USAFA Summer Seminar

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Joeman, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    Hello
    Is there a high correlation between getting accepted into USAFA Summer Seminar and getting an appointment into USAFA(given that you get a nomination)?
    USAFA Summer Seminar acceptance rate was far lower than USNA Summer Seminar acceptance rate. This makes me to believe that the chances of you getting into the Summer Seminar and getting into the actual school is very high.
    I have heard that going to USAFA Summer Seminar does not help your chances of getting into the academy. I have also heard it does help your chances of getting in and the admissions board has seen your name before but the academy cannot say this.
    Any responses will help.
    Thank you all.
     
  2. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    Use the search function above to find the numerous threads about the correlation between summer seminar attendance and offer of appointment. General consensus is that summer seminar does not confer any particular advantage in admissions.

    Summer seminar attendees are not all chosen purely on merit. It’s a recruiting tool to reach out to under-represented regions and groups. Many with higher qualifications don’t get into summer seminar because they’re not from these regions or groups.

    That’s one reason why there’s not a high correlation. The other reason is that many who attend summer seminar decide academy life isn’t for them and don’t apply. The vast majority of cadets/mids did not attend summer seminar. So frankly, it’s not worth worrying about.
     
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  3. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    Thank you so much!
     
  4. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..." 5-Year Member

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    It's for people who are "on the fence" about attending.
     
  5. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Not sure about correlation between AFASS and Appointment but USAFA and ALOs do put out statements that about 60% of their Offers go to AFASS attendees vs USNA 15%. USNA % is far lower because they admit several thousand into NASS vs AFA 700 and USMA 1,000. Although I don’t believe there is direct correlation I do believe that about 50% are expected to be successful in securing Appointment from USAFA and USMA. Because Academies already do a good job screening about 35-50% of the potential applicants to their Academies during the summer for the following year. Numbers back this up. Having had my DS attend all Academy Programs I believe Summer Seminar is a recruiting test for both the applicants and for the Academy. Sometimes Academies intentionally not select candidates they feel that they are certain he she would apply anyways or coming from families with deep military background. So you have better chance if coming from a non military background and from URM community. Enjoy the Summer at the Academy in every ways and explore if the Academy would be a good fit for you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  6. KansasMan

    KansasMan Candidate for USAFA Class of 2023

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    Others have explained its purpose, but a direct answer is that the admissions board doesn't even consider it when handing out appointments.
    It's the same as putting "Attended a college visit" on your resume to a regular college.
     
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  7. candor

    candor Member

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    ^^ so 3 years ago, I was a junior in high school, applying to all the summer seminars. I got rejected from all of them, except NASS (USNA). When senior year rolled along, I applied for all 5 service academies. I got into all of them (eventually), and USNA was the last one to notify me. The summer programs are mainly (as stated above) used as recruiting tools, or for people to try their hand at a small piece of academy life. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions! I am currently a plebe at USMA :)
     
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  8. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    I attended AFASS and I come from a military background. My father was an O-6 and my sibling just graduated USAFA
     
  9. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    Thank you so much! Also, Good Luck!
     
  10. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    Makes sense to me! Thank you!
     
  11. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    No one person has the same experience. My grandfather was an Air Force O-7. My father fought in the Korean War in the Army. My DS went to AFASS and USMA SLE but got turned down on NASS even though we thought he qualified with no Navy relationship in his background. He was offered CVW from USNA. DS turned down Navy CVW in Junior Year. Nevertheless, his first LOA came from USNA in Sep then an Appointment followed in January. Summer Seminars are good recruiting tool on both sides to candidates and to SAs. Candidates get a good quick look to see if they have a good fit with more than one SAs many do with more than one. My DS is now a Plebe at Annapolis. You will know with certainty where you will report by April. For some by June.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  12. pooled18

    pooled18 Member

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    What they told us at USAFASS was that while they don't intentionally select for it, those that attend SS typically are appointed/accept appointments at higher rates than those who do not attend.
     
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  13. Joeman

    Joeman New Member

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    I went to USAFASS and I dont remember them saying that :/ . My squad leader might have not told us that. I don't remember the admissions officer saying that either. I might have missed it.
     
  14. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator 10-Year Member

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    Okay...here's the official word (I rarely say that): attendance at USAFA summer seminar will have NO impact on the individual candidates appointment potential.

    Period.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
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  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    As Flieger mentioned, there is no official correlation between attending summer seminar and receiving an appointment.

    There are a lot of topics brought up on this forum, that are very misleading because of a person's "Perspective". And unfortunately, people on this forum are no different than anyone else. They have perspectives and they can be very misleading.

    For this topic, and MANY OTHERS, lets "Clarify" a few things with some truths.

