USCGA EE Major - Level of Difficulty and Degree of Retention

pnwpandas

pnwpandas

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DS received an appointment for USCGA as an EE major (ME was initial choice). Just wondering how many successfully stay in EE (retention/attrition), or at least as an engineering major, and what degree of help they can expect to receive to progress in the major (DS will ask for help if needed and has good study habits, just wondering if the department proactively seeks to retain them). Thanks for replies. DS is currently in AP Calculus AB and non-AP Physics (only level offered at our school).
 
I guess I’ll be interested in responses too. My son’s 1st choice major was EE as that’s where his interests lie. For what it’s worth, he’s taking AP Calc AB and AP Physics 2 this year (took AP Physics 1 as a freshman). If it puts your mind at ease, I know he’s corresponded via email with someone in the department who provided some info which made it seem like the professors were VERY helpful and the EE capstone projects sounded fantastic! Sorry - don’t know all the details as I didn’t read the emails, but based on the information he received, my son feels like EE at the CGA is a great path and he can’t wait to start.
 
I'm a NavArch, so hopefully an EE will chime in, but I'll give my two cents anyway. In terms of level of difficulty, usually you see EE and NavArch thrown around as the two hardest here. It's definitely hard, and EE's put in a good but of time. One of the things that makes the Academy so great is that instructors are ALWAYS willing to help when they aren't teaching a class; you can pretty much just walk into their office at any time for help. In terms of retention, there's always some people who put engineering on their application without any intention of ever following through, so that ruins retention numbers. I would say of the ones who give it a real try, there's always a few that can't hack it, but most make it through. I think at the start of 3/c year, we had 29, and lost 3 or 4 since then (now a firstie).
 
ekb1398 said:
I'm a NavArch, so hopefully an EE will chime in, but I'll give my two cents anyway. In terms of level of difficulty, usually you see EE and NavArch thrown around as the two hardest here. It's definitely hard, and EE's put in a good but of time. One of the things that makes the Academy so great is that instructors are ALWAYS willing to help when they aren't teaching a class; you can pretty much just walk into their office at any time for help. In terms of retention, there's always some people who put engineering on their application without any intention of ever following through, so that ruins retention numbers. I would say of the ones who give it a real try, there's always a few that can't hack it, but most make it through. I think at the start of 3/c year, we had 29, and lost 3 or 4 since then (now a firstie).
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What would be considered the easier majors?
 
So I'm a 3/c EE major, and to be honest I couldn't be happier this semester is coming to a close. It was very challenging academically, and made more difficult by many of my classes being held exclusively online. For one class in particular, it was not uncommon for 6-problem nightly homeworks to be assigned, with each problem taking an hour or longer to finish. That being said, you definitely learn how to finish assignments more efficiently, and how to manage your time.

I'm not sure what the exact retention statistics are. I know we lost one person last semester and may lose one or two more at the conclusion of this one.

Everyone has the capacity to succeed in EE if they want to do it and are willing to put in the time. If they put the major down just to get into the Academy, they probably won't last long. If they feel more passion towards a different branch of engineering, it's better to switch sooner rather than later, I think.

EE tends to be a bit tighter knit than other majors from what I've seen. We are a relatively small group and can all bond over our shared "suffering." I've had friends stay up into the late hours to help me finish assignments, and I've done the same for other people. I've gotten help from professors late at night as well. The support system is certainly there.
 
pnwpandas said:
DS received an appointment for USCGA as an EE major (ME was initial choice). Just wondering how many successfully stay in EE (retention/attrition), or at least as an engineering major, and what degree of help they can expect to receive to progress in the major (DS will ask for help if needed and has good study habits, just wondering if the department proactively seeks to retain them). Thanks for replies. DS is currently in AP Calculus AB and non-AP Physics (only level offered at our school).
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Don't know about retention rates but my DD was an engineering (NavArch) student and raved about the support she got this year--both from the professors and from upperclassmen in her company. She was a college reapplicant and said while her school last year (a top-ten engineering school) had freshman courses designed to weed students out, the focus at CGA is keeping students in the engineering program and ensuring they are successful.
 
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Bash On said:
Don't know about retention rates but my DD was an engineering (NavArch) student and raved about the support she got this year--both from the professors and from upperclassmen in her company. She was a college reapplicant and said while her school last year (a top-ten engineering school) had freshman courses designed to weed students out, the focus at CGA is keeping students in the engineering program and ensuring they are successful.
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Thanks for that information. It's what I had hoped to hear!
 
