USAFA vs. ROTC programs? (in terms of life after)

Don't come to USAFA if you want to be a doctor. It usually doesn't work out. Your best bet is a civilian college, I'd say skip the ROTC thing and just focus on school and start a few clubs if you want to be a doctor.
 
PhilDavidsonUSAFA said:
Don't come to USAFA if you want to be a doctor. It usually doesn't work out. Your best bet is a civilian college, I'd say skip the ROTC thing and just focus on school and start a few clubs if you want to be a doctor.
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PhilDavidson, can you please explain in more detail why the USAFA would not be a good route for becoming a doctor? Thanks.
 
FalconsRock said:
PhilDavidson, can you please explain in more detail why the USAFA would not be a good route for becoming a doctor? Thanks.
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I'll ask my friends who are in the Bio and Chem departments in the next few days and see if I can get some real information here instead of just hearsay.
 
It seems like this kid just wants to be a doctor and wants to use USAFA as a means to that end. Trust me kid, it WILL NOT work like that, now explore other options to becoming a doctor...cough...civilian pre-med program. Hopefully you'll heed my advice and save yourself a lot of time and trouble.
 
The carrot on the stick, the "free" education, is sometimes a shiny lure that some can't see past. To our OP: if you want to be an AF officer, please do apply & get your nom and appointment, get through the four years, apply to med school, get accepted, and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE the AF will send you on their dime.

If you want to be a doctor, and not necessarily an officer, go civ.
 
Okay, here's the deal according to my friend who is pursuing med school out of the AFA (practically verbatim, I took out some identifying info):
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Friend: "USAFA is a pretty tough school to go to medical school from. However, it is a good school if you don't mind waiting two years after graduation. What holds people back is the competition and aggressiveness between people trying to go - it's the top biochem and bio students for the most part, and they don't quite like helping each other up until junior year fall semester (selection board to apply to med school). There are approx 10-20 slots each year for med school, with currently 75+ top people in our class trying."

AFrpaso: "You have to wait two years after graduation? So the slots get filled every year?"

Friend: "No, two years after graduation is if you don't get selected immediately from USAFA to go. You choose a flexible AFSC, serve 2 years and then apply. Depending on the needs of the AF you are almost guaranteed permission to attend. Slots don't get filled every year, which is surprising. Last year out of the kids who were selected some did poorly on the MCAT, so 2 slots went unused. USAFA is a great school aside from all of this because it diversifies your resume and is an outstanding display of leadership and character - great for to med schools. So if you don't mind waiting, you can head to med school a few years after undergrad like most every other med school student.

AFrpaso: "Understood, thanks! Anything else I should pass along?"

Friend: "There are great opportunities here like shadowing doctors and becoming an EMT for free - amazing on a med school application! Honestly, it isn't a hard place to go straight to medical school from if you are comfortable that you can hold your ground with you grades."
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I briefly spoke to a few more people in those departments and the general consensus isn't that the AF doesn't have enough slots for people to go to med school, it's that USAFA creates an environment in which it is difficult to complete all the necessary med school prereqs and keep grades high enough to stay competitive in the actual med school application process. That is what usually stops people from getting where they want to go. As I understand it, the two year active duty route is practically guaranteed (or course things change from year to year).

It doesn't sound as bad as I had previously heard so I apologize for being misinformed!
 
The folks who live across the street from us have three daughters who are all either AF docs or in medical school on the AF dime. They were all AFROTC.
 
AFrpaso said:
Okay, here's the deal according to my friend who is pursuing med school out of the AFA (practically verbatim, I took out some identifying info):
----------------------
Friend: "USAFA is a pretty tough school to go to medical school from. However, it is a good school if you don't mind waiting two years after graduation. What holds people back is the competition and aggressiveness between people trying to go - it's the top biochem and bio students for the most part, and they don't quite like helping each other up until junior year fall semester (selection board to apply to med school). There are approx 10-20 slots each year for med school, with currently 75+ top people in our class trying."

AFrpaso: "You have to wait two years after graduation? So the slots get filled every year?"

Friend: "No, two years after graduation is if you don't get selected immediately from USAFA to go. You choose a flexible AFSC, serve 2 years and then apply. Depending on the needs of the AF you are almost guaranteed permission to attend. Slots don't get filled every year, which is surprising. Last year out of the kids who were selected some did poorly on the MCAT, so 2 slots went unused. USAFA is a great school aside from all of this because it diversifies your resume and is an outstanding display of leadership and character - great for to med schools. So if you don't mind waiting, you can head to med school a few years after undergrad like most every other med school student.

AFrpaso: "Understood, thanks! Anything else I should pass along?"