    TRUTHS:
    1. ALL of the people who visit and post on this forum are MORE serious about attending the academy than the average applicant.
    2. The number of people visiting and posting on this forum represents only about 1% of all those applying to a service academy.
    3. The majority of those posting on this forum have a military academy as their #1 school on their list for college.
    4. For MORE than HALF of those applying to service academies, the academy is NOT their #1 school on their college list. For MANY, it's "Plan B"
    5. The amount of people applying and accepting appointments to the academies is related to the economy, unemployment rate, etc.
    6. There are MANY YEARS recorded, where 500+/- appointments were TURNED DOWN.
    7. Just because you've "Wanted the academy your whole life"; doesn't mean every applicant feels that way.
    8. Just because you've "Wanted the academy your whole life"; doesn't mean you'll receive an appointment.
    9. Just because you've "Wanted the academy your whole life"; doesn't mean you're better prepared for the academy.
    10. Just because you've "Wanted the academy your whole life"; doesn't increase your odds of receiving an appointment.
    11. Being in JrROTC, CAP, Scouts, etc. doesn't prepare you any more for the academy/military, than does band, sports, 4H, etc.
    12. There is NO CORRELATION between applying/accepted to Summer Seminar and applying/accepted to the academy.
    13. There IS HOWEVER a correlation between APPLYING to summer seminar and receiving a nomination. (MOC's see you're SERIOUS).
    14. The academies have years of experience with appointments. They PLAN and EXPECT a certain number to turn them down or quit once accepted.
    15. Accepting an appointment and changing your mind later; before/during/after BCT; does NOT affect someone NOT receiving an appointment.
    16. The person who receives an appointment, busted their butt for it. They EARNED it. Therefor, they EARNED the right to change their mind later.

    Individuals who attend/visit/post on this forum are unique. You are NOT the norm. You are more determined to apply and receive an appointment. But you are a MINORITY of applicants. MOST of the posters on this forum are the same as you, or are parents of people like you, or are alumni of the academies, or are retired/active duty, etc. The bottom line is: Being on this forum gives you a leg up, but when thinking about the academies, the rules, the process, the life, etc. your perspective is NOT THE NORM. The NORM for all appointees are a bunch of civilian teenagers; Type-A personalities; accepted to any/all colleges they apply to; seeing the academies as a "COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY" primarily and as "THE MILITARY" secondly.

    Your perspective is what defines your opinions. Realize that your perspective on the academies is different because of this forum and your interaction with members here. The vast majority of those applying to the academies don't have your perspective. Therefor, the academies don't have your perspectives. For the academies, it's simply a NUMBERS GAME. They are applying for your business, just like every other school is. For those majority who apply; it's simply "Another College Application".
     
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  16. Hut234

    Hut234 Member

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    "11. Being in JrROTC, CAP, Scouts, etc. doesn't prepare you any more for the academy/military, than does band, sports, 4H, etc."

    I disagree. JROTC and Civil Air Patrol will set you up with basic knowledge about military life, drill, customs and courtesies, and discipline. You can't really learn all these (at least the "military" way) from sports or band. This is why completion of a certain amount of years or earning a specific rank in these programs will start you off with a higher rank if you enlist.
     
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  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    That's ok. You're allowed to disagree. You're not going to change my mind, but that's ok. I was involved in JrROTC and Scouts. Also in Band and many sports. I also spent 21 years in the air force. I stand by what I said.

    FWIW: If you have any college credits at all, you can enter enlisted with a higher rank. Giving you an early enlisted promotion is entirely a marketing ploy. It has absolutely nothing with you being "Better Prepared" for the military. Sorry.

    And for what it's worth, there's nothing worse than trying to UN-TEACH or break people of "Bad Habits". Someone entering the military with NO EXPERIENCE but willing to learn, is much easier to learn and adapt than those who think they already know.

    1. Academy Life and "Military Life" are 2 different things.
    2. Custom and Courtesy is simply memorization. Any mammal can be taught.
    3. Drill and Discipline is very much exactly the same in band and sports as it is in the military. Matter of fact, band probably learns drill better; and sports probably learns discipline better than what you'll learn at the academy.

    The 2 groups I consider to have a "Head Start" on entering the academy and military are: a) Military Brats & b) Hard core high level Athletes. They are the 2 groups that truly understand the concept of real team work. Both these 2 groups are involved in it almost daily, every day of their lives. And that's what the academy and military are about.

    Sorry; but I stand by my position. I've been there; done it, got the t-shirt and the movie rights. But you can disagree. That's cool.
     
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  18. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Great summary @Christcorp. But I would have to disagree with points 2, 4, 11 and agree with you on the rest. People who participate on this Forum definitely represent more than 10% based on the responses given on past posting of Appointments thread. There are many passive lurkers on this Forum like the way I started when I had nothing to add but to absorb. I am still a Junior member and have much less to add to the Forum compared to many Veteran posters here.

