USMA or Notre Dame ROTC?

My co-worker and good friend is a big muckety muck in the ND alumni association. His advice to my DS (who for a while was considering ND) was to show them love - lots of of love. And early. Ask for a campus visit asap and meet with their admissions people. Getting into ND (especially if you are non-legacy) is not going to be a slam dunk by any means, even with SA-equivalent credentials. I have a great deal of respect for ND alumni - they love their Irish and are rightfully proud.
 
jebdad said:
Another consideration: USMA has begun a shift to branch more and more if its grads to combat arms. There is a desire by those who make these type of decisions to continue to increase the percentage of USMA grads branching combat arms. So, if that is the case, and you desire to branch outside of combat arms, you may be better off doing ROTC.
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jl123 said:
Really good point. Including Branch Detail, 81% of the USMA class is branching combat arms.
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While it's true that WP branched 81% to combat arms, ROTC still branched 426 more cadets to combat arms then WP, that is not including the branch details for ROTC. For example, ROTC branched over three times the number of MI, a majority of those will branch detail to a combat arm Other branches that offer details are higher in numbers in ROTC as well adding even more to combat arms. Add in these branch details and that number will go even higher. While the percentage is higher for WP it's important to consider that ROTC commissions over 3 times the number of Active Duty officers into the Army then does WP, so the over all percentage may be lower but the total numbers are higher, that also means combat arm branches are a bit more competitive in ROTC.

The main point is that there are plenty of opportunities in ROTC for combat arms, but there is also, as quoted above, a better chance for logistic and support branches as well.

EvevatingCondor,

This decision will in the end be your own, after looking at both schools carefully. One thing you might think about is how you see yourself when at school. Are you the type that wants to branch out into service outside of campus, be involved in community affairs while at school, be involved in school activities outside of the umbrella of ROTC. On the flip side do you want to be immersed in the military lifestyle, focus on opportunities that are tied more toward the Army, are looking for a more structured environment. These are just a couple things to look at while you wait to see how things progress with both schools.
 
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Chevy or Mopar? Mets or Yankees? Islanders or Rangers? Cessna or Beechcraft? Boeing or Airbus?
Visit both. Do research as you are. Ask questions.
Part of me wishes I had taken the offer from West Point or applied once I enlisted. But my life worked out as it did due to the "poor" decisions I made. In the words of the famous philosopher and test pilot Buckaroo Banzai, "No matter where you go, there you are."
 
My point in quoting the 81% statistic is that if someone is not comfortable with a combat arms assignment, USMA is probably not the way to go.

In the past there were ample non combat arms assignments for those wishing to choose that path; by the end of yearling year a cadet could use class rank to pretty accurately predict which non CA branch they would serve in upon graduation. Not so today with involuntary branch detail.

Most cadets are comfortable with combat arms assignments - the increase in infantry and other CA training over the last several years has better prepared them than in past decades.
 
jl123 said:
My point in quoting the 81% statistic is that if someone is not comfortable with a combat arms assignment, USMA is probably not the way to go.
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I agree completely, if a future cadet desires a branch in Logistics or Support then ROTC may be a better option. It is also important for cadets to remember that those support branches that are feeders for branch details have been detailing cadets in ROTC for a long time, and the chances are still there that they may end up in a branch detail even with ROTC.
 
I'm still miffed that they never did the sequel promised in those end credits.
 
Elevatingcondor. Here’s my subjective opinion. If you play football and plan to be in the football team, go to Notre Dame. If you want to go to top grad school with the same grade and same work experience go to West Point. Top grad schools will give bonus points to SA grads and will give bonus points to ROTC grads but less than SA grads because they know the while in school commitment to time and military training is different, full time vs part time. If you want to have brand awareness of your degree nationally and internationally go to West Point. Notre Dame degree do as well as WP degree regionally but not nationally and even less internationally. Both great schools and a very different college experience. WP is full time military and full time college. Notre Dame full time college and part time military. That’s what ROTC is. But first you need to be accepted to both Notre Dame and West Point to even have a dilemma. No point and waste of time otherwise. Many many people will get AROTC Scholarship, perhaps 2,000 nationally and some more at the unit levels. Only 1,300 get an Appointment to West Point and 3,000 are accepted to Notre Dame freshman class. 20% acceptance rate to Notre Dame, 9% West Point. Academic and Nomination qualifications are the function of your district competitiveness for West Point. Notre Dame Academically competes with top 20 schools nationally. In practice so does West Point but would rank even higher in the level of prestige, respect, and desire by employers and by people’s opinion in general. In overall prestige and admiration, West Point wins, unless you live with football and most of your employers do as well! Get the Appointment and Acceptance first before you spend anymore time on this.
 
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CrewDad said:
Elevatingcondor. Here’s my subjective opinion. If you play football and plan to be in the football team, go to Notre Dame. If you want to go to top grad school with the same grade and same work experience go to West Point. Top grad schools will give bonus points to SA grads and will give bonus points to ROTC grads but less than SA grads because they know the while in school commitment to time and military training is different, full time vs part time. If you want to have brand awareness of your degree nationally and internationally go to West Point. Notre Dame degree do as well as WP degree regionally but not nationally and even less internationally. Both great schools and a very different college experience. WP is full time military and full time college. Notre Dame full time college and part time military. That’s what ROTC is. But first you need to be accepted to both Notre Dame and West Point to even have a dilemma. No point and waste of time otherwise. Many many people will get AROTC Scholarship, perhaps 2,000 nationally and some more at the unit levels. Only 1,300 get an Appointment to West Point and 3,000 are accepted to Notre Dame freshman class. 20% acceptance rate to Notre Dame, 9% West Point. Academic and Nomination qualifications are the function of your district competitiveness for West Point. Notre Dame Academically competes with top 20 schools nationally. In practice so does West Point but would rank even higher in the level of prestige, respect, and desire by employers and by people’s opinion in general. In overall prestige and admiration, West Point wins, unless you live with football and most of your employers do as well! Get the Appointment and Acceptance first before you spend anymore time on this.
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Thanks, just thinking
 
I'm a Notre Dame AROTC grad (did my AD time and then went back to ND for law school), and my father was a WP grad (and career Air Force), so I think I have some insight into this question. One disclosure, though -- I'm middle-aged, and my dad would be 89 if he were still alive. This said, my dad believed that an ROTC scholarship was a "better deal" than SA, although this was in an era when all ROTC scholarships were full, which isn't so anymore. But you wrote that you have been offered an ROTC scholarship to ND, so I assume that's a full scholarship. If so, that will likely help your admission to ND, but I digress.
I have a couple of other thoughts. If you are a serious, academically-minded Catholic, it's tough to beat ND. In my admittedly biased opinion, no Catholic university balances academic prestige and serious Catholicism nearly as well as ND. On the other hand, if you are thinking seriously about a military career, I'd lean WP. While ND is highly respected among the officer corps, the ROTC numbers overall at ND are way down from what they were in my day (mid-80s), which makes me a little suspicious -- generally speaking -- that ROTC still holds the same degree of stature at ND that it used to in Fr. Hesburgh's day. This may also have something to do with what many ND alumni would observe about ND over time, that it has become less of a school for upwardly striving middle-class Catholics (who were great, natural ROTC candidates) and more of an academically elite school for wealthy Catholics (who aren't particularly interested in military service).
Finally, in the long run you can't go wrong with either school in terms of career options and opening doors.
 
franknd said:
I'm a Notre Dame AROTC grad (did my AD time and then went back to ND for law school), and my father was a WP grad (and career Air Force), so I think I have some insight into this question. One disclosure, though -- I'm middle-aged, and my dad would be 89 if he were still alive. This said, my dad believed that an ROTC scholarship was a "better deal" than SA, although this was in an era when all ROTC scholarships were full, which isn't so anymore. But you wrote that you have been offered an ROTC scholarship to ND, so I assume that's a full scholarship. If so, that will likely help your admission to ND, but I digress.
I have a couple of other thoughts. If you are a serious, academically-minded Catholic, it's tough to beat ND. In my admittedly biased opinion, no Catholic university balances academic prestige and serious Catholicism nearly as well as ND. On the other hand, if you are thinking seriously about a military career, I'd lean WP. While ND is highly respected among the officer corps, the ROTC numbers overall at ND are way down from what they were in my day (mid-80s), which makes me a little suspicious -- generally speaking -- that ROTC still holds the same degree of stature at ND that it used to in Fr. Hesburgh's day. This may also have something to do with what many ND alumni would observe about ND over time, that it has become less of a school for upwardly striving middle-class Catholics (who were great, natural ROTC candidates) and more of an academically elite school for wealthy Catholics (who aren't particularly interested in military service).
Finally, in the long run you can't go wrong with either school in terms of career options and opening doors.
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Thanks. It is a full (tuition) scholarship, and I’m starting to lean towards ND. I hear back from them this week/next week, and should hear from USMA within the next month or two. I kind of need to look into ways to fund room and board at ND, since ROTC Scholarship doesn’t cover that, but chances are that’s where I’ll end up (again, if I get in)
 
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