USMA Head coach change??

[scoutpilot]

The argument has been made many times on this forum that recruited IC athletes bring something to the military in addition/other than just good GPAs and SAT/ACT scores. If you are correct in your opinion then the USMA may soon find a resurgence of IC athletes that would not have chosen the USMA if they were going to be expected to fight a war. Let's hope the US doesn't need them to lead men into combat during their 5 years of obligatory military service.

What a disgusting thing to say. Thousands of young people have gone to an academy for thousands of reasons. My entire class entered under no prospect of war. We all went for our own reasons, and more than a few of us had no true burning desire to go fight a war, myself included. Almost ten years and give deployments later, here I am.

To suggest that someone would shirk his duty because he went to USMA or anywhere else because of the football opportunity is disgusting. It's prejudiced and sad. Why don't you say the same about a kid who goes there to play tennis? Or goes because he's smart but poor? Or goes because his grandfather did? Please, tell me the RIGHT reason to go and I'll show you a thousand graduates who went for the "wrong reason" (like, say, playing D1 football) who did their duties like true patriots when called upon.

Until those kids stop doing their duty when asked, your comments are way out of line.

I hope we never need your kid to lead men in combat because I bet he/she wouldn't have joined without all the privileges of a commission. (Sounds pretty stupid to criticize someone's performance of their duty before they attempt it, huh?)

 

[Hurricane12]

Don't think so. What brings someone to a SA, what keeps them there, and their motivation upon graduation are three separate entities. A disproportionally high percentage of USNA IC athletes opt for SEALS, EOD, USMC, and Aviation. The football team and USMC especially. I doubt if this was their mindset when they originally signed on the dotted line.

The poster who brought up the weight differential actually may be on to something. While the option somewhat negates the advantages of big linemen, USNA is in fact bigger. They all arrived under the limit, even those from NAPS. While at USNA, somehow they are given the opportunity to get bigger than their WP counterparts. Schedule? Summer training? Better weight focused coaching? I have no idea. Then, of course, they have to get back down to standards by graduation. I understand this is even a bigger problem for the winter sports such as wrestling.

I was going to say almost exactly this. The Marine Corps especially seems to really want athletes.

 

[aglages]

Of all the top athletes that are interested in going to an SA, less are going to choose to go to the one that is going to send them to a combat zone after graduation. I think once we wind down overseas you may see USMA resurge.

Let's hope the US doesn't need them to lead men into combat during their 5 years of obligatory military service.

My entire class entered under no prospect of war. We all went for our own reasons, and more than a few of us had no true burning desire to go fight a war, myself included.

I would think most sane people have no true burning desire to go fight a war. Even you. That said, to suggest that in the past IC athletes have not chosen the USMA because they might have to fight, and now will do so in increasing numbers because the wars are winding down is not me questioning the "right" reason to attend but instead was a sarcastic comment on whether that opinion is accurate. I would assume any entering cadet into the USMA would appreciate that just because there is not a shooting war today doesn't mean there won't be one when they graduate.

BTW - stay off my kid and I'll stay off your wife/girlfriend.

 

[scoutpilot]

Let's hope the US doesn't need them to lead men into combat during their 5 years of obligatory military service.

BTW - stay off my kid and I'll stay off your wife/girlfriend.

You can say whatever you feel like making up about my wife.

Stay off everyone else's kid and I'll stay off yours. You're talking above your pay grade.

 

[aglages]

Stay off everyone else's kid..

Seriously? Everyone else's kid? Exaggerate much?

You're talking above your pay grade.

My former military pay grade. And your milking your questionable military experience too much. You are not the only veteran here and it doesn't give you license to attack anyone you choose with impunity. Perhaps you should end the personal attacks?

 

[scoutpilot]

Seriously? Everyone else's kid? Exaggerate much?

My former military pay grade. And your milking your questionable military experience too much. You are not the only veteran here and it doesn't give you license to attack anyone you choose with impunity. Perhaps you should end the personal attacks?

Questionable. LOL. Ok, hero. You win. You're smart enough to sit at your keyboard and decide which kid went to an Academy with the right motivations and how he/she will perform in combat. Thanks for the insight.

Which war(s) did you serve in? I don't recall.

You're right. My experience doesn't give me license to "attack anyone with impunity." It does give me the knowledge to call you out for disrespectful remarks about the abilities of future cadets when they serve their nation.

 

[Jcleppe]

Seriously? Everyone else's kid? Exaggerate much?

My former military pay grade. And your milking your questionable military experience too much. You are not the only veteran here and it doesn't give you license to attack anyone you choose with impunity. Perhaps you should end the personal attacks?

Ths certainly got ugly fast.

 

[Aglahad]

Ths certainly got ugly fast.

