USNA or MIT

Which school?

  • USNA

  • MIT AFROTC

Results are only viewable after voting.
My DS was faced with a similar choice. His MIT interviewer, himself a MIT graduate, offered the following insight: MIT is a great school for a graduate degree, but risky for undergrads. According to the MIT interviewer's personal experience, his undergrad GPA took a few hits at MIT and as a result his application was denied for graduate school at MIT. If he had it it to do over again, he would wait for graduate school to attend MIT. My DS found his candor to be refreshing and counter-intuitive. Bottom-line: If you attend the USNA and do well academically, it is highly likely you will end up at MIT at some point in your Navy career. And you will have done both. If you select MIT, you will never go to USNA.
 
mattcat said:
Hello,

Since decision day is right around the corner, I am seeking advice for a very important decision. I am seeking input from experienced people as to which school would be better for me: USNA or AFROTC at MIT. Let me start by describing my situation, career goals, and potential options.

I have always wanted to serve my country and ever since 7th grade I have wanted to attend USNA. Coming into high school, I worked tirelessly towards achieving this goal. I received an LOA in September and an appointment in February. I also applied early action to MIT. I was accepted. To give you background, however, MIT was the only civilian school I applied to (I figured with the engineering reputation of MIT, it is the only school that would make me second guess going to USNA). The other schools were all of the service academies. I was accepted to all but I narrowed it down to USNA, USAFA, and MIT, with preference towards USNA (out of the academies). I have also received an AFROTC Scholarship to attend MIT, so I will only have to pay room and board.

As for my career goals, I would like to major in aerospace engineering and become a fighter pilot (F-35). I would then like to become a test pilot and eventually an astronaut. USNA has produced the most astronauts, but part of that seems to be a result of the initial astronauts as naval aviators. In recent years, it seems like MIT has produced more (MIT is 3rd on the list overall).

For potential options/opportunities, both offer great possibilities down the road. After speaking to the AFROTC detachment, possibilities at MIT include a nearly garunteed 5th year masters degree (paid for by Air Force), a near perfect pilot selection percentage, the likelihood of attending Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot training, and summer training possibilities like jump school, etc. With open summers, I could intern at places like SpaceX to gain valuable experience. With USNA, I am seeking someone who is a little more familiar with the graduate school process. I would like to try to get a masters from MIT following graduation (because I think I would benefit from both schools). I realize summer training is mandatory at the academy, so obviously I will have that opportunity, but what about internships?

As a part of this process, I have spoke with various former officers and military personnel. Many say that MIT would be better in the sense that you have to quickly learn how to function independently, which translates time management and essential skills once you reach active duty. Additionally, I have heard that the Academy breeds a more procedure-type thinking (not really out of the box thinking) when compared to other academies. I am wondering if anyone from the academy can speak to these claims. Additionally, what experiences do you get at the academy that would give a strong foundation for anything in life (vs experiences that you wouldn’t get at a standard college).

I have been to both campuses multiple times. From these visits, I certainly feel more at home with the Midshipmen who are quite like minded and driven as I am. I believe the ideal route for me would be USNA undergrad, MIT grad school. But with a nearly garunteed masters at MIT through AFROTC, I am hesitant to gamble and not be accepted later down the road. That is why I am seeking someone who may be familiar with the grad school route immediately after USNA. I read on USNAs webpage but it only says a small percentage go on to do this. What is the process to be able to do this?

If you respond, could you also provide some of you background information? Thank you for all of the help!
Click to expand...

So what did you decide?
 
westc37 said:
mattcat said:
Hello,

Since decision day is right around the corner, I am seeking advice for a very important decision. I am seeking input from experienced people as to which school would be better for me: USNA or AFROTC at MIT. Let me start by describing my situation, career goals, and potential options.

I have always wanted to serve my country and ever since 7th grade I have wanted to attend USNA. Coming into high school, I worked tirelessly towards achieving this goal. I received an LOA in September and an appointment in February. I also applied early action to MIT. I was accepted. To give you background, however, MIT was the only civilian school I applied to (I figured with the engineering reputation of MIT, it is the only school that would make me second guess going to USNA). The other schools were all of the service academies. I was accepted to all but I narrowed it down to USNA, USAFA, and MIT, with preference towards USNA (out of the academies). I have also received an AFROTC Scholarship to attend MIT, so I will only have to pay room and board.

As for my career goals, I would like to major in aerospace engineering and become a fighter pilot (F-35). I would then like to become a test pilot and eventually an astronaut. USNA has produced the most astronauts, but part of that seems to be a result of the initial astronauts as naval aviators. In recent years, it seems like MIT has produced more (MIT is 3rd on the list overall).

For potential options/opportunities, both offer great possibilities down the road. After speaking to the AFROTC detachment, possibilities at MIT include a nearly garunteed 5th year masters degree (paid for by Air Force), a near perfect pilot selection percentage, the likelihood of attending Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot training, and summer training possibilities like jump school, etc. With open summers, I could intern at places like SpaceX to gain valuable experience. With USNA, I am seeking someone who is a little more familiar with the graduate school process. I would like to try to get a masters from MIT following graduation (because I think I would benefit from both schools). I realize summer training is mandatory at the academy, so obviously I will have that opportunity, but what about internships?

As a part of this process, I have spoke with various former officers and military personnel. Many say that MIT would be better in the sense that you have to quickly learn how to function independently, which translates time management and essential skills once you reach active duty. Additionally, I have heard that the Academy breeds a more procedure-type thinking (not really out of the box thinking) when compared to other academies. I am wondering if anyone from the academy can speak to these claims. Additionally, what experiences do you get at the academy that would give a strong foundation for anything in life (vs experiences that you wouldn’t get at a standard college).