BaseballGuy said:
A little off topic, but how hard is the cyber major comparatively?
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EEs and Cybers take a lot of courses together 3/c year. The main cyber class I've taken this year has been my worst class grade wise, but it doesn't come close to my EE exclusive class this semester in terms of course load, so take that as you will.

I can say my friends in cyber probably have a bit less homework overall than EEs (at least this semester), but the Cyber department is a bit chaotic at the moment. Everything is constantly changing due to it being a very new major.
sanman said:
I am not convinced there is such a thing as an easy major. Any subject that you have an aptitude for will be easier than one you don’t have an aptitude for.
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That is very true. I would wouldn't enjoy management or gov and thus wouldn't do as well in them, but they still have the reputation as the "easiest" majors at the Academy.
 
EE is an absolute grind with few moments to take your breath. The classes are usually pretty tough, but the instructors are always willing to meet with you. I personally don't learn much from my teachers in a majority of my classes. This is largely a symptom of covid since teachers are unable to tailor their learning to a virtual environment. That doesn't mean I don't immensely value the teachers, it's just that I cannot learn from a screen. For my core EE classes this year, I would say 90% of what I learned was from just reading the textbook and trying the homework problems, with the other 10% from lecture. You need to be motivated in order to pass your classes because the responsibility of learning the material is mostly on you.

EE is just hard, but there are some great people in the major and at the end of the day, we have some amazing opportunities. If you want it, go for it. If you're being pushed into EE by someone else, rethink your major choice, there's plenty of other great majors available.
 
Let me answer your question about an EE major with a favorite Moneyball quote:

Chris Pratt: Is switching from playing catcher my whole life to playing first base hard?
Coach Washington: It's incredibly hard.
Brad Pitt: But hey, what worth doing isn't hard! Here is your contract, see you at spring training.

EE is one of the more demanding majors, but the majority stick with it and graduate. They would not have offered your son an appointment in EE if they were not confident they could get him through based on his application information. Trust the process. As for retention/attrition what I have seen is some of the Engineering majors will switch to ORCA as they progress if they hit a wall. ORCA is a math and computer programing major and serves as an unofficial fall back option for Engineering majors that get stuck, but want to stay with STEM degrees. As others have said, the cadets who choose EE, really like it, but if it is chosen solely to get admitted, that is a different matter. FYI - each year or so there is a supper smart dual major in EE and ORCA. Also, I think each major has an unofficial cap on cadets, so you can't change majors easily (someone chime in if I am mistaken). I do think if you stay with another engineering major or ORCA it can be done, but going to a non-STEM major may be more limited, mainly because the fleet needs STEM majors and the academy supports the needs of the fleet (a good thing to remember).

As for support, there is incredible access to Professors, both military detailed instructors and full time PhD staff. Contacting a professor on a weekend and spending an hour going over a computer coding problem for example is not uncommon. In fact, the "secret sauce" at the academy is the small interactions with professors, military, and staff who work at the academy, and are available 24/7 to the cadets for mentorship. There are also peer tutors for most of the 4/c classes. Statics and Calculus are the big first year hurdles academically and a high school AP Physics and AP Calc AB will help, but many cadets with no high school AP classes do just fine in EE as well. Since all graduates are working for the USCG, the academy staff is committed to getting each Cadet as trained up as possible before being assigned to the fleet where they may one day depend on him/her to save there life on an mission. While that sounds like a recruiting line from a brochure, we have found it to be true. The academy is so small, everyone knows everyone and support is there. That being said, there will always be a Professor that you child will not click with, but it is a rarity from what we have seen.