Football discussions in America (seemingly more so D1AA SA football) are serious business.

 

[aglages]

Questionable.

Yep.. questionable.

You win.

Thanks. Just doing my part to stand up to the forum bully.

You're smart enough to sit at your keyboard and decide which kid went to an Academy with the right motivations and how he/she will perform in combat

Nope....I'm not smart (or insightful) enough and I clearly stated that in post #23 in this thread. In addition to using exaggeration liberally it would seem that you have a need to interpret posts to suit your opinion.

Which war(s) did you serve in? I don't recall.

Did you ask? Is it possible that there could be be veterans on this forum of wars other than the one you flew over? Never mind hero....I know the answers to those questions.

You're right. My experience doesn't give me license to "attack anyone with impunity."

Good... then as I suggested earlier perhaps you should end the personal attacks.

It does give me the knowledge to call you out for disrespectful remarks about the abilities of future cadets when they serve their nation.

Which future cadets am I disrespecting? The top athletes that currently are not interested in attending (and are not enrolled) USMA because they may go a combat zone after graduation, or the top athletes that will now attend because the wars are winding down but would not have if they thought they would be sent to a combat zone after graduation?

 

[scoutpilot]

Old wannabes say the darnedest things.

So the answer to my question is "no war but I don't have the balls to admit it now that I got called on the carpet about it." Typical.

At least be man enough to own up to your remarks. "Top athletes" have never gone to the SAs. But good athletes do, and to say that better athletes who, for any reason, haven't been snared by USMA recruiting wouldn't perform in combat is a farce.

 

[bruno]

All right folks- lets keep this a bit less personal.

There is a long line of Army football players who have been great soldiers when called upon- Bill Carpenter and Pete Dawkins in the 50's, and Ray Odierno from the 70s - and today- how about these two gentlemen: https://www.belvoir.army.mil/Command/gadson.asp
or http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...r-army-qb-chase-prasnicki-dies-in-afghanistan

Football players go to USMA for all kinds of reasons- and at the end of their time at USMA they serve- some with distinction, some with ordinary careers, some for 5 years and leave. Their reasons for attending are as valid as the myriad of reasons that draw other Cadets there and it's not worthy of anyone on here to imply otherwise.

I don't know why Army can't field a winning program relative to Navy and AF- it does get to be a serious drag watching, and the longer it goes on, the more demoralizing it becomes for both the team and the Corps, so I frankly hope that at some point soon they settle on a coach who is both in tune with the goals and dynamics of USMA and can coach winning football teams.

 

[buff81]

Permission given to interview Jeff Monken:

http://savannahnow.com/sports/2013-...ves-army-permission-speak-monken#.UrKV5CgZxbw

 

[scoutpilot]

http://wp.me/s45OMH-500

 

[buff81]

Interesting that Monken was one of the finalists for the Army job when they hired Ellerson.
Wonder how different things would be if they had selected Monken then rather than 5 long years later.

 

[Cotton&Alligators]

The types of players this new coach could bring in at Georgia Southern will be very different than West Point. I wish West Point all the best.

 

[scoutpilot]

The types of players this new coach could bring in at Georgia Southern will be very different than West Point. I wish West Point all the best.

Which can be said about every school other than the service academies.

 

[scoutpilot]

The types of players this new coach could bring in at Georgia Southern will be very different than West Point. I wish West Point all the best.

Some other guy named Paul Johnson used to coach at Georgia Southern. I hear he did ok with Academy talent.

 

[Cotton&Alligators]

I am fully aware of what PJ did at Annapolis. His tenure was not without controversy over the type of person he brought in to play football.

 

[MemberLG]

I am fully aware of what PJ did at Annapolis. His tenure was not without controversy over the type of person he brought in to play football.

So did PJ do anything illegal or get sanctioned for NCAA violations? Perhaps, he didn't get caught.

What do folks expect from SA coaches - win and assist with development of cadets/midshipmen as future military officers. There were different discussions on this forum, but the facts presented during those discussions were no significant difference in graduation rate between recruited athletes and non recruited athletes at Navy.

I don't care if West Point goes Div II or III as I believe playing at that level still allows cadets to compete and develop themselves. However, most grads will disagree with me.

 

[scoutpilot]

So did PJ do anything illegal or get sanctioned for NCAA violations? Perhaps, he didn't get caught.

What do folks expect from SA coaches - win and assist with development of cadets/midshipmen as future military officers. There were different discussions on this forum, but the facts presented during those discussions were no significant difference in graduation rate between recruited athletes and non recruited athletes at Navy.

I don't care if West Point goes Div II or III as I believe playing at that level still allows cadets to compete and develop themselves. However, most grads will disagree with me.

Vociferously, as does the administration and the DoD