USNA vs NROTC officers

peskemom said:
Now.....the other factor concerns Marines.....

They are an entire phenomenon all together and everything I just said throw out the window.

Every single Marine Officer, be they USNA, ROTC, OCS, has to experience The Basic School (TBS) where they are molded into the Marine mindset the MARINES WAY! And in my talking with Marines who came from all 3 ways to their 2/Lt Commission ------no one cares one whit about your prior education. It's what you do as a M A R I N E that matters, and that happens from second one of TBS down at Quantico. My girl will take this path and sometimes she actually whistfully looks at her Marine ROTC component friends who have already had many many trainings with the Marines while she is pretty much all Navy-scheduled for Summer training requirements that conflict with her Marine-heart. But that is the way it is for USNA interested Marines. And they too must suck it up until Service Selection, Commissioning and that trip down to Quantico.

:)

Frankly whatever path your son chooses will prepare him well. May God guide his decisions.
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An interesting stat I stumbled across for USMC Commissioning Sources FY-07 are as follows:
OCC-33%
PLC-24%
NROTC-16%
USNA-14%
MECEP-8%
ECP/MCP-5%
 
Academy vs. ROTC

A lively thread!

My two cents, based on 26 years as a naval officer out of OCS, married to a USNA grad also with 26 years, sponsor of USNA midshipmen and former USNA BattO: USNA grads are by far the most professionally ready to join the Fleet or Corps, having been immersed in culture, practice and daily experience of military discipline. They are somewhat behind in "living on their own" skills but soon catch up. ROTC grads have a nice mix of real-life skills and professional exposure, but have to play some catch-up ball. OCS folks have to hit the ground running and cram on the professional front. Regardless of commissioning source, once they arrive in the Fleet or Corps, it's performance, performance, performance.

We counsel our midshipman sponsor sons and daughters they have a definite edge going in, but that effect wears off in the first year when ROTC and other commissioning source folks (equally bright but chose a different path) find their stride. There is always a grain of truth in favorite stereotypes thrown out about the commissioning sources, i.e., Academy grads being clueless about living on their own and cooking for themselves, ROTC grads not understanding the concept of a duty weekend. The Navy and Marine Corps are environments where "effort = results" is a driver for success, and commissioning source fades into the background when performance takes over. I also give huge kudos to Academy grads for their edge in a built-in professional network. They will meet company mates and classmates wherever they go, and their transition is easier.

For aspiring mids and cadets out there, if an Academy isn't in your cards, and ROTC is offered, take it, it's a fine way to go and gets you to your commission as an officer. After that, you have a great shot at success using the same skills that have carried you through high school and college.
 
Now that's a fair assessment. I'd like to add that folks that attend a "Senior Military College" like The Citadel or VMI, have a similar immersion of military life.
 
Thanks... trying to keep in mind we have a lot of non-military parents out there who hear bits and pieces from various "factions" and are worried about their sons and daughters.
 
Capt MJ said:
Thanks... trying to keep in mind we have a lot of non-military parents out there who hear bits and pieces from various "factions" and are worried about their sons and daughters.
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The scuttlebutt :biggrin: ...sorry, I had too lol
 
Zaphod said:
There is a reason why USNA grads are picked on in the Fleet by non-USNA grads. I don't care what anyone says, there are more USNA wanna-be's in ROTC than the reverse, and that's because USNA is a damned sight more picky. The results are reflective of that, and the other side knows it.



I was really excited about my son getting his ROTC scholarship until I read this. Really dissapointed that he may be considered just a USNA wanna-be. I can't tell you how hurtful reading that was. It has truly bothered me since I first read it.
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Ma'am,

You should be proud of your son recieving an ROTC Scholarship no matter what- this is a HUGE accomplishment. I don't think anyone was saying that he will be seen as a USNA wanna-be; I think what everyone was saying is that this is often brought up when the NROTC v. USNA (or any other service academy) rivalries are stirred up, just as an NROTC Student could give a USNA grad a hard time for the things he missed in his/her four years of strict military life. It is all a matter of perspective and one's experience. I have recieved the NROTC Marine Corps Scholarship and I am currently awaiting a possible appointment from the Naval Academy; if it doesn't come through, I am not going to be phased by someone calling me a "USNA Wanna-be." This is just the usual friendly rivalry that comes with the military in my opinion. Obtaining a NROTC Scholarship is an absolutely noteworthy accomplishment that anybody would be proud of; getting this scholarship doesnt automatically warrant your son a "USNA Wanna-be." Name-calling will always be present in this highly competitive environment but I can say for a fact that USNA and NROTC students still have a great mutual respect; why wouldn't they? They are all fighting for the same team.

TJ
 
SRHSMOM said:
Zaphod said:
There is a reason why USNA grads are picked on in the Fleet by non-USNA grads. I don't care what anyone says, there are more USNA wanna-be's in ROTC than the reverse, and that's because USNA is a damned sight more picky. The results are reflective of that, and the other side knows it.