Friend: "There are great opportunities here like shadowing doctors and becoming an EMT for free - amazing on a med school application! Honestly, it isn't a hard place to go straight to medical school from if you are comfortable that you can hold your ground with you grades."
----------------------

I briefly spoke to a few more people in those departments and the general consensus isn't that the AF doesn't have enough slots for people to go to med school, it's that USAFA creates an environment in which it is difficult to complete all the necessary med school prereqs and keep grades high enough to stay competitive in the actual med school application process. That is what usually stops people from getting where they want to go. As I understand it, the two year active duty route is practically guaranteed (or course things change from year to year).

It doesn't sound as bad as I had previously heard so I apologize for being misinformed!
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AFrpaso, thank you so much for that information. It definitely makes things clearer, and you are right, it is not as bad as I first thought. My DD is considering that route and we have spoken to her about her chances. IMHO, a more direct and perhaps guaranteed if you are a good student, would be to go to state college for pre-med, apply to med school and concurrently apply to either HPSP or HSCP. Her attitude is, she wants to go to the USAFA first and foremost, she will take her chances and she is aware that she may not get what she wants. She is willing to wait on medical school if she has to, but if accepted to the AFA she feels like if she doesn't go, she will regret it for the rest of her life. As long as her eyes are wide open and she understands the risks and consequences, then I say go for it. It is her decision anyhow, but a well informed decision is a must.

On another note, what are the "flexible AFSCs" if one were not selected for the medical school track?

Thanks again for bird dogging this. I have been trying to no avail to search the forum for such information. I probably just had the wrong key words. :D
 
fencersmother said:
The folks who live across the street from us have three daughters who are all either AF docs or in medical school on the AF dime. They were all AFROTC.
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Fencersmother, we have researched the AFROTC as well, and I believe she will apply, but it seems the ROTC offers the least chance for medical school because that major is non-rated. It seems if not selected for SFT, and they take the rated technical people first, if you don't get a spot, you are let go. Seems there is more risk than any other route. I am not saying it is impossible, but less likely for non-rated majors. It would, however, be an easier environment for studying and finishing required prerequisites for med school and more time to study for MCAT. I guess it depends on whether or not you want to take the risk. She has to make that decision if she is selected. It certainly would be nice if my daughter could talk to one of those outstanding young ladies :)
 
It sounds like things haven't changed much since I went through the Pre-med process at USAFA 5 years ago. AFrpaso's info is pretty spot on. I'll reiterate from having done that process some of the information.

Usually, the number of med school slots are not filled each year. There are slots held for doctor, dentist, and nurse. They also have several "flex" spots that can go to any of those categories if they fill up but more qualified candidates are available. This isn't often used. Why? By the time med school application time comes around, there are usually fewer people qualified to apply than slots available. In my year (a pretty typical year), around 15 people went to med school and there were about 18 slots available.

Why so few? The first killer is the organic chemistry requirements. My year, 50% of the organic chemistry class got Ds or Fs. It was a mix of chem majors, bio majors, and everyone else trying to go pre-med from other majors (much more difficult because of the class requirement). That was sophomore year. USAFA has switched organic and physical chemistry so orgo is 2 dig year now - changes the dynamic slightly. That also whittled down the chemistry major. My year we graduated 18 chem majors.

Next, everyone needs the other class requirements. If you aren't bio or chem, these become difficult to fit into the schedule. After that, you need sufficient grades (3.25+, 3.0 absolute minimum [but few are able to with less than 3.25]) and decent MCAT scores. All said and done, few people are qualified to get into a med school at this point.

A lot of people try and a LOT of people think they have what it takes to be qualified when they get to USAFA. The reality is that few will. If your life is all about being a doctor, USAFA is a long shot compared to other programs.
 
hornetguy said:
It sounds like things haven't changed much since I went through the Pre-med process at USAFA 5 years ago. AFrpaso's info is pretty spot on. I'll reiterate from having done that process some of the information.

Usually, the number of med school slots are not filled each year. There are slots held for doctor, dentist, and nurse. They also have several "flex" spots that can go to any of those categories if they fill up but more qualified candidates are available. This isn't often used. Why? By the time med school application time comes around, there are usually fewer people qualified to apply than slots available. In my year (a pretty typical year), around 15 people went to med school and there were about 18 slots available.

Why so few? The first killer is the organic chemistry requirements. My year, 50% of the organic chemistry class got Ds or Fs. It was a mix of chem majors, bio majors, and everyone else trying to go pre-med from other majors (much more difficult because of the class requirement). That was sophomore year. USAFA has switched organic and physical chemistry so orgo is 2 dig year now - changes the dynamic slightly. That also whittled down the chemistry major. My year we graduated 18 chem majors.

Next, everyone needs the other class requirements. If you aren't bio or chem, these become difficult to fit into the schedule. After that, you need sufficient grades (3.25+, 3.0 absolute minimum [but few are able to with less than 3.25]) and decent MCAT scores. All said and done, few people are qualified to get into a med school at this point.

