USNA to NROTC

J

jesus_is_savior

New Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
5
(Repost because I posted under the wrong thread) So I resigned from the Naval Academy about a year ago and my DD 785 has a rating of '3'. To join an NROTC unit do I need a waiver? If so is the waiver authority to the unit commander or someone in the Big Navy?
 
While you are still in the editing window, you might want to zip in and fix the thread title typo.
 
@GWU PNS Here’s the original thread with initial responses, to catch you up.

USNA to NROTC

So I resigned from the Naval Academy about a year ago and my DD 785 has a rating of '3'. To join an NROTC unit do I need a waiver? If so is the waiver authority to the unit commander or someone in the Big Navy?
www.serviceacademyforums.com
 
A rating of 3 alone is insufficient to determine the impact of your disenrollment on your future military options. That rating just advises you should not be considered without weighing the needs of the service against the reasons for this disenrollment that were documented.
1637326703559.png
Purely for your own reflection, look at the reasons listed in section III in your DD-785? Why did someone call attention to these for future readers? Will these present as a concern to the ROTC unit or the Navy?

1637326809602.png
We can pontificate on this but instead recommend you meet with the ROO of the ROTC unit you wish to train in, and discuss your options. Bring a copy of the form, and lay it out. Own the mistake if there was one, and discuss your desire to serve. Overall I recommend young (and old) people look to not be defined by their mistakes and being able to honestly discuss them, own them, and move beyond them will speak well of your character. I have failed at jobs, some personal relationships despite best efforts and I think those failures taught me a great deal - your experiences can teach you, as well. Let us know what you find out please.

Much like my guidance for people interested in flying to get up in the air and make sure there's nothing stopping you, you should do the same here. Go for it, and I hope it works out for you.

If you're talented enough to gain admission to USNA then you have high potential and I wish you the best at fulfilling that potential and achieving your goal to serve as an officer. Best of luck to you.
 
Generally speaking, people leave USNA for either academic reasons or sometimes medical issues arise. Can't tell what the specific issue is here. When I have had requests to transfer from USNA to NROTC, I usually hear about it from the Blue and Gold sponsor. If not, I would ask the prospective Midshipman who their last advisor was so I could get their view on the matter.

But, since one of the questions in the original post centered on the role of the Unit commander, I can tell you I don't get to unilaterally accept anyone for a scholarship. There would be the normal application process that others go through.

To be transparent, when I see a transfer request where someone is not highly recommended, my first question would be......"Let's cut straight to the point.....why weren't you highly recommended?" The answer will drive any other inquiries.
 
Herman_Snerd said:
A rating of 3 alone is insufficient to determine the impact of your disenrollment on your future military options. That rating just advises you should not be considered without weighing the needs of the service against the reasons for this disenrollment that were documented.
View attachment 10541
Purely for your own reflection, look at the reasons listed in section III in your DD-785? Why did someone call attention to these for future readers? Will these present as a concern to the ROTC unit or the Navy?

View attachment 10542
We can pontificate on this but instead recommend you meet with the ROO of the ROTC unit you wish to train in, and discuss your options. Bring a copy of the form, and lay it out. Own the mistake if there was one, and discuss your desire to serve. Overall I recommend young (and old) people look to not be defined by their mistakes and being able to honestly discuss them, own them, and move beyond them will speak well of your character. I have failed at jobs, some personal relationships despite best efforts and I think those failures taught me a great deal - your experiences can teach you, as well. Let us know what you find out please.

Much like my guidance for people interested in flying to get up in the air and make sure there's nothing stopping you, you should do the same here. Go for it, and I hope it works out for you.