    Point 4 I believe it is more than half. In fact I would compare like those applying to the Ivies who apply to certain Ivy schools as their top choice but reach schools. More than 2/3 who get accepted enroll. It is higher number for the SA applicants, I would estimate that number to 80%+.

    Point 11, I believe being in programs like JROTC CAPs and Scouting are quite different to being an Athlete or in Student Govt or School Band. They bring different experience and different readiness and training. They learn team work and leadership from a different dimension. Scouting has the broadest universe training towards leadership and citizenship. JROTC is very specific to military service while you train towards leadership with citizenship. Athletic teaches you teamwork and competition perserverence but the program focus is not towards leadership. Some walk away as leaders but not all. Student govt leaders are issue leaders and organizers. So different program experience develop different competencies. Not one is equal.
     
  19. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Crewdad:
    1. Approximately 12,000 people apply to the air force academy each year. I doubt very much there are 1,200 NEW PEOPLE each year participating on this forum. Obviously, we can't count non-registered lurkers, but I think the number of participating members NEW EACH YEAR is closer to the 120 than the 1200.
    2. Prior to the Class of 2015, the academy gave out appointments in much larger blocks and earlier; instead of the slower trickle method. The NORM each year was to OFFER 1700+ appointments, because approximately 500+/- would Turn Down the appointment each year. I stand by only about 50% have the academy that they get an appointment to, as their #1 choice of schools. I've seen way too many appointees who PREFERRED a different academy; or didn't get the acceptance or financial aid they applied for to their #1 university. Add those to all the ones who turn down the appointments; and I stand by my 50%
    3. I believe JrROTC and Scouts are excellent programs. I was involved in both. As well as band and sports. I am not saying one or the other will make you a better cadet or leader. Simply saying that JrROTC, CAP, and Scouts doesn't prepare you any more for the academy than does band, athletics, etc. You're not expected to enter the academy "Knowing anything". The only experiences they like when it comes to the appointee having leadership, team building, etc. are experiences that make the individual predisposed to learning. Someone "Familiar" with the concept of being a team member, being a follower, being a leader, being part of something bigger than yourself and working towards common goals. Simply saying that a Brat or High Level Athlete has literally been doing this their entire life. Not just a couple of years in high school. They are accustomed to the discipline; being coached; being expected to follow orders (Almost blindly). I'm simply saying; from my experiences; those who tend to have had the easiest time in academy BCT or active duty basic training, were Brats and high end athletes. It's a lifestyle of discipline that is no different than they've been accustomed to their whole life.

    On a side note: For those who don't understand fully how impactful athletics (High level Organized) truly is; the NCAA sent this list of attributes to most universities in the country. In the hopes of dispelling many stereotypes of athletics. Especially the "Dumb Jock" stereotype. Most schools; once they read this list; realized that organized athletics was a lot more important than they realized. Here's the list of attributes that "Competitive Athletics" brings with the athlete. Not that other activities can't bring some of these attributes; just that high level athletics combine more of these attributes compared to most other activities.

    "Attention to detail , Awareness of diversity, Challenging yourself , Commitment,Communication, Competition , Confidence , Cooperation , Coordination , Decision making , Dedication, Determination , Diligence, Discipline, Endurance, Fitness, Flexibility, Focus ,Following plans/directions, Give/take feedback and criticism ,Goal-directed ,Improvement , Integrity,Individual/group effort, Keeping records, Leadership, Learning from failure ,Management, Multi-tasking , Organization ,Overcome obstacles , Pain/fatigue management, Patience,Performance, Persistence , Positive attitude, Prioritizing , Problem solving,Punctuality , Pursuit of excellence , Respect , Responsibility, Scheduling, Self-directed ,Self-esteem, Set goals , Strategies , Stress management, Supervision ,Tactics (offense/defense), Teaching , Teamwork , Thinking on your feet, Time management, Training motivation, Work ethic ."

    For what it's worth, I believe a lot of the "Me Generation" has lost out on a lot because of the change in social norms. Many schools/society discouraging any type of competition. No class rank. Don't keep score. Everyone gets a trophy. etc. Many young people aren't prepared for the "REAL WORLD". In the real world, you aren't guaranteed a job. Many employers are going to tell you that they chose someone else. That you weren't "THE BEST CHOICE". That you weren't "GOOD ENOUGH". Same with promotions and advancement in the real world. It's great to think you're the best and have a high level of confidence. But you MUST learn how to fail and how to handle failure. Until you learn that, you'll never be the best leader you potentially could be. And the more society rejects the concept of winning/losing, best/worst, rankings, etc. the more some people will never be able to to learn how to be the best they are capable of.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 2:53 PM
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  20. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    @Christcorp. Thank you for sharing your experience. No doubt you have passionate opinion on these topics.