My best advice is as soon as Swab summer ends, remind your kid that it now time for academics. Swab summer puts them in military mode and if they forget about school the first few weeks, they will get behind academically and completely overwhelmed between their new roommate, military obligations, schoolwork, home sickness, sports requirements, and all the "fun" duties that go with 4/c year on the bottom of the hierarchy. Not to mention, adding to first week of school stress are some text books will inevitably be on backorder, their laptop will crash repeatedly, etc. and they are so used to being marched around all summer, they don't actually know how to find each building on their own for a few days. It is incredibly hard transitioning from Swab summer where you are getting yelled at, in a indoctrination survival mode, and exhausted, to actively paying attention in class, taking notes, and realizing it is ok to speak or ask a question and that professors are not the same as summer cadre, but there to teach. Also, while kids may be used to high school teachers extending deadlines, and offering extra credit, this is college, expectations are high. The quicker each incoming cadet adjusts to the academic year immediately after swab summer the more successful they are. As a parent, during CAP week (the week between swab summer and before classes start when they do administrative stuff) tell them Swab summer is over, and get into academic mode, they will just "yes" you, but keep telling them, it will help.

Finally, the Academy has found that weak math skills is the number one challenge for freshman (4/c), so much so, that they have summer math classes during SWAB summer so high school math skills don't fade over the summer. During Swab summer cadets are given a math placement test, then they meet with an advisor to individually discuss after reviewing their test results and HS or college transcript where they should be placed. Encourage them to be candid with the advisor if they have concerns, as to be academically successful, the right placement matters.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully you will see there is tremendous opportunity in the EE major and abundant support, but your cadet has to approach the academy with the right mindset an adjust as needed as he/she enters different phases and progresses to graduation.

Good luck.
 
A couple points of clarification from @Haveaniceday . First, what they said about ORCA is true - some EE's make the switch when they can't swing it in the EE major, but it's also worth noting that EE is generally expected to grow a good bit, because a lot of people don't really stand what ORCA is and are therefore hesitant to apply for it, but then switch as they learn more. A lot of people think ORCA is the sweet spot - an in demand, technical major, but without lab reports like engineers or papers like government majors.

Secondly, as far as changing majors. It's not terribly difficult early on, but it does get hard eventually. It's never a guarantee, but I've never seen it denied personally. There's talk of making it harder to do by creating a "school of engineering" and a school of everything else (whatever they'd call that) and only admitting students to one, like is common in other schools. I heard of it as part of a group I was involved in last year, but I'm unsure if it's still an idea or not, so take it with a huge grain of salt. Anyways, what was said is partially true - there is a cap on majors, but it isn't terribly hard to change either.

Lastly, summer cadre are also there to teach, it's just in a different way. What you said rings very true, but I think it's important for incoming Swabs reading this to know that Cadre are there to teach and that although you'll be unfamiliar with their teaching method most likely, they do want you to succeed.

All in all, above post is very good and accurate advice.
 
ekb1398 said:
A couple points of clarification from @Haveaniceday . First, what they said about ORCA is true - some EE's make the switch when they can't swing it in the EE major, but it's also worth noting that EE is generally expected to grow a good bit, because a lot of people don't really stand what ORCA is and are therefore hesitant to apply for it, but then switch as they learn more. A lot of people think ORCA is the sweet spot - an in demand, technical major, but without lab reports like engineers or papers like government majors.

Secondly, as far as changing majors. It's not terribly difficult early on, but it does get hard eventually. It's never a guarantee, but I've never seen it denied personally. There's talk of making it harder to do by creating a "school of engineering" and a school of everything else (whatever they'd call that) and only admitting students to one, like is common in other schools. I heard of it as part of a group I was involved in last year, but I'm unsure if it's still an idea or not, so take it with a huge grain of salt. Anyways, what was said is partially true - there is a cap on majors, but it isn't terribly hard to change either.

Lastly, summer cadre are also there to teach, it's just in a different way. What you said rings very true, but I think it's important for incoming Swabs reading this to know that Cadre are there to teach and that although you'll be unfamiliar with their teaching method most likely, they do want you to succeed.

All in all, above post is very good and accurate advice.
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Thank you for those updates and corrections, very helpful. I very much appreciate the accurate up to date information.

Good luck in the fleet.
 
EE is similar to most engineering majors for the first two years. Circuits and electromagnetic theory is the core of what makes EE different. Solving circuits requires insight beyond brute force math. If you lack the insight then solving circuits can be very difficult.

Due to ABET certification, a BS is EE is pretty similar at any accredited school. The combination of circuits, transforms, discrete mathematics, and statistical communications theory can be daunting. However, a BS EE can take you to a variety of professional goals.

EE was hard in the 80s and will still be hard today. If you really love the topic you can get through it. If you have a gift with circuit analysis it can actually be fun. For most people it is cool, but difficult.
 
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