If you're talented enough to gain admission to USNA then you have high potential and I wish you the best at fulfilling that potential and achieving your goal to serve as an officer. Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response. What about OCS? I read on some forums that OCS doesn't even look at the DD785. I'm just confused as to where to present this document. It's been made clear that my DD214 is far more important when it comes to re-entry into the military than my DD785. I'm just wondering why some places I need to present my 785 (ROTC I'm assuming) and not OCS. I tried looking up the reg for this, but I can't find anything about it. I know that if I need a waiver and don't get one, but still commission, I can be court-martialled, so it's just really confusing.
 
jesus_is_savior said:
Thank you for the response. What about OCS? I read on some forums that OCS doesn't even look at the DD785. I'm just confused as to where to present this document. It's been made clear that my DD214 is far more important when it comes to re-entry into the military than my DD785. I'm just wondering why some places I need to present my 785 (ROTC I'm assuming) and not OCS. I tried looking up the reg for this, but I can't find anything about it. I know that if I need a waiver and don't get one, but still commission, I can be court-martialled, so it's just really confusing.
Click to expand...
Get off the internet, you'll end up in a death spiral of bad gouge. Talk to someone in person, where you can explain the situation and see if it will be a problem. Recommend for OCS you find the officer recruiter specifically, probably will be at the region office ("Talent Acquisition Group") and not at your local recruiting office.

There's no black-and-white answer. Anecdotal evidence like "I had a buddy that got in with an RE-3 so I think you're fine" doesn't apply to your individual situation. It depends on what's written in section III. If what's in there looks bad, and you're asking these questions because you think in your mind that you probably don't have a chance--you won't know until you ask. And in my opinion it's a bad idea to try to walk into an NROTC unit or recruitment office and pretend like you've never been in the Navy and nothing ever happened.

I'm not a lawyer and won't get into UCMJ, but intentionally omitting relevant information on any of the various forms you end up filling out (i.e. an SF-86) is a very bad idea.
 
nuensis said:
Get off the internet, you'll end up in a death spiral of bad gouge. Talk to someone in person, where you can explain the situation and see if it will be a problem. Recommend for OCS you find the officer recruiter specifically, probably will be at the region office ("Talent Acquisition Group") and not at your local recruiting office.

There's no black-and-white answer. Anecdotal evidence like "I had a buddy that got in with an RE-3 so I think you're fine" doesn't apply to your individual situation. It depends on what's written in section III. If what's in there looks bad, and you're asking these questions because you think in your mind that you probably don't have a chance--you won't know until you ask. And in my opinion it's a bad idea to try to walk into an NROTC unit or recruitment office and pretend like you've never been in the Navy and nothing ever happened.

I'm not a lawyer and won't get into UCMJ, but intentionally omitting relevant information on any of the various forms you end up filling out (i.e. an SF-86) is a very bad idea.
Click to expand...
Good points all.
The OP’s SSN will already be in “the system” in various ways because of their AD time at USNA. DEERS for ID and TRICARE purposes. DFAS for pay reasons. They would be in the security system due to filling out the SF-86 on their way into USNA. The DD-214 will have a reenlistment code on it, plus documentation of the USNA time. OP has gotten plenty of advice in multiple threads to seek out official sources for a candid and full-share assessment of whether they have a shot of being accepted to another pre-comm program.
 
Last edited:
Herman_Snerd said:
A rating of 3 alone is insufficient to determine the impact of your disenrollment on your future military options. That rating just advises you should not be considered without weighing the needs of the service against the reasons for this disenrollment that were documented.
View attachment 10541
Purely for your own reflection, look at the reasons listed in section III in your DD-785? Why did someone call attention to these for future readers? Will these present as a concern to the ROTC unit or the Navy?

View attachment 10542
We can pontificate on this but instead recommend you meet with the ROO of the ROTC unit you wish to train in, and discuss your options. Bring a copy of the form, and lay it out. Own the mistake if there was one, and discuss your desire to serve. Overall I recommend young (and old) people look to not be defined by their mistakes and being able to honestly discuss them, own them, and move beyond them will speak well of your character. I have failed at jobs, some personal relationships despite best efforts and I think those failures taught me a great deal - your experiences can teach you, as well. Let us know what you find out please.

Much like my guidance for people interested in flying to get up in the air and make sure there's nothing stopping you, you should do the same here. Go for it, and I hope it works out for you.

