USMMA - Concerns

Beyond is honestly correct, at KP there is a whole lot of education about ships, nautical science, and handling, etc but almost zero actual leadership and other skills which one would need to be successful on active duty.
One would think adequate leadership training would be rolled into the other aspects of education at USMMA. If that is not the case, it could be overcome with a re-focus and reset of course towards more leadership/officer-oriented training. With threats on the seas today, leadership training is a must!
 
This is exactly where these threads end up. Pretty soon EngrMarine is going to comment that SUNY is much safer, and that the training vessels are a better environment, and, by the way, the Empire State needs to be replaced, so please give the school half a billion to do so. But, moving on to the comments. I am only outside looking in, and I disagree with the comment that there is no leadership taught. Of all the SA's, I believe USMMA is the only one which requires all 1/c to hold positions. not that that in itself is leadership, but it does provide an outward indication of such. Now, are there leadership issues, yes. Does that extend to the midshipman, yes. If changes that are being talked about, including additional regimental requirements, structure, and oversight do get instituted, a step forward with regards to the current leadership training will have been taken. This is not to say that there is none, however. Frankly, most everything in the regimental system is leadership training. leadership is not learned in a classroom. It is learned by experiencing it, both as a leader, and as a follower. Both as being the person whom the leader relies on to get the job done, and as the leader relying on others to get the job done. Leadership is learning through both good and bad leadership experiences.

The SASH issue--is a made up/blown out of proportion issue. Is one instance a problem-yes. But, in order to address a problem, data of the underlying issue must be seen and steps taken to address the problem. There is a lot of talk about the problem at sea--but, there is not a reported problem at sea. The numbers of complaints, claims, law suits, etc., simply do not support the argument that sash is prevalent at sea. Does it happen, unfortunately yes. Is going to sea similar to serving on a pirate ship where the midshipmen/cadets are considered wenches for use by the crew? no. By factual data there have been only single digit complaints of such. Anonymous surveys of the students grouped together harassment and assault, which includes any language or situation which makes you uncomfortable, equal to assault. The means of the survey process discredits the results of the survey. In effect, it uses a global percentage of comments starting with the low threshold of someone was uncomfortable (which was undefined nor was the situation of uncomfort limited--arguably uncomfortable could be I was made to do pushups because of my gender) all the way through to an assault, to conclude that the total percentage equals assault. The survey on which MARAD based the stand down is complete with flawed reasoning, but, it did do what it was intended to do, which was to place pressure on congress to spend 2 billion on marad training vessels for the state schools. Follow the money, and you will see that the issue is a smokescreen. For example, Rodriguez was a strong proponent of keeping USMMA midshipmen off the commercial vessels--what did he do, he took a job at A&M Galveston where his responsibility includes placing cadets on ships. Amazingly, he apparently does not believe A&M cadets face the same hazards as he believed the midshipmen faced. The argument goes to say that the midshipmen learn to be harassers and assaulters while at sea and then bring back this culture to the campus. In other words, the merchant mariners at sea are the problem. Amazingly, the state school cadets do not receive the same training in being a pervert while at sea that usmma midshipmen apparently do.
Moving to the Academy administration.There is no doubt that new leadership is likely needed. But, I do not think you can make the leap that the school is closing or in such disrepair that people should not consider attending. The AAF will always complain about a superintendant who is not a graduate.
why would anyone go to USMMA? because it is not going to close, or lose accreditation. Why does the AAF scream and holler--because they are an alumni group, and that is what alumni groups do. lol. If you study the issues, you very clearly see a pattern of use of the school by MARAD in the last administration to achieve some ill conceived goals--such as building suny a new ship.
 
This is exactly where these threads end up. Pretty soon EngrMarine is going to comment that SUNY is much safer, and that the training vessels are a better environment, and, by the way, the Empire State needs to be replaced, so please give the school half a billion to do so. But, moving on to the comments. I am only outside looking in, and I disagree with the comment that there is no leadership taught. Of all the SA's, I believe USMMA is the only one which requires all 1/c to hold positions. not that that in itself is leadership, but it does provide an outward indication of such. Now, are there leadership issues, yes. Does that extend to the midshipman, yes. If changes that are being talked about, including additional regimental requirements, structure, and oversight do get instituted, a step forward with regards to the current leadership training will have been taken. This is not to say that there is none, however. Frankly, most everything in the regimental system is leadership training. leadership is not learned in a classroom. It is learned by experiencing it, both as a leader, and as a follower. Both as being the person whom the leader relies on to get the job done, and as the leader relying on others to get the job done. Leadership is learning through both good and bad leadership experiences.