A lot of people try and a LOT of people think they have what it takes to be qualified when they get to USAFA. The reality is that few will. If your life is all about being a doctor, USAFA is a long shot compared to other programs.
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Thanks Hornetguy, again, great information. I was not aware that so many people went that route for pre-med. Did you end up in med school?
 
FalconsRock said:
fencersmother said:
The folks who live across the street from us have three daughters who are all either AF docs or in medical school on the AF dime. They were all AFROTC.
Click to expand...

Fencersmother, we have researched the AFROTC as well, and I believe she will apply, but it seems the ROTC offers the least chance for medical school because that major is non-rated. It seems if not selected for SFT, and they take the rated technical people first, if you don't get a spot, you are let go. Seems there is more risk than any other route. I am not saying it is impossible, but less likely for non-rated majors. It would, however, be an easier environment for studying and finishing required prerequisites for med school and more time to study for MCAT. I guess it depends on whether or not you want to take the risk. She has to make that decision if she is selected. It certainly would be nice if my daughter could talk to one of those outstanding young ladies :)
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Just for clarification regarding SFT. The 1st priority will be her intended major. Tech or non-tech. Tech rated has the highest chance, but tech non-rated is not far behind. Non-tech non-rated is the high risk cadet for selection.

This years class had 90+% selected, but the problem is you will never know the selection rate because only @20% are on scholarship. Walk ons can change the pool size by a lot. The year that had 58% overall was a huge year group.

I don't disagree that it is a risk, but as you know with the military you always have to have plan B,C and D in place when you go after your plan A.

So many kids walk in thinking that because I did great in these classes in HS, this should be a fit for me. They are young and once they become exposed to other things, the majority of them in my opinion change their path. Out of my 3 kids, only 1 stayed in his same major. Of course, it was our AF DS!
 
Question - is USAFA the "SA" for med school? What about the marines? How are their competition slots? I dont mean to talk about this in the wrong SA area, since topic is already in the middle of the jam I thought I would ask
Also - alot of people just assume this because I am a new person and appear uneducated on this topic, but I am actually passionate about the AF and have wanted to do this for a long time. THis combines both my interests so naturally i am eager to take thisup. I pay my debts and am not a scholarship freeloader
 
jamestribe said:
Question - is USAFA the "SA" for med school? What about the marines? How are their competition slots? I dont mean to talk about this in the wrong SA area, since topic is already in the middle of the jam I thought I would ask
Also - alot of people just assume this because I am a new person and appear uneducated on this topic, but I am actually passionate about the AF and have wanted to do this for a long time. THis combines both my interests so naturally i am eager to take thisup. I pay my debts and am not a scholarship freeloader
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Jamestribe, what do you mean by your question? There is no "SA" for medical school that I am aware of. There are different majors offered at each of the academies and each academy has their own mission. We have been discussing different routes to get to medical school via the military but there is no SA that is a medical school. USUHS is the only military medical school that I am aware of, but there may be another. Not sure what you want to know. I can't tell you about the marines, as I think they can come from USNA or maybe one of the other SA but not the AFA.
 
Hello, this is what I mean - Is AFA the only academy that has the potential to produce doctors? I know they offer courses like biology and chemistry to make the pre-med reqs, but does the USNA for example also offer the same capacities of getting all the premed requirements in to go to med school?
 
Jamestribe, you can go to each academy site and research the majors offered there. You can review their course catalogs and get the answer to your questions.
 
jamestribe,

I mean this with kindness, but I think it is time you do some real research, such as, visiting www.usna.edu www.usma.edu goarmy.com and afrotc.com

FYI, the reason I ask this question is because of your Marine comment. There is no Marine SA, unless you mean USNA.

Xposted with FalconsRock
 
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Jamestribe,

If you don't mind mean asking, how old are you right now?

What are your stats? Are you even a match for USAFA? What are your plan B schools?

We all want to help, but if it appears we are being harsh, it is because the military expects a level of self sufficiency, and right now it feels more like we are spoon feeding you at this time.

Getting an appointment requires clearing a ton of hurdles. One is an MOC nomination. Not knowing the differences between SAs will probably hurt you on the essay of why I want to attend.
 
FalconsRock said:
Jamestribe, you can go to each academy site and research the majors offered there. You can review their course catalogs and get the answer to your questions.
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I agree. Review their catalogs.

jamestribe,

Do you know what ADAF members call USAFA?
~ The little engineering school in the Rockies.

If you see their course catalogs you will understand why. No matter what your intended major is, you will be taking a ton of science and math classes.
~ Our DS had 4 noms (3 MOCs and Presidential). He also had an AFROTC scholarship. This was a kid with a 33/34 ACT best sitting and 720M SAT. He wanted to major in Govt. He went AFROTC after he read the mandated course curriculum for every cadet. He was strong in Math, but had no desire to take 4 more years in classes, where most colleges would award an engineering degree with the level of courses.
 
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