I have been to both campuses multiple times. From these visits, I certainly feel more at home with the Midshipmen who are quite like minded and driven as I am. I believe the ideal route for me would be USNA undergrad, MIT grad school. But with a nearly garunteed masters at MIT through AFROTC, I am hesitant to gamble and not be accepted later down the road. That is why I am seeking someone who may be familiar with the grad school route immediately after USNA. I read on USNAs webpage but it only says a small percentage go on to do this. What is the process to be able to do this?

If you respond, could you also provide some of you background information? Thank you for all of the help!
Click to expand...

So what did you decide?
Click to expand...
I went with USNA. I’m currently a plebe three weeks into the academic year (and through plebe summer). I think I made the right choice for me but I would be a liar if I said I haven’t questioned my decision at times. It always seems like the grass is greener elsewhere. My goal as of now is to select Marine Air and hopefully go to grad school at MIT, though this is far away. I ultimately decided based on the people. After the admitted students weekend at MIT, I realized I felt more at home with the type of people who comprise the brigade of midshipmen. Both routes offered a commission, the opportunity to serve my country, the opportunity to lead service men and women, and a great education. USNA offers an entire student body of people who are committed to these things. I chose to surround myself with people I aspire to be like and that’s what I found here at the academy.
 
mattcat. You chose wisely! ^^ if you graduate with Supe Honors and even Commandant’s Honors my prediction is you maybe a shoe in at MIT grad school. I know quite a few who went to MIT with 3.0+ GPA from SAs. Engineering grad school is different from Business School which looks for similar whole person evaluation. MIT grad school focuses more on grades and STEM results. And you will have plenty of STEM and Engineering at USNA even if you’re a History Major which is a strong Major at USNA. For humanities and social science majors at USNA seeking top grad schools for social science majors, your grades from USNA are given more favorably. You may even get in with Dean’s List. I know quite a few grads who went on to Yale and Harvard with 2.75-3.1 GPA from Annapolis and West Point. Grad schools know that you have more than academics to succeed at USNA or at other SAs. I believe ROTC also get some bonus points. Do well in your Plebe year. That will set you up for success. Chem is probably the most challenging class at Annapolis even if you had 5 on your AP Chem. I’m very happy for you that you chose Annapolis. You will have second Chance to go to other great schools later but you can only go to Annapolis now. It’s not a college and I’m sure that’s why you chose Annapolis.
 
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mattcat said:
I went with USNA. I’m currently a plebe three weeks into the academic year (and through plebe summer). I think I made the right choice for me but I would be a liar if I said I haven’t questioned my decision at times. It always seems like the grass is greener elsewhere. My goal as of now is to select Marine Air and hopefully go to grad school at MIT, though this is far away. I ultimately decided based on the people. After the admitted students weekend at MIT, I realized I felt more at home with the type of people who comprise the brigade of midshipmen. Both routes offered a commission, the opportunity to serve my country, the opportunity to lead service men and women, and a great education. USNA offers an entire student body of people who are committed to these things. I chose to surround myself with people I aspire to be like and that’s what I found here at the academy.
Click to expand...
Hello mattcatt,

This post is relevant as my DD is in a similar position: MIT w/ NROTC or USNA. After a few years of USNA experience, any regrets in your decision? Any advice you would offer to my DD?

Thank you in advance.
 
@GISG_J1513 -

This thread is 2.5 years old, OP has posted 3 times total (all in this thread) and last posted on this thread on 9/4/18.

Send OP a PM or look elsewhere for advice perhaps.
 
GISG_J1513 said:
Hello mattcatt,

This post is relevant as my DD is in a similar position: MIT w/ NROTC or USNA. After a few years of USNA experience, any regrets in your decision? Any advice you would offer to my DD?

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

Hi GISG_J1513,

Congrats to your DD on two awesome opportunities. I certainly don’t envy having to wrestle with the decision again. I’ll discuss some considerations that I had and I’ll try to give the best advice I can. Best of luck in the coming months as decision day approaches!

When considering both institutions, try to weigh some of your short and long term goals. What do you want to do in the next 5, 10, and 20 years? Do you want to go to graduate school? Do you just want a Bachelor's degree? What community do you want to serve in when you get to the fleet (aviation, marines, subs, etc.)? Do you want to make a career out of the military? Lastly, what do you want your college experience to be like?

I'll start with grad school, which was a large consideration for me. Part of what factored into my decision was the ability to attend both institutions, doing USNA undergrad and MIT grad. Leading up to decision day, I tried to get a better understanding of the graduate education process for school immediately out of USNA. I was not able to get a concrete picture of how this process worked (or how competitive it was) in all honesty, but I knew it was possible, so that was good enough for me. Being that I am about to start this process, I would be more than happy to discuss what opportunities exist and how likely they might be. At MIT, I was under a solid impression that there was an option for grad school as an AFROTC cadet. I was told that as someone pursuing a technical degree at MIT, the Air Force approves almost anything with respect to your education, which in many cases amounted to cadets delaying their commission by one year to pursue a Master's degree as a 5th year. This was an incredibly tempting option, but part of me wanted to get some academic diversity by receiving the degrees from two different institutions. That being said, two degrees from MIT would certainly be nice. I am not sure if there is a similar option for NROTC, but this was a big consideration for me.

