USCGA Class of 2024 Rejection Thread

A

AppDad

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Dec 21, 2019
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18
Hello friends,

My DS received a rejection letter. We were very surprised based on his combination of SAT scores (1350), raw gpa, multi-sport athlete, AP classes, was recruited, and would be third generation coast guard.

Another parent indicated that his son had a 1400 SAT, was twice captain of his football team, had a 3.92 and was #3 in his class along with similar stats.

I am asking for help. Can you please list your child’s stats here if they received a rejection letter?


ADD YOUR NAME: This is self-reporting, self-updating and DIY. Copy the most recent list, paste into new post, add a new row number, enter your info in the stated format, and post.

FORMAT:
rownumber / Forum name / candidate gender - DD or DS / Candidate race / raw gpa / AP Calc or other/ varsity athletics / performing arts / leadership/ recruited yes or no/ anything else


1) AppDad / DS / white / 1350 / 3.82 / AP Calc and AP Psych / varsity football and baseball / lead school musical / archdiocese philadelphia student athlete leadership council/ recruited yes / father CGA grad and expeditionary medal protected veteran, grandfather 25 years enlisted Coast Guard
 
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Stealth_81 said:
In my whole time on this forum I can’t remember anyone starting a thread for rejected applicants.

What is supposed to be gained by this?

Stealth_81
Click to expand...

I am seeking to build an aggregated, anonymous data profile of rejected candidates. There is a lot of guessing and misinformation on these posts. Compiling data should help clarify.
 
I do feel for you because my DS was in the same situation 4 years ago. He was denied early action his senior year of high school with what I thought was a pretty strong file. The good news is he will be returning to the academy to finish to 2/C year at the end of the week. One year at a community college with mostly A's, an improved ACT score to 32 (roughly equivalent to over 1400 on the SAT) and solid fitness scores enabled him to be awarded an appointment the next year in February. The first thing you have to understand is the most common applicant to a service academy is a white male from a high caliber high school. Your son is not competing against everyone who applied, he is competing against other white males from really competitive high schools who applied. Also you are from the northeastern US, which is disproportionately represented at the academy. If he was from Idaho or Montana, he may have a better shot. Point is that asking everybody who was denied for their statistics is probably not going to provide you with an anymore satisfying answer then I am giving you. If he really wants the academy then working to get the SAT score over 1400 and doing well in his first year of college will put him in excellent shape for an appointment next year. I know it is not what most kids want to here but there are advantages. My son took chemistry in college and so he did not have to take it as a 4/C. He also validated other classes and has been able to take electives outside his major which he has really enjoyed. He was also able to get another year bigger and stronger as he was more focused on getting a higher fitness test score. Finally, he was able to see that college life outside the academy was not all it was cracked up to be and didn't make the academy experience seem so bad.
 
Maybe misery loves company, but I would think a more productive thing to do would be to reach out privately to your admissions counselor for constructive information as to why.

As competitive as the process is, there are going to be lots of super qualified applicants who don’t receive an appointment but I don’t see how this ‘collects data points’ that will lend to anything helpful. It doesn’t account for intangibles at all.
 
One thing to point out is the need for geographic diversity at the academy. Looking at the population and percentages, it seems that PA would receive maybe 4-5 white male appointees total, including CGAS, recruited athletes and college reapplicants. Does it seem unreasonable that there would be a very, very few other white male candidates that would have a higher WCS in the state?

The Academy's admissions decision is in no way a negative reflection on your DS, merely an illustration of the highly competitive nature of the process.
 
FutureAdademyDad? said:
One thing to point out is the need for geographic diversity at the academy. Looking at the population and percentages, it seems that PA would receive maybe 4-5 white male appointees total, including CGAS, recruited athletes and college reapplicants. Does it seem unreasonable that there would be a very, very few other white male candidates that would have a higher WCS in the state?

The Academy's admissions decision is in no way a negative reflection on your DS, merely an illustration of the highly competitive nature of the process.
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I have read this theme a couple of times on this forum. Why would that matter? Why wouldn’t I want the best 300 candidates in the country, and if 20 happen to come from Pennsylvania this year, then so be it?

Its 2020. Americans don’t live in tribes. We are mobile. Most people move at some point growing up. Who cares what state someone is from? The key questions are can they handle the STEM curriculum, do they have physical gifts including courage, and can they lead?
 
AppDad said:
I have read this theme a couple of times on this forum. Why would that matter? Why wouldn’t I want the best 300 candidates in the country, and if 20 happen to come from Pennsylvania this year, then so be it?