If you're talented enough to gain admission to USNA then you have high potential and I wish you the best at fulfilling that potential and achieving your goal to serve as an officer. Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...
Would you be able to point me to a specific regulation just so I get a better insight into exactly what needs to be done? The Air Force has a clear reg for this in Afman 36-2012, but I can't find NROTC's equivalent.
 
NRC has their directives locked up on a web portal. I expect you'll have a problem accessing them. Good on you if you can find any of them on the Internet. The most relevant instruction has a distribution statement on the cover, so I will not be sharing its contents.

Give it up, just talk to a recruiter or your local NROTC unit. I really don't understand why you think you need to go at this alone.
 
You have gotten more than one thread’s worth of advice over the last several days suggesting you contact official sources at NROTC or a detachment to have someone review your document, assess your situation WRT acceptance into a NROTC program and advise you on next steps.

Have you done that? Wouldn’t you rather just know, rip the bandaid right off, so you can deal with any pain but then have complete clarity on whether this door is open to you or not? Muster your courage and resolve, take a deep breath, face your dread and take a step down the path. This is a life skill. Clearly, you had academic and leadership potential to earn an appointment to USNA; that has not evaporated. If a path to a Navy commission is not viable, then you gather up your drive, resolve, grit and will, identify a new path, and go for it.

I hope you are not continuing to look for the written policy as a substitute for direct action or something to tell you that you can avoid mentioning the DD-785. You and your SSN are already in “the system” somewhere.

Posters here are not reluctant to give tough love type of advice. You’ve quite possibly had a dream blow up in your face, and from your perspective, you might be feeling a bit stuck. Action almost always feels better than inaction or reaction when dealing with a dilemma. Use the brains and drive that got you into USNA to tackle the NROTC and OCS yes or no situation by finding a live human being who is an official source to talk to.

You’ve been directed to the right person to start the discussion with at a NROTC unit, as well as been given a website link for contacting “big NROTC.” For Navy OCS, the officer program recruiters work out of regional offices. See link below to find the one closest to you. They do talk to people without degrees in hand yet. They found me in fall of my senior college year. For a question like yours, they will know the process required.
www.navycs.com

Navy Talent Acquisition Group Addresses

Navy Talent Acquisition Group, formerly known as Navy Recruiting District, address, Unit Identification Code and Web site listing.
www.navycs.com

There is no need to be confused about the process, about waivers or if/when a document is presented. Ask the people whose job it is to recruit for officer programs. “I voluntarily separated from USNA in YYYY after X years, reflected on my DD-214. Right upfront, I have a DD-785 with a “3” recommendation, and the comments that note Z. I still deeply desire to obtain a commission as a Naval officer. Would you please advise me on what the process is for my situation with regard to applying to (NROTC) (OCS)? I would appreciate complete candor on your assessment as to whether I would be accepted.”
 
Last edited:
Finally - and no need to share here - have you contemplated with a clear inward look what the comments noted where you received the “3” recommendation? Have they given you food for thought? Forced you to think about how your actions or traits appear to others? Why you might be perceived a certain way? That there is some or a lot of truth there? Every one of us is a flawed human being. We should count ourselves lucky to be given feedback at times that may disagree with how we think of ourselves. I truly dislike those 360 degree type evaluations often done in the workplace, but I know why I don’t like them. They point out less attractive traits, habits, perspectives, ways of interacting with others. They make me feel uncomfortable and flawed and uneasy. I want to ignore them somehow. The wonderful thing is humans can grow and change for the better. We can be mindful of our flaws and work to overcome or counterbalance them. Is there anything in those comments that relates to how you are handling your approach to this situation? This is all rhetorical.
 
Unusual circumstances require extreme measures. A few minutes ago, @jesus_is_savior, I uttered a secret spell discovered during my childhood watching Saturday morning cartoons. I stated “by the power of GreySkull, I have the power”, He-Man, style. With those extraordinary powers of the universe coursing through my veins, I appealed to the universe to help you to stop pontificating / wasting your and others’ time, and I prayed for you too, to have awareness. Please go have a conversation with an OCS recruiter and NROTC ROO. Do you feel it – that compelling energy and the boost it’s bringing you? You’re welcome. Let us know how it goes.