For service selection, consider which community you are most interested in. You can get to any community through both routes, but here are some specific considerations to have. Are you completely decided on going Navy, or do you have any interest in the Marine Corps? The Naval Academy allows you to explore both and decide later. From what I recall with the NROTC scholarship, it is awarded for either Navy or Marine Corps (but not both). This was a large factor for me not even wanting to pursue the NROTC route, because I was unsure of which I wanted to do as a junior/senior in high school, so I did not apply for either. USNA allows you to delay the decision after getting exposed to both sides. Another consideration is if you are interested in doing something that is very selective likes SEALs or EOD. If that is the case then the academy is almost certainly the better route. The competition for these communities on the yard is very tough, but you can surround yourself with like minded individuals and train hard with them. You are unlikely to find a similar sized group of people at an ROTC detachment. Additionally, USNA grads have a statistically higher pass rate at BUD/s which I think can largely be attributed to the selection process/training. Moving on from the niche category of special warfare, consider the competition pool. At USNA, you are competing against your class for service selection. The better your ranking, the better your odds of getting your number one choice. As someone who got into MIT, you will almost definitely be at the top of your class, so you will have good odds at getting your number one choice. I imagine this would be similar as an MIT ROTC mid competing against all other ROTC mids, but I cannot really speak on that process since I am not that familiar with it. I'd like to think that more prestigious universities carry a little more weight in the selection process (i.e. MIT/Harvard/Yale mids vs. X-State University mids), but like I said, I am not sure of the process. That being said, if there is no consideration of the university, the potential for a lower GPA from challenging MIT courses could lower your ROTC ranking for service selection. Though this was an incredibly small factor for me, it was a factor nonetheless. The last consideration for service selection is the variety of resources. At USNA, there is a plethora of officers from every community. If you are interested in a certain part of the Navy/Marine Corps, you can find an officer who knows about it or who knows someone that knows about it. This has been pretty helpful for getting the information to make an informed decision for service selection. Since ROTC detachments are smaller, you may not have as much exposure, so you may only be limited to direct information about the main service communities.

As for the career consideration, this might be the toughest part of coming to a decision. As an 18 year old, you have to try to figure out what you want to do for your life. Clearly, for the next 9 years (at least) you have decided that you want to serve in the military and I commend you for that, but what do you want to do after this? Do you want to make a career out of the military or do you want to go work in the civilian world. It is okay if you are still unsure, there are plenty of people at USNA who are still figuring that out, myself included. USNA is likely a better option for career military while MIT is likely a better option for the civilian world, though both realistically are awesome options for either. The one nice thing about USNA is the networking within the Navy/Marine Corps. You will know members from the three classes above you and the three class below you, in addition to your own class. Collectively, that's a seven year spread of officers. This means that you will know a lot of people when you start off as a junior officer. You will be able to reach out to people ahead of you and ask for advice or assistance. Additionally, you will probably know one or two people at your first command. There might also be a little bit of an adjustment period coming from ROTC. While both USNA and ROTC mids are adjusting to life as a junior officer, USNA mids have lived in a military environment for the past four years, so they may be a little more comfortable at first. That being said, if there is a slight advantage to USNA mids at first, I've heard the ROTC mids quickly catch up. These are all small considerations that will impact your closer years (the ones immediately after college).

Lastly, what do you want out of your college experience? Do you want a more traditional college experience or do you a military experience? This is a huge consideration that will impact your quality of life for the next four years. I would argue that ROTC is an awesome way to achieve the same outcome (a college degree and a commission) without a lot of the frustrating inconveniences of a service academy. Firstly, plebe year is an incredibly different experience from your civilian college counterparts. From my own experience, this somewhat alienated me from my high school friends. You will be grinding everyday, mentally, physically, and morally. You will have morning workouts, you will have 18 credit hours for class, you will have to stand a variety of watches, you will have room inspections, you will have lots of restrictions (like only being allowed to leave on weekends), you will have punishments if you do something wrong. This is drastically different from the typical college experience or even the ROTC experience. Simply put, you are held to a different standard. You will be given extra obligations and you will be expected to manage your time effectively to accomplish all that is put on your plate. This does not let up much once plebe year is over. You will no longer have upperclassmen directly looking over you, but you will have an increase in leadership roles and (depending on your major) a significant increase in the difficulty of your courses. However, through the whole process, you will become incredibly close with your classmates. Misery loves company and you just might get a lot of both. One thing that I could not have factored in was the COVID situation. This has certainly impacted both potential routes. It seems like MIT has been conducting instruction remotely, something that would have certainly detracted from my experience there. However, the situation at USNA is not the greatest either. There has been a large increase in rules, restrictions, and low morale. I have not left the yard nearly all semester and even as I am writing this, I have been locked in my room for the entire month of March (with no clear end in sight) to try to limit the spread of COVID amongst the Brigade. A majority of significant, traditional USNA events have been cancelled in the past year and liberty has been scarce. This has definitely not made my experience ideal, but I also did not come here for liberty or dances/football games/etc. I came here to become a naval officer. I bring the COVID example up for two reason, the one being that the military will have full control over your life if you go to USNA. If they decide they want to lock you in your rooms, they will do it. If they decide to make you march in square with your rifle for X amount of days as a punishment for a conduct offense, they will make you do it. With ROTC, the military will not have as much oversight. The second reason however, is that the conditions at USNA have certainly toughened me up for arduous environments and challenging situations. While some restrictions are often frustrating, I have learned to become comfortable with making the best of any situation thrown at me. The last consideration when comparing both options is summer training opportunities. You will have awesome opportunities for the summer out of USNA, most of which are not offered through ROTC. Conversely, with ROTC, you will have the flexibility to attend some summer trainings, work a summer job, or do an awesome internship at some place like SpaceX. It all depends on which experience you prefer. I cannot say that many people prefer the USNA experience to a regular college experience, but many people tolerate for the variety of benefits down the road.