Its 2020. Americans don’t live in tribes. We are mobile. Most people move at some point growing up. Who cares what state someone is from? The key questions are can they handle the STEM curriculum, do they have physical gifts including courage, and can they lead?
Click to expand...
The academies are federal funding institutions, so yes there is going to be some regional politics involved. The whole country pays for the academy with their taxes, so yes it is reasonable to expect that the academy attempts to bring in cadets from the country as a whole. Making it a regional academy that accepts only from one part of the country could actually make it a target for future politicians looking to save a quick buck. If none of the politicians constitutes are getting in, why should that politician continue to offer support?
 
justdoit19 said:
Maybe misery loves company, but I would think a more productive thing to do would be to reach out privately to your admissions counselor for constructive information as to why.

As competitive as the process is, there are going to be lots of super qualified applicants who don’t receive an appointment but I don’t see how this ‘collects data points’ that will lend to anything helpful. It doesn’t account for intangibles at all.
Click to expand...
This is why the referenced lawsuits fail. College admissions isn't just about stacking number and taking the top however many. It is a more holistic approach with an eye towards building a diverse class. All universities and colleges, including the service academies, need football players and cheerleaders and band members and a hundred other types of people to build a school that kids will want to attend and parents will want to spend their money on. How long are the ivies attractive places to go if they only accept kids with 1600 SAT's? Can you imagine that environment?

At a super small school like CGA, it is even more important that the kids who receive an offer fill a niche or several niches. If they don't fill a niche other than academics, and they are pretty average at academics, it shouldn't be a surprise that they would be on the bubble. And lets face it, a 1350 is pretty average if you are looking to fill a spot in the academics niche at CGA. With CGA's mission, there is the very important aspect of leadership, and suitability to lead. Academic numbers are a very poor predictor of suitability for leadership. There are already way too many Poindexters at CGA, which is why they are trying to interview all applicants.

As to Appdad's previous comments about choosing those who can handle the academics versus pursuing a diverse student body, you might want to look at graduation rates for your year versus graduation rates of modern day classes. It seems like the academy is doing a much better job of picking kids who can handle the academics now. Its also important to note that the class average standardized test scores keep rising year after year after year.



Correction - a 1350 SAT is below average in early action, despite many recruited athletes applying early action.

The most recent Early Action class stats released by CGA are for the Great Class of 2022. Here are the numbers - note that the AVERAGE SAT score of the 189 appointees is 1385.

834 Applicants
189 Appointments
39 CGAS Appointments
Of the 189 appointments to the Class of 2022...
49% AIM Graduates
Average ACT Scores: 32 E 31 M 8 W
Average SAT Scores: 675 ERW 710 M 6 W (from Essay)
Average HS Rank: 13% (includes reported and calculated HSRs)
Average GPA: 3.83 (unweighted GPAs converted to a 4.00 scale)
Average PFE Score: 222
43 U.S. states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico are represented in addition to U.S. citizens living in Ecuador and Jordan
 
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FYI to @AppDad and others interested, this is an often discussed topic. One you can find a lot of posts using the search function, if interested.
 
Trust me when I say I 100% understand your post.

We all believe our kids are amazing (and have the stats to back up our claimsl!!) so when a third party says “no thank you “ to them the sting is quite shocking. It’s the most natural thing in the world to ask “why?” .

DS is applying to USNA and we have not heard a yes or no (or “wait”, ie NAPS) but during this time we are mentally preparing for the possibility of *any* of those three responses. From reading this forum the past year, including threads posted a decade ago, I have learned this one (comforting) fact... **thousands *** of extremely highly qualified young men and women will NOT be selected to attend the service academy of their choice and to question why and compare your DS/DD’s stats to other “rejected” ones will not you yield any satisfying answer in the end. The sting will subside once the family moves on and focuses on Plans B - Z.

I guess what I’m saying is It is no use howling at the moon. I send my condolences and {{{mom hugs }}}} through this forum, all of our hearts are breaking along with you (because any wise person would know it could happen to them too) but your time would be spent more productively towards healing by moving onto the “next step” ❤
 
Korab said:
This is why the referenced lawsuits fail. College admissions isn't just about stacking number and taking the top however many. It is a more holistic approach with an eye towards building a diverse class. All universities and colleges, including the service academies, need football players and cheerleaders and band members and a hundred other types of people to build a school that kids will want to attend and parents will want to spend their money on. How long are the ivies attractive places to go if they only accept kids with 1600 SAT's? Can you imagine that environment?

At a super small school like CGA, it is even more important that the kids who receive an offer fill a niche or several niches. If they don't fill a niche other than academics, and they are pretty average at academics, it shouldn't be a surprise that they would be on the bubble. And lets face it, a 1350 is pretty average if you are looking to fill a spot in the academics niche at CGA. With CGA's mission, there is the very important aspect of leadership, and suitability to lead. Academic numbers are a very poor predictor of suitability for leadership. There are already way too many Poindexters at CGA, which is why they are trying to interview all applicants.

As to Appdad's previous comments about choosing those who can handle the academics versus pursuing a diverse student body, you might want to look at graduation rates for your year versus graduation rates of modern day classes. It seems like the academy is doing a much better job of picking kids who can handle the academics now. Its also important to note that the class average standardized test scores keep rising year after year after year.