The SASH issue--is a made up/blown out of proportion issue. Is one instance a problem-yes. But, in order to address a problem, data of the underlying issue must be seen and steps taken to address the problem. There is a lot of talk about the problem at sea--but, there is not a reported problem at sea. The numbers of complaints, claims, law suits, etc., simply do not support the argument that sash is prevalent at sea. Does it happen, unfortunately yes. Is going to sea similar to serving on a pirate ship where the midshipmen/cadets are considered wenches for use by the crew? no. By factual data there have been only single digit complaints of such. Anonymous surveys of the students grouped together harassment and assault, which includes any language or situation which makes you uncomfortable, equal to assault. The means of the survey process discredits the results of the survey. In effect, it uses a global percentage of comments starting with the low threshold of someone was uncomfortable (which was undefined nor was the situation of uncomfort limited--arguably uncomfortable could be I was made to do pushups because of my gender) all the way through to an assault, to conclude that the total percentage equals assault. The survey on which MARAD based the stand down is complete with flawed reasoning, but, it did do what it was intended to do, which was to place pressure on congress to spend 2 billion on marad training vessels for the state schools. Follow the money, and you will see that the issue is a smokescreen. For example, Rodriguez was a strong proponent of keeping USMMA midshipmen off the commercial vessels--what did he do, he took a job at A&M Galveston where his responsibility includes placing cadets on ships. Amazingly, he apparently does not believe A&M cadets face the same hazards as he believed the midshipmen faced. The argument goes to say that the midshipmen learn to be harassers and assaulters while at sea and then bring back this culture to the campus. In other words, the merchant mariners at sea are the problem. Amazingly, the state school cadets do not receive the same training in being a pervert while at sea that usmma midshipmen apparently do.
Moving to the Academy administration.There is no doubt that new leadership is likely needed. But, I do not think you can make the leap that the school is closing or in such disrepair that people should not consider attending. The AAF will always complain about a superintendant who is not a graduate.
why would anyone go to USMMA? because it is not going to close, or lose accreditation. Why does the AAF scream and holler--because they are an alumni group, and that is what alumni groups do. lol. If you study the issues, you very clearly see a pattern of use of the school by MARAD in the last administration to achieve some ill conceived goals--such as building suny a new ship.
 
This is not about SUNY or MASS or Maine needing a ship. This is about a school that is foundering because of lack of leadership. Of course the curriculum is geared towards leadership development. If it weren't that would be a bigger issue. I was not suggesting one system of training is better than another. They are different. What i was suggesting is there are issues at the school right now. Those issues cast a shadow over the institution. To not recognize that is to be an ostrich. On the SASH topic, that is an issue the administration is dealing with. Why would a parent sent their child to a school where the current administration says its a major issue. I personally don't believe its a problem created by sea year. But i don't have the same facts as the people making the decision. What i can say is there is a major difference between the regimented environment in any SMA or Kings Point and the merchant fleet. I think we can all agree on that. I would suggest sea year or going to sea on a training ship transforms the kids that go through either process. That is also indisputable. I would suggest many prospective parents are reading about the controversy at KP in the Washington Post or Newsday and having the same reaction I had with my daughter. I'll pass. And by the way, she didn't go to any SMA she is going to study engineering elsewhere. So let not make this argument about SUNY vs KP. The enemy is within your sights. Just look in the mirror.
 
uhm, ok. 4 posts. 3 geared toward negative KP and 1 to positive suny. May I respectfully suggest that you review the msche report, the underlying data for the surveys conducted by the school and results thereon, the credibility of the complainants quoted by the media, the timing of the media reports with regards the MARAD agenda items, the legislation pursued by MARAD and the continuing focus on training ships for the SMA's. But, the one thing you are correct about, the enemy is in our sights, and his name is Chip.
 
uhm, ok. 4 posts. 3 geared toward negative KP and 1 to positive suny. May I respectfully suggest that you review the msche report, the underlying data for the surveys conducted by the school and results thereon, the credibility of the complainants quoted by the media, the timing of the media reports with regards the MARAD agenda items, the legislation pursued by MARAD and the continuing focus on training ships for the SMA's. But, the one thing you are correct about, the enemy is in our sights, and his name is Chip.
SUNY is a good school...it was my DS's backup if he didn't get into KP. Luckily for him, he received his appointment and loves it at USMMA. Best decision he could have made.
 
SUNY is a good school...it was my DS's backup if he didn't get into KP. Luckily for him, he received his appointment and loves it at USMMA. Best decision he could have made.
Golfindad

You are really drawing the wrong conclusions. I am a supporter of KP. I wanted my daughter to attend USMMA. I have nothing but the best intentions for your school. I think Sea Year is essential to the training at KP. I think the lack of consistency with SMA cadets continuing to take berths as KP MIds were sidelined was hypocritical. I agree on your target for the enemy. But with all that and 15 years in the Maritime industry and the USNR, I still can't bring myself to lobby my daughter for KP. As i said my daughter chose to look outside of the industry. Even if you think i am biased ( and on some things i may be and on others i am certainly not), nothing will change the facts. I don't think statistics tell the whole story. I don't even think statistics tell half the story. But unfortunately others do and college kids are extra sensitive to social media and blogs. This will be my last post since i have no desire to debate a topic that I am only responding to as a prospective parent of a mid, not as a member of the industry who may have graduated from a different school.
 
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