After writing a book of a response (sorry), I will let you know a little bit about myself and my experience here at USNA. I will also give my ultimate advice given my perspective from the past 3 years at USNA. I came to USNA with a variety of AP credits which afforded me the opportunity to validate a large amount of classes. There are a bunch of ways to take advantage of these validations (study abroad, academy exchange, language minors, lower course load, etc). I was supposed to use my validations through either studying in Singapore or at the Air Force Academy this past semester, but these all got cancelled due to COVID. I decided to make some lemonade with the unfortunate news. With the requirement to take courses this summer, I loaded up on as many classes and created more space in schedule. This allowed me to pursue a double major, which I am currently working on as I wrap up my time here. I was originally an aerospace engineering major (aero track) and I added on pure mathematics. It is definitely a grind, but I am confident it will be worthwhile in the end. Through the challenging 2/C courses, I have maintained a 3.75 GPA. This is lower than I'd like, to be completely honest, but a large amount of your GPA is dependent on the major you decide to take, and the engineering courses have not been the most forgiving. That being said, I plan to apply to grad school this upcoming fall and you can bet that I will be applying to MIT. In addition to academics, I am a coxswain on the heavyweight crew team. The crew team is a large time commitment, but it is incredibly worth it. I have had a variety of incredible racing opportunities through the team (like getting to race in England as one of my summer trainings - you can watch the race here). I am super excited to get back to racing this spring after last season was cancelled due to COVID. If you are considering participating in college athletics, Navy is a great place to do it. The potential to be on the crew team was definitely a factor in my decision. I was not recruited. Lastly, I am currently deciding between Marine Aviation and Naval Aviation for service selection, with an edge to the Marine side (rah).

That is a little bit about me and where I am at in my USNA career. To say that I haven't ever questioned my decision when times get tough would be an absolute lie. There have been a variety of times where I have always wondered "what if?" You will likely do the same regardless of your decision. However, ever since I was in 7th grade I have wanted to attend the Naval Academy. I think I would have regretted it more by not going here. I also said this in a previous post, but one of the biggest reasons for USNA was the people. I have truly made lifelong friends at this place. Whether my classmates in my company or my brothers on the crew team, I have forged lifelong bonds of friendship through the shared struggle of this place. I am looking forward to seeing my classmates excel as officers, as (eventual) civilians, as husbands/wives, as parents, and as leaders in their communities. For this, I already cannot wait for our class reunions to hear about how successful everyone has been. You will get similar camaraderie within your ROTC detachment, but I'm not sure it will span your entire MIT class. As a disclaimer, some of this post may have come off as being more pro-USNA. Part of that is the bias of my decision, and the other part is that I obviously know more about the USNA side of the decision since I am currently experiencing it. Both options are superb. If I could have somehow done both, I would have. Just remember that you are in an awesome spot and you cannot choose wrong either way. You have a very good problem on your hands!

Lastly, my ultimate advice. You will be able to achieve what you want through either route. If you have a long term goal in mind, both institutions will provide opportunities to move you closer to that goal. So long as you remain committed to that goal and stay the course, you will achieve the same outcome regardless of where you go to school. For this, choose whatever school fits you best. Academics, athletics, student body, reputation, whatever the metric, choose the school that aligns best with you. Once you decide, never look back! Continue on the path towards your next goal!

Rant over. If you want to discuss anything further, I am happy to arrange something via email, phone, or google meet to answer more specific questions. Good luck with the decision and let me know what you decide when the time comes!

GISG_J1513 said:
Hello mattcatt,

This post is relevant as my DD is in a similar position: MIT w/ NROTC or USNA. After a few years of USNA experience, any regrets in your decision? Any advice you would offer to my DD?

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
 
That was very kind of you @mattcat, to take the time for such a thoughtful response.
Thread necromancy hardly ever summons the OP, and this was great.

As a former pilot, I can tell you that there are a lot more opportunities to fly a variety of fixed-wing aircraft in The Navy as opposed to The Marine Corps, but obviously I get it. Rah.
 
mattcat said:
Hi GISG_J1513,

Congrats to your DD on two awesome opportunities. I certainly don’t envy having to wrestle with the decision again. I’ll discuss some considerations that I had and I’ll try to give the best advice I can. Best of luck in the coming months as decision day approaches!

When considering both institutions, try to weigh some of your short and long term goals. What do you want to do in the next 5, 10, and 20 years? Do you want to go to graduate school? Do you just want a Bachelor's degree? What community do you want to serve in when you get to the fleet (aviation, marines, subs, etc.)? Do you want to make a career out of the military? Lastly, what do you want your college experience to be like?

I'll start with grad school, which was a large consideration for me. Part of what factored into my decision was the ability to attend both institutions, doing USNA undergrad and MIT grad. Leading up to decision day, I tried to get a better understanding of the graduate education process for school immediately out of USNA. I was not able to get a concrete picture of how this process worked (or how competitive it was) in all honesty, but I knew it was possible, so that was good enough for me. Being that I am about to start this process, I would be more than happy to discuss what opportunities exist and how likely they might be. At MIT, I was under a solid impression that there was an option for grad school as an AFROTC cadet. I was told that as someone pursuing a technical degree at MIT, the Air Force approves almost anything with respect to your education, which in many cases amounted to cadets delaying their commission by one year to pursue a Master's degree as a 5th year. This was an incredibly tempting option, but part of me wanted to get some academic diversity by receiving the degrees from two different institutions. That being said, two degrees from MIT would certainly be nice. I am not sure if there is a similar option for NROTC, but this was a big consideration for me.