Just state you had a disconnect with one of the academies but are interested to serve and would like to know your options. Let us know what you find. If you’re trying to get someone to say you don’t need to tell X,Y,Z about your USNA disconnect, you’re being delusional – you have a record and it will be reviewed. Even it on your departure from USNA a stinkbomb was documented, go and find out what your options are? You may be given a second chance. Adults with experience understand that disconnects happen, but you may still have something to offer their branch. Go-And-Find-Out – redirect. I’m starting to think you may have a character flaw or want others to solve this for you, or have a very damning discharge note in your opinion – either way, the solution path is the same – GO-AND-FIND-OUT with two simple conversations.

Do you know how many famous people have stink bombs on their record – Bill Gates, etc. And how many of us failed along the way to succeeding, and will fail again as we go forward? It happens, but stop looking for a reason to hide your past – own it, and find out where you can go. Hopefully you’ll be on this board starting in a few months guiding others with your success story *Or you’ll be a cautionary tale of how to sabotage your own chances by sitting in neutral and trying to be a weasel. Fork in the road time, but I for one am going to try to have little additional energy invested in what I and others keep telling you over and over. Stop answer shopping, start owning and find out.

Eeish.

1638198939817.png
 
Last edited:
OP I wonder if you could speak to ‘regret’. To help others. As this is an anonymous forum. There are some presently considering DORing. I’m curious if any of your present situation evolves around regretting your decision to leave.

Maybe not and that’s ok but you do potentially have the ability to help others.

Seriously good luck to you. Adulting is hard. But you can do it. Whatever your next journey is. Be brave. Someday this will only be a story as to where you end up.
 
As the years have gone by, my personality has evolved from the kind of person who watches someone tending a fire and wondering how it started, to a more aggressive person who takes the "poker" from the fireplace stand and gives a few short jabs and watches the flames shoot up. And once in a while, like now, I am the person who comes in with a bucket of JP-5 and throws it into the fire and shouts, whoah, look at her burn!!!

So, firstly, in terms of where any requirement comes from, I would offer the DoD 1215.08. I believe the current version is the change 1 from 2018 but I seriously doubt much has changed. It mentions the DD 785 should be submitted with the request for NROTC transfer (or any ROTC for that matter since it's DoD). While it does not mandate, the expectation is that any effort to obtain a commission is based on the notion of transparency and integrity.

As I believe CAPT MJ alluded to earlier, your record is in the system, specifically in the DoDMERB system for medical screening, and it is also in a system called OPMIS, which is too complicated for me to get into in a thread that ran its course a while back except for the OP's untiring efforts to have someone else do the heavy lifting. If offered an NROTC scholarship, you would sign a series of documents. One of those would be an attestation as to whether or not you had ever been offered a previous appointment or scholarship. Failure to disclose constitutes a false official statement, and I am sure you already know how that would go.

While I am loathe to jump to any conclusions based on scant information, everything I read from the OP on the various threads whispers to me......."integrity violation". And based again solely on the threads here, the basic intent of ......."well......do I really, really have to be honest and talk about the DD-785?", tells me that the level of maturation and recovery I would want to see from a prospective Mid trying to come to my unit isn't there.

Not sure what part of the country you are located in right now, but if I could offer any unsolicited advice it would be this: You have spoken volumes about your potential to commission as a naval officer, whether or not you wanted to do that. And I am going to bet I am not the only one on here with that thought.

I decided to attach the reference I wrote about above. I did that for the benefit of the moderators here, not for the OP. (page 30 at the bottom and page 31 are germane)
 

Attachments

  • 121508p.pdf
    274.2 KB · Views: 10
Fire Fire, Class Bravo fire!
Provide from Repair Five.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top