted in the loss of some fantastic military leaders. The examples of such "missions" are endless and some become legendary but a few come to mind. Stealing a guidon (theft) and putting the streamer on Washington's horse and the guidon on his sword (defacing federal property). Didn't help when a delegation from the Japanese military was given a tour first thing the following morning and had a good laugh. Rappelling to a visiting service TAC officer's unlocked office window and rearranging things (breaking and entering, vandalism). Hacking (a federal crime), into the West Point computer system so "Anchors Away" played all night over the barracks intercom. Or one of my favorites, illegally entering a military installation, breaking into a building in order to play "Anchors Away" from the Cadet Chapel bell tower (Ross Perot).
Let's try to avoid mob justice, let things settle down a little, and let the system work as it should.
 
My husband’s pretty sure he would have gotten a Captain’s Mast for flipping someone off on tv even in the heat of the moment.

After a chippy half of play during a rivalry football game? Pure BS.

This merits a conversation with a coach, nothing more. Tempers get high during sports, stuff like this happen. Anything else is an overreaction.
 
After a chippy half of play during a rivalry football game? Pure BS.

This merits a conversation with a coach, nothing more. Tempers get high during sports, stuff like this happen. Anything else is an overreaction.
I can tell you my college coach at a civilian university would not have tolerated such behavior, especially flipping off or in any way disrespecting another coach. At a minimum it would have resulted in a suspension. But that’s for the AF coach to decide.
 
After a chippy half of play during a rivalry football game? Pure BS.

This merits a conversation with a coach, nothing more. Tempers get high during sports, stuff like this happen. Anything else is an overreaction.

We can agree to disagree. Sports, heat of battle, working your daily shift all require self control.
 
I won't weigh in on either transgression. I do hope that those involved (directly, indirectly, and student body members) learn leadership lessons from the events. I guarantee that as Junior Officers in charge of 17 and 18 year olds they will see all sorts of stupid stuff play out. Whether they choose to "throw the book at them" or find creative discipline opportunities will depend upon a lot of factors but one might be the memory of these actions and how they were addressed.
 
My husband’s pretty sure he would have gotten a Captain’s Mast for flipping someone off on tv even in the heat of the moment.

After a chippy half of play during a rivalry football game? Pure BS.

This merits a conversation with a coach, nothing more. Tempers get high during sports, stuff like this happen. Anything else is an overreaction.
Agree 100%. This was a very emotional game between rivals that became nasty as hard fought games sometimes do. I am from the other side of this (USMA) but as a long ago Division 1 athlete I have seen this and worse hundreds of times. Coaches have their own way of dealing with minor transgressions such as these in a way that will discourage them from happening again.
 
Above was in response to Nemo567's post or it really doesn't make sense.. Sorry about that..
 
addressing such things as "breaking and entering" and other crimes committed during a spirit mission. Almost all spirit missions will, in some shape or form, involve a technical breaking of a rule or law and I think people need to take a step back and a deep breath.

This. I'd hate to post the details of a spirit mission our son devised and (successfully) executed with a team of Plebes his Yuk year. It absolutely involved the breaking, entering, and stealing trifecta. He submitted the formal paperwork for the spirit mission in advance, and it was signed off by WP higher -- that's how official spirit missions work. But, part of the paperwork was an agreement that he would be personally responsible for complete restitution, up to the full cost of the item stolen ($12K), if the item was not eventually restored to its owners in its original condition. He also had to replace the lock that was destroyed in the execution of the mission. We thought he was nuts to assume that risk, but he did it unscathed. Evidently common sense is not a spirit mission requirement.

I think stealing any living thing should be absolutely off limits. Falcons are not the same as material things that can be identically replaced.
 
As a former athlete at USNA and remember my team mates and other athletes get punished for a variety of items... it would of been a chat with the Coach, O Reps and a few others. Since it was a SA rival on TV, possibly the athletic director. A suspension of probably 3 games (maybe less for football as the season and games are less) would of been handed down.
 
There is a difference with spirit missions when it comes to things like academic buildings and offices and private residences. It's never ok to break into a private residence. That's a crime.
 
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This merits a conversation with a coach, nothing more. Tempers get high during sports, stuff like this happen. Anything else is an overreaction.

I don’t understand your double standard - youthful/overzealous mistake of a spirit mission gone wrong, expel the cadet vs on TV, forever recorded, a heat of moment, stuff like this happen counseling by the coach. I will be more understanding of personal fouls during the game as tempers get high, but when the game is not being played. Are cadets supposed to be comrades when the game is over?
 
Perhaps you were a model midshipman, but looking back I did some stupid things as a cadet and a junior officer.

Definitely made my share of mistakes in both roles. And played my fair share of pranks. But in doing so, I didn't endanger the lives of people or animals.

There was a famous incident when a few mids jeopardized the well-being of a "Jimmy Legs" (civilian security guards that used to patrol USNA) while trying to move an airplane on the yard as a prank. The guard was not harmed by the mids, but was frightened and may have injured himself chasing the perpetrators.

The 'Dant awakened the brigade and called us to formation at 0130. He put entire brigade "in hack" until the guilty parties came forward. I can promise you that every single mid who was at USNA at the time remembered that night. And the lesson we learned -- that pranks can have unintended, serious consequences and that, if you decide to engage in one, you'd better be prepared to accept the consequences if it goes awry. As an aside, that 'Dant went on to become a 4-star admiral.
 
I don’t understand your double standard - youthful/overzealous mistake of a spirit mission gone wrong, expel the cadet vs on TV, forever recorded, a heat of moment, stuff like this happen counseling by the coach. I will be more understanding of personal fouls during the game as tempers get high, but when the game is not being played. Are cadets supposed to be comrades when the game is over?

Because one is a violation of federal law and against the rules of the rivalry weeks and one is a rude gesture.

I honestly could not care last about a player flipping the bird during a chippy game. A coach should talk to him but thats it.


Those firsties broke into the private residence of an O-6 and injured a mascot during their "prank." They should absolutely know better by this point, and since they don't they don't deserve to commission.
 
People on this site post about all kinds of things that they actually know nothing about. Zero. They don't know, they can't know, and they won't know. Yet, they post as facts.

I like this site. It was useful to my son to understand nuance when he was applying for ROTC scholarships and seeking appointments. But, at times it gets off the rails. This thread is an example....
 
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