I was really excited about my son getting his ROTC scholarship until I read this. Really dissapointed that he may be considered just a USNA wanna-be. I can't tell you how hurtful reading that was. It has truly bothered me since I first read it.
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What a coincidence SRHSMOM, we know each other! I'll give you a hint, our sons flew together to NASS last summer and saw each other yesterday at the Congressman's office! lol

Don't let this thread get you down, I know how hard you and your son have worked and as you know, how hard we've worked on this goal. You also know how fast a medical (our son, color vision) DQ can happen to take a candidate out of the running and I sure wouldn't want my sons efforts to end up as a "USNA wanna be" His goal in life is to become a career military officer.
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Also don't forgot these are online forums where a wide of variety of people offer their opinions and thoughts. Don't get hung up on every word others write. You may have different opinions and/or experiences and none of this is a 'one size fits all' type of experience. You have to make your own decisions on what you agree or don't agree with based on all the various sources of input you should be taking advantage of.
 
SRHSMOM said:
Zaphod said:
There is a reason why USNA grads are picked on in the Fleet by non-USNA grads. I don't care what anyone says, there are more USNA wanna-be's in ROTC than the reverse, and that's because USNA is a damned sight more picky. The results are reflective of that, and the other side knows it.



I was really excited about my son getting his ROTC scholarship until I read this. Really dissapointed that he may be considered just a USNA wanna-be. I can't tell you how hurtful reading that was. It has truly bothered me since I first read it.
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I agree whole heartedly with your assessment on that post. My son researched all the different commissioning sources and decided his top choice was an AROTC scholarship to Texas A&M that he was fortunate enough to attain (both the scholarship and admission to the school). That's not to disparage any other commissioning source. Each person needs to decide the right fit for them. He has two very good friends who have applied to USNA. One of them has already received an LOA. All three of them are very happy for the others because they have each chosen the path that is best for them to achieve a commission in the Armed Forces.
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I don't TOTALLY agree.

I can't COMPLETELY agree here.

While some of the "picking" may come from wannabes. Some of that goes back and forth, joking. We do it at my work too, one of my coworkers is an USMMA grad, and one went to OCS. It's NEVER mean spirited, and it certainly isn't constant. It also occurs more with butterbars than anyone else.

Some of the picking has a little bit of history. One guy sees a "Ring-Knocker" with an ego, and associates all "Ring Knockers" as ego baring A-holes. Also, with the relative size of any of the academies, it is not hard to see classmates out "in the fleet". Maybe that closeness looks like a "club" to others. I was at the Army/Navy game last weekend, and I'll admit, as someone who went to neither West Point, nor Annapolis, when the friends get together and do all that crazy stuff academy grads do...it looks a little "good ole boys" clubbish. I have no doubt it may look the same when I'm with my classmates, and seeing both side, I don't believe anyone wants to come off that way.
 
As for my background...I went to USCGA; USNA, USMMA and NROTC were back ups because I was shooting for the Coast Guard. I've had quite a few friends go through ROTC, for Navy, Army, and Air Force. These people are great. I've had OCS friends, friends from other academies, friends from my academy, and ROTC friends...they are commissioning sources. With academies (especially the smaller ones), it will be easier to network. Each commissioning source leads to a commitment to SERVE YOUR COUNTRY.

Am I proud of where I graduated from? Yes, I think it taught me a lot, and I think I grew because of the challenges I faced, but my pride in my commissioning source in no way means that people who went to a civilian college and were in ROTC, NROTC, of AFROTC, or those who went to USMA, USNA, USAFA or USMMA should not feel the same pride in their institutions.

No matter what the commissioning source, you will serve together, as equals. An ensign is an ensign and a 2LT and a 2LT, no matter when they got those butterbars.

That's my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
 
Maximus......sorry to dissapoint you, my son did not attend NASS. He did have an interview Saturday at Weldon's but I was at work. My husband took my son....
 
SRHSMOM said:
Maximus......sorry to dissapoint you, my son did not attend NASS. He did have an interview Saturday at Weldon's but I was at work. My husband took my son....
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Not a disappointment, wrong guess. I talked with your husband at the Congressman's office.
 
SRHSMOM said:
Maximus......sorry to dissapoint you, my son did not attend NASS. He did have an interview Saturday at Weldon's but I was at work. My husband took my son....
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BTW, did he take that CGA offer?
TYIA
 
A Similar View

Many excellent posts. In my twenty years in the fleet, I worked with good, and less than good, officers from all commissioning sources. The quality of the officer was the result of that officer's work ethic, not their commissioning source.

On board three ships, I didn't see folks from any commissioning source being picked on.

BGO, University of South Carolina Navy ROTC class of '79, USNA 2007 dad, CDR USN (ret)
 
I was speaking to a rear admiral upper half a few months ago about NROTC and USNA and though he was USNA grad he said that in 30 plus years in the Navy no one ever asked him where he received his commision from. The idea is getting the commision.
 
felixbed said:
I was speaking to a rear admiral upper half a few months ago about NROTC and USNA and though he was USNA grad he said that in 30 plus years in the Navy no one ever asked him where he received his commision from. The idea is getting the commision.
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Maybe his ring was the giveaway?
 
Maybe not, he might have knocked it too many times and it is in for repairs...JOKING HERE PEOPLE NOT A SLAM.

I do agree though, the higher you get up in rank the less important the commissioning source becomes, what becomes important is the position you hold, your OPR and PRF. SA grads paid their dues very early on, even before their commission, it is how they are able to translate the lessons they learn into action as an officer that will determine their future.

I also want to say Zaphod is right in post #2.

Our DS selected the AFROTC route over the AFA (not going to get into it again), anyway, when he selected this route the det commander said they