For service selection, consider which community you are most interested in. You can get to any community through both routes, but here are some specific considerations to have. Are you completely decided on going Navy, or do you have any interest in the Marine Corps? The Naval Academy allows you to explore both and decide later. From what I recall with the NROTC scholarship, it is awarded for either Navy or Marine Corps (but not both). This was a large factor for me not even wanting to pursue the NROTC route, because I was unsure of which I wanted to do as a junior/senior in high school, so I did not apply for either. USNA allows you to delay the decision after getting exposed to both sides. Another consideration is if you are interested in doing something that is very selective likes SEALs or EOD. If that is the case then the academy is almost certainly the better route. The competition for these communities on the yard is very tough, but you can surround yourself with like minded individuals and train hard with them. You are unlikely to find a similar sized group of people at an ROTC detachment. Additionally, USNA grads have a statistically higher pass rate at BUD/s which I think can largely be attributed to the selection process/training. Moving on from the niche category of special warfare, consider the competition pool. At USNA, you are competing against your class for service selection. The better your ranking, the better your odds of getting your number one choice. As someone who got into MIT, you will almost definitely be at the top of your class, so you will have good odds at getting your number one choice. I imagine this would be similar as an MIT ROTC mid competing against all other ROTC mids, but I cannot really speak on that process since I am not that familiar with it. I'd like to think that more prestigious universities carry a little more weight in the selection process (i.e. MIT/Harvard/Yale mids vs. X-State University mids), but like I said, I am not sure of the process. That being said, if there is no consideration of the university, the potential for a lower GPA from challenging MIT courses could lower your ROTC ranking for service selection. Though this was an incredibly small factor for me, it was a factor nonetheless. The last consideration for service selection is the variety of resources. At USNA, there is a plethora of officers from every community. If you are interested in a certain part of the Navy/Marine Corps, you can find an officer who knows about it or who knows someone that knows about it. This has been pretty helpful for getting the information to make an informed decision for service selection. Since ROTC detachments are smaller, you may not have as much exposure, so you may only be limited to direct information about the main service communities.

As for the career consideration, this might be the toughest part of coming to a decision. As an 18 year old, you have to try to figure out what you want to do for your life. Clearly, for the next 9 years (at least) you have decided that you want to serve in the military and I commend you for that, but what do you want to do after this? Do you want to make a career out of the military or do you want to go work in the civilian world. It is okay if you are still unsure, there are plenty of people at USNA who are still figuring that out, myself included. USNA is likely a better option for career military while MIT is likely a better option for the civilian world, though both realistically are awesome options for either. The one nice thing about USNA is the networking within the Navy/Marine Corps. You will know members from the three classes above you and the three class below you, in addition to your own class. Collectively, that's a seven year spread of officers. This means that you will know a lot of people when you start off as a junior officer. You will be able to reach out to people ahead of you and ask for advice or assistance. Additionally, you will probably know one or two people at your first command. There might also be a little bit of an adjustment period coming from ROTC. While both USNA and ROTC mids are adjusting to life as a junior officer, USNA mids have lived in a military environment for the past four years, so they may be a little more comfortable at first. That being said, if there is a slight advantage to USNA mids at first, I've heard the ROTC mids quickly catch up. These are all small considerations that will impact your closer years (the ones immediately after college).

Lastly, what do you want out of your college experience? Do you want a more traditional college experience or do you a military experience? This is a huge consideration that will impact your quality of life for the next four years. I would argue that ROTC is an awesome way to achieve the same outcome (a college degree and a commission) without a lot of the frustrating inconveniences of a service academy. Firstly, plebe year is an incredibly different experience from your civilian college counterparts. From my own experience, this somewhat alienated me from my high school friends. You will be grinding everyday, mentally, physically, and morally. You will have morning workouts, you will have 18 credit hours for class, you will have to stand a variety of watches, you will have room inspections, you will have lots of restrictions (like only being allowed to leave on weekends), you will have punishments if you do something wrong. This is drastically different from the typical college experience or even the ROTC experience. Simply put, you are held to a different standard. You will be given extra obligations and you will be expected to manage your time effectively to accomplish all that is put on your plate. This does not let up much once plebe year is over. You will no longer have upperclassmen directly looking over you, but you will have an increase in leadership roles and (depending on your major) a significant increase in the difficulty of your courses. However, through the whole process, you will become incredibly close with your classmates. Misery loves company and you just might get a lot of both. One thing that I could not have factored in was the COVID situation. This has certainly impacted both potential routes. It seems like MIT has been conducting instruction remotely, something that would have certainly detracted from my experience there. However, the situation at USNA is not the greatest either. There has been a large increase in rules, restrictions, and low morale. I have not left the yard nearly all semester and even as I am writing this, I have been locked in my room for the entire month of March (with no clear end in sight) to try to limit the spread of COVID amongst the Brigade. A majority of significant, traditional USNA events have been cancelled in the past year and liberty has been scarce. This has definitely not made my experience ideal, but I also did not come here for liberty or dances/football games/etc. I came here to become a naval officer. I bring the COVID example up for two reason, the one being that the military will have full control over your life if you go to USNA. If they decide they want to lock you in your rooms, they will do it. If they decide to make you march in square with your rifle for X amount of days as a punishment for a conduct offense, they will make you do it. With ROTC, the military will not have as much oversight. The second reason however, is that the conditions at USNA have certainly toughened me up for arduous environments and challenging situations. While some restrictions are often frustrating, I have learned to become comfortable with making the best of any situation thrown at me. The last consideration when comparing both options is summer training opportunities. You will have awesome opportunities for the summer out of USNA, most of which are not offered through ROTC. Conversely, with ROTC, you will have the flexibility to attend some summer trainings, work a summer job, or do an awesome internship at some place like SpaceX. It all depends on which experience you prefer. I cannot say that many people prefer the USNA experience to a regular college experience, but many people tolerate for the variety of benefits down the road.

After writing a book of a response (sorry), I will let you know a little bit about myself and my experience here at USNA. I will also give my ultimate advice given my perspective from the past 3 years at USNA. I came to USNA with a variety of AP credits which afforded me the opportunity to validate a large amount of classes. There are a bunch of ways to take advantage of these validations (study abroad, academy exchange, language minors, lower course load, etc). I was supposed to use my validations through either studying in Singapore or at the Air Force Academy this past semester, but these all got cancelled due to COVID. I decided to make some lemonade with the unfortunate news. With the requirement to take courses this summer, I loaded up on as many classes and created more space in schedule. This allowed me to pursue a double major, which I am currently working on as I wrap up my time here. I was originally an aerospace engineering major (aero track) and I added on pure mathematics. It is definitely a grind, but I am confident it will be worthwhile in the end. Through the challenging 2/C courses, I have maintained a 3.75 GPA. This is lower than I'd like, to be completely honest, but a large amount of your GPA is dependent on the major you decide to take, and the engineering courses have not been the most forgiving. That being said, I plan to apply to grad school this upcoming fall and you can bet that I will be applying to MIT. In addition to academics, I am a coxswain on the heavyweight crew team. The crew team is a large time commitment, but it is incredibly worth it. I have had a variety of incredible racing opportunities through the team (like getting to race in England as one of my summer trainings - you can watch the race here). I am super excited to get back to racing this spring after last season was cancelled due to COVID. If you are considering participating in college athletics, Navy is a great place to do it. The potential to be on the crew team was definitely a factor in my decision. I was not recruited. Lastly, I am currently deciding between Marine Aviation and Naval Aviation for service selection, with an edge to the Marine side (rah).

That is a little bit about me and where I am at in my USNA career. To say that I haven't ever questioned my decision when times get tough would be an absolute lie. There have been a variety of times where I have always wondered "what if?" You will likely do the same regardless of your decision. However, ever since I was in 7th grade I have wanted to attend the Naval Academy. I think I would have regretted it more by not going here. I also said this in a previous post, but one of the biggest reasons for USNA was the people. I have truly made lifelong friends at this place. Whether my classmates in my company or my brothers on the crew team, I have forged lifelong bonds of friendship through the shared struggle of this place. I am looking forward to seeing my classmates excel as officers, as (eventual) civilians, as husbands/wives, as parents, and as leaders in their communities. For this, I already cannot wait for our class reunions to hear about how successful everyone has been. You will get similar camaraderie within your ROTC detachment, but I'm not sure it will span your entire MIT class. As a disclaimer, some of this post may have come off as being more pro-USNA. Part of that is the bias of my decision, and the other part is that I obviously know more about the USNA side of the decision since I am currently experiencing it. Both options are superb. If I could have somehow done both, I would have. Just remember that you are in an awesome spot and you cannot choose wrong either way. You have a very good problem on your hands!

Lastly, my ultimate advice. You will be able to achieve what you want through either route. If you have a long term goal in mind, both institutions will provide opportunities to move you closer to that goal. So long as you remain committed to that goal and stay the course, you will achieve the same outcome regardless of where you go to school. For this, choose whatever school fits you best. Academics, athletics, student body, reputation, whatever the metric, choose the school that aligns best with you. Once you decide, never look back! Continue on the path towards your next goal!

Rant over. If you want to discuss anything further, I am happy to arrange something via email, phone, or google meet to answer more specific questions. Good luck with the decision and let me know what you decide when the time comes!
Click to expand...
Hi Mattcat,


I just read your post from 2017 where you were trying to decide which school to attend.
Your story sounds very similar to my sons from the standpoint of dream schools and career goals. However he is a few years behind you having just started the application process for the class of 26.
As most schools, MIT states that they use a whole person approach to admissions so I’m curious how that translates to admission decisions when one has a resume such as yours with regard to your extensive involvement in CAP and I assume community service.
If you would be willing to share your HS unweighted & weighted gpa and SAT/ACT scores and your CAP rank at application it would be appreciated.
Any background you could share would be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
Mdm26 said:
Hi Mattcat,


I just read your post from 2017 where you were trying to decide which school to attend.
Your story sounds very similar to my sons from the standpoint of dream schools and career goals. However he is a few years behind you having just started the application process for the class of 26.
As most schools, MIT states that they use a whole person approach to admissions so I’m curious how that translates to admission decisions when one has a resume such as yours with regard to your extensive involvement in CAP and I assume community service.
If you would be willing to share your HS unweighted & weighted gpa and SAT/ACT scores and your CAP rank at application it would be appreciated.
Any background you could share would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Hi Mdm26,

Good luck to your son in the upcoming application cycle. I hope everything works out! I'm happy to help.

In high school, I graduated 3/314 with a weighted GPA of 4.8872. I'm not sure what that is unweighted and I can't seem to find a copy of my transcripts to try to compute one. I had a lot of A+'s, a few A's, and very few A-'s. My SAT was not that impressive by MIT standards. I received a 1480, with a 760 in math and a 720 in English. I took the math II and physics subject tests and scored in the mid-700s. I also took 13 AP tests, which I think helped my application.

I did a lot outside of the classroom and I tried to find my way into any leadership opportunity possible. I was my class president and the president of the National Honor Society. I was a C/Lt Col in CAP and I did a lot within this program including soloing in a glider and a powered aircraft as well as assuming leadership roles within my local squadron and at the wing's annual basic encampment. I also played a lot of sports and I was the captain of one of my teams during my senior year of high school.

If you make yourself competitive for an academy, you will be competitive for other programs as well. I hope this somewhat helps. There is no "one size fits all" for admissions, this is just what I did and it seemed to work. Hopefully the same happens for you son. Good luck!
 
mattcat said:
Hi GISG_J1513,

Congrats to your DD on two awesome opportunities. I certainly don’t envy having to wrestle with the decision again. I’ll discuss some considerations that I had and I’ll try to give the best advice I can. Best of luck in the coming months as decision day approaches!

When considering both institutions, try to weigh some of your short and long term goals. What do you want to do in the next 5, 10, and 20 years? Do you want to go to graduate school? Do you just want a Bachelor's degree? What community do you want to serve in when you get to the fleet (aviation, marines, subs, etc.)? Do you want to make a career out of the military? Lastly, what do you want your college experience to be like?

I'll start with grad school, which was a large consideration for me. Part of what factored into my decision was the ability to attend both institutions, doing USNA undergrad and MIT grad. Leading up to decision day, I tried to get a better understanding of the graduate education process for school immediately out of USNA. I was not able to get a concrete picture of how this process worked (or how competitive it was) in all honesty, but I knew it was possible, so that was good enough for me. Being that I am about to start this process, I would be more than happy to discuss what opportunities exist and how likely they might be. At MIT, I was under a solid impression that there was an option for grad school as an AFROTC cadet. I was told that as someone pursuing a technical degree at MIT, the Air Force approves almost anything with respect to your education, which in many cases amounted to cadets delaying their commission by one year to pursue a Master's degree as a 5th year. This was an incredibly tempting option, but part of me wanted to get some academic diversity by receiving the degrees from two different institutions. That being said, two degrees from MIT would certainly be nice. I am not sure if there is a similar option for NROTC, but this was a big consideration for me.

For service selection, consider which community you are most interested in. You can get to any community through both routes, but here are some specific considerations to have. Are you completely decided on going Navy, or do you have any interest in the Marine Corps? The Naval Academy allows you to explore both and decide later. From what I recall with the NROTC scholarship, it is awarded for either Navy or Marine Corps (but not both). This was a large factor for me not even wanting to pursue the NROTC route, because I was unsure of which I wanted to do as a junior/senior in high school, so I did not apply for either. USNA allows you to delay the decision after getting exposed to both sides. Another consideration is if you are interested in doing something that is very selective likes SEALs or EOD. If that is the case then the academy is almost certainly the better route. The competition for these communities on the yard is very tough, but you can surround yourself with like minded individuals and train hard with them. You are unlikely to find a similar sized group of people at an ROTC detachment. Additionally, USNA grads have a statistically higher pass rate at BUD/s which I think can largely be attributed to the selection process/training. Moving on from the niche category of special warfare, consider the competition pool. At USNA, you are competing against your class for service selection. The better your ranking, the better your odds of getting your number one choice. As someone who got into MIT, you will almost definitely be at the top of your class, so you will have good odds at getting your number one choice. I imagine this would be similar as an MIT ROTC mid competing against all other ROTC mids, but I cannot really speak on that process since I am not that familiar with it. I'd like to think that more prestigious universities carry a little more weight in the selection process (i.e. MIT/Harvard/Yale mids vs. X-State University mids), but like I said, I am not sure of the process. That being said, if there is no consideration of the university, the potential for a lower GPA from challenging MIT courses could lower your ROTC ranking for service selection. Though this was an incredibly small factor for me, it was a factor nonetheless. The last consideration for service selection is the variety of resources. At USNA, there is a plethora of officers from every community. If you are interested in a certain part of the Navy/Marine Corps, you can find an officer who knows about it or who knows someone that knows about it. This has been pretty helpful for getting the information to make an informed decision for service selection. Since ROTC detachments are smaller, you may not have as much exposure, so you may only be limited to direct information about the main service communities.

As for the career consideration, this might be the toughest part of coming to a decision. As an 18 year old, you have to try to figure out what you want to do for your life. Clearly, for the next 9 years (at least) you have decided that you want to serve in the military and I commend you for that, but what do you want to do after this? Do you want to make a career out of the military or do you want to go work in the civilian world. It is okay if you are still unsure, there are plenty of people at USNA who are still figuring that out, myself included. USNA is likely a better option for career military while MIT is likely a better option for the civilian world, though both realistically are awesome options for either. The one nice thing about USNA is the networking within the Navy/Marine Corps. You will know members from the three classes above you and the three class below you, in addition to your own class. Collectively, that's a seven year spread of officers. This means that you will know a lot of people when you start off as a junior officer. You will be able to reach out to people ahead of you and ask for advice or assistance. Additionally, you will probably know one or two people at your first command. There might also be a little bit of an adjustment period coming from ROTC. While both USNA and ROTC mids are adjusting to life as a junior officer, USNA mids have lived in a military environment for the past four years, so they may be a little more comfortable at first. That being said, if there is a slight advantage to USNA mids at first, I've heard the ROTC mids quickly catch up. These are all small considerations that will impact your closer years (the ones immediately after college).

Lastly, what do you want out of your college experience? Do you want a more traditional college experience or do you a military experience? This is a huge consideration that will impact your quality of life for the next four years. I would argue that ROTC is an awesome way to achieve the same outcome (a college degree and a commission) without a lot of the frustrating inconveniences of a service academy. Firstly, plebe year is an incredibly different experience from your civilian college counterparts. From my own experience, this somewhat alienated me from my high school friends. You will be grinding everyday, mentally, physically, and morally. You will have morning workouts, you will have 18 credit hours for class, you will have to stand a variety of watches, you will have room inspections, you will have lots of restrictions (like only being allowed to leave on weekends), you will have punishments if you do something wrong. This is drastically different from the typical college experience or even the ROTC experience. Simply put, you are held to a different standard. You will be given extra obligations and you will be expected to manage your time effectively to accomplish all that is put on your plate. This does not let up much once plebe year is over. You will no longer have upperclassmen directly looking over you, but you will have an increase in leadership roles and (depending on your major) a significant increase in the difficulty of your courses. However, through the whole process, you will become incredibly close with your classmates. Misery loves company and you just might get a lot of both. One thing that I could not have factored in was the COVID situation. This has certainly impacted both potential routes. It seems like MIT has been conducting instruction remotely, something that would have certainly detracted from my experience there. However, the situation at USNA is not the greatest either. There has been a large increase in rules, restrictions, and low morale. I have not left the yard nearly all semester and even as I am writing this, I have been locked in my room for the entire month of March (with no clear end in sight) to try to limit the spread of COVID amongst the Brigade. A majority of significant, traditional USNA events have been cancelled in the past year and liberty has been scarce. This has definitely not made my experience ideal, but I also did not come here for liberty or dances/football games/etc. I came here to become a naval officer. I bring the COVID example up for two reason, the one being that the military will have full control over your life if you go to USNA. If they decide they want to lock you in your rooms, they will do it. If they decide to make you march in square with your rifle for X amount of days as a punishment for a conduct offense, they will make you do it. With ROTC, the military will not have as much oversight. The second reason however, is that the conditions at USNA have certainly toughened me up for arduous environments and challenging situations. While some restrictions are often frustrating, I have learned to become comfortable with making the best of any situation thrown at me. The last consideration when comparing both options is summer training opportunities. You will have awesome opportunities for the summer out of USNA, most of which are not offered through ROTC. Conversely, with ROTC, you will have the flexibility to attend some summer trainings, work a summer job, or do an awesome internship at some place like SpaceX. It all depends on which experience you prefer. I cannot say that many people prefer the USNA experience to a regular college experience, but many people tolerate for the variety of benefits down the road.