Correction - a 1350 SAT is below average in early action, despite many recruited athletes applying early action.

The most recent Early Action class stats released by CGA are for the Great Class of 2022. Here are the numbers - note that the AVERAGE SAT score of the 189 appointees is 1385.

834 Applicants
189 Appointments
39 CGAS Appointments
Of the 189 appointments to the Class of 2022...
49% AIM Graduates
Average ACT Scores: 32 E 31 M 8 W
Average SAT Scores: 675 ERW 710 M 6 W (from Essay)
Average HS Rank: 13% (includes reported and calculated HSRs)
Average GPA: 3.83 (unweighted GPAs converted to a 4.00 scale)
Average PFE Score: 222
43 U.S. states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico are represented in addition to U.S. citizens living in Ecuador and Jordan
Click to expand...
Only ACT English, Math and Writing are listed in these stats. Do you know if that’s only what they look at, similar to USMMA and USNA (if I’ve understood correctly).
 
THmom said:
Only ACT English, Math and Writing are listed in these stats. Do you know if that’s only what they look at, similar to USMMA and USNA (if I’ve understood correctly).
Click to expand...
no idea. Those are the stats they release - that writing score is for the essay portion of the ACT, which CGA doesn't even require.
 
Korab said:
This is why the referenced lawsuits fail. College admissions isn't just about stacking number and taking the top however many. It is a more holistic approach with an eye towards building a diverse class. All universities and colleges, including the service academies, need football players and cheerleaders and band members and a hundred other types of people to build a school that kids will want to attend and parents will want to spend their money on. How long are the ivies attractive places to go if they only accept kids with 1600 SAT's? Can you imagine that environment?

At a super small school like CGA, it is even more important that the kids who receive an offer fill a niche or several niches. If they don't fill a niche other than academics, and they are pretty average at academics, it shouldn't be a surprise that they would be on the bubble. And lets face it, a 1350 is pretty average if you are looking to fill a spot in the academics niche at CGA. With CGA's mission, there is the very important aspect of leadership, and suitability to lead. Academic numbers are a very poor predictor of suitability for leadership. There are already way too many Poindexters at CGA, which is why they are trying to interview all applicants.

As to Appdad's previous comments about choosing those who can handle the academics versus pursuing a diverse student body, you might want to look at graduation rates for your year versus graduation rates of modern day classes. It seems like the academy is doing a much better job of picking kids who can handle the academics now. Its also important to note that the class average standardized test scores keep rising year after year after year.



Correction - a 1350 SAT is below average in early action, despite many recruited athletes applying early action.

The most recent Early Action class stats released by CGA are for the Great Class of 2022. Here are the numbers - note that the AVERAGE SAT score of the 189 appointees is 1385.

834 Applicants
189 Appointments
39 CGAS Appointments
Of the 189 appointments to the Class of 2022...
49% AIM Graduates
Average ACT Scores: 32 E 31 M 8 W
Average SAT Scores: 675 ERW 710 M 6 W (from Essay)
Average HS Rank: 13% (includes reported and calculated HSRs)
Average GPA: 3.83 (unweighted GPAs converted to a 4.00 scale)
Average PFE Score: 222
43 U.S. states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico are represented in addition to U.S. citizens living in Ecuador and Jordan
Click to expand...

Lets keep it real. 1350 is above average for these classes. You can split hairs on EA, but admissions has the full context.


I have also gotten a number of private messages with people in the same situation where the SAT scores are in the 1400’s. One kid had a 1480. All had sports, insane GPAs, leadership, etc.
 
Assuming they take the top 300 candidates based on GPA and SATs ... would your son be in the top 300 with his stats?
 
AppDad said:
I have also gotten a number of private messages with people in the same situation where the SAT scores are in the 1400’s. One kid had a 1480. All had sports, insane GPAs, leadership, etc. All are white. All are male.
Click to expand...

And your point is?

Every elite college has amazing candidates who don't get in.

Years ago, my DD's best friend was appointed to USAFA, but got cold feet. However, she also was turned down by her only Plan B school (an elite public Ivy). She had EVERY box checked (valedictorian, Top SATs, City Ambassador, etc.) and yet did not get in.

Why? Because this school simply gets more elite applications than there are spots!

I sincerely believe that by concentrating on the rear view mirror, you are going to be unable to help your DS navigate forward for his re-application.
 
A1Janitor said:
Assuming they take the top 300 candidates based on GPA and SATs ... would your son be in the top 300 with his stats?
Click to expand...
That may be why he's asking the question, to get closer to an answer to that question.

I'm flummoxed by all the tut-tutting here. More information is better than less information, and sunshine is the best disinfectant. One can do two things simultaneously, both look backward and move forward. Indeed, good leaders and organizations do so. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 
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