After writing a book of a response (sorry), I will let you know a little bit about myself and my experience here at USNA. I will also give my ultimate advice given my perspective from the past 3 years at USNA. I came to USNA with a variety of AP credits which afforded me the opportunity to validate a large amount of classes. There are a bunch of ways to take advantage of these validations (study abroad, academy exchange, language minors, lower course load, etc). I was supposed to use my validations through either studying in Singapore or at the Air Force Academy this past semester, but these all got cancelled due to COVID. I decided to make some lemonade with the unfortunate news. With the requirement to take courses this summer, I loaded up on as many classes and created more space in schedule. This allowed me to pursue a double major, which I am currently working on as I wrap up my time here. I was originally an aerospace engineering major (aero track) and I added on pure mathematics. It is definitely a grind, but I am confident it will be worthwhile in the end. Through the challenging 2/C courses, I have maintained a 3.75 GPA. This is lower than I'd like, to be completely honest, but a large amount of your GPA is dependent on the major you decide to take, and the engineering courses have not been the most forgiving. That being said, I plan to apply to grad school this upcoming fall and you can bet that I will be applying to MIT. In addition to academics, I am a coxswain on the heavyweight crew team. The crew team is a large time commitment, but it is incredibly worth it. I have had a variety of incredible racing opportunities through the team (like getting to race in England as one of my summer trainings - you can watch the race here). I am super excited to get back to racing this spring after last season was cancelled due to COVID. If you are considering participating in college athletics, Navy is a great place to do it. The potential to be on the crew team was definitely a factor in my decision. I was not recruited. Lastly, I am currently deciding between Marine Aviation and Naval Aviation for service selection, with an edge to the Marine side (rah).

That is a little bit about me and where I am at in my USNA career. To say that I haven't ever questioned my decision when times get tough would be an absolute lie. There have been a variety of times where I have always wondered "what if?" You will likely do the same regardless of your decision. However, ever since I was in 7th grade I have wanted to attend the Naval Academy. I think I would have regretted it more by not going here. I also said this in a previous post, but one of the biggest reasons for USNA was the people. I have truly made lifelong friends at this place. Whether my classmates in my company or my brothers on the crew team, I have forged lifelong bonds of friendship through the shared struggle of this place. I am looking forward to seeing my classmates excel as officers, as (eventual) civilians, as husbands/wives, as parents, and as leaders in their communities. For this, I already cannot wait for our class reunions to hear about how successful everyone has been. You will get similar camaraderie within your ROTC detachment, but I'm not sure it will span your entire MIT class. As a disclaimer, some of this post may have come off as being more pro-USNA. Part of that is the bias of my decision, and the other part is that I obviously know more about the USNA side of the decision since I am currently experiencing it. Both options are superb. If I could have somehow done both, I would have. Just remember that you are in an awesome spot and you cannot choose wrong either way. You have a very good problem on your hands!

Lastly, my ultimate advice. You will be able to achieve what you want through either route. If you have a long term goal in mind, both institutions will provide opportunities to move you closer to that goal. So long as you remain committed to that goal and stay the course, you will achieve the same outcome regardless of where you go to school. For this, choose whatever school fits you best. Academics, athletics, student body, reputation, whatever the metric, choose the school that aligns best with you. Once you decide, never look back! Continue on the path towards your next goal!

Rant over. If you want to discuss anything further, I am happy to arrange something via email, phone, or google meet to answer more specific questions. Good luck with the decision and let me know what you decide when the time comes!
Click to expand...
That was awesome! Thank you for your insight.I’m glad I took the time to look through this old post and very happy to hear that you are doing well! You have an incredible future to look forward to!
 
mattcat said:
Hi Mdm26,

Good luck to your son in the upcoming application cycle. I hope everything works out! I'm happy to help.

In high school, I graduated 3/314 with a weighted GPA of 4.8872. I'm not sure what that is unweighted and I can't seem to find a copy of my transcripts to try to compute one. I had a lot of A+'s, a few A's, and very few A-'s. My SAT was not that impressive by MIT standards. I received a 1480, with a 760 in math and a 720 in English. I took the math II and physics subject tests and scored in the mid-700s. I also took 13 AP tests, which I think helped my application.

I did a lot outside of the classroom and I tried to find my way into any leadership opportunity possible. I was my class president and the president of the National Honor Society. I was a C/Lt Col in CAP and I did a lot within this program including soloing in a glider and a powered aircraft as well as assuming leadership roles within my local squadron and at the wing's annual basic encampment. I also played a lot of sports and I was the captain of one of my teams during my senior year of high school.

If you make yourself competitive for an academy, you will be competitive for other programs as well. I hope this somewhat helps. There is no "one size fits all" for admissions, this is just what I did and it seemed to work. Hopefully the same happens for you son. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Mattcat,

Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. It’s very helpful and greatly appreciated.

Good luck with everything.
 
Mattcat,

Wow, I'm truly floored by the thoughtful and amazing response! Thank you for carving out that much time to provide such valuable feedback. It's meaningful in so many ways. My DD and I sat next to each other and read your response together and she nodded her head frequently to your comments. This journey feels unique and it's great to have people who have gone through it before. We know DD is blessed beyond words with the choice in front of her.

I'll reach out via DM as a next step. Thank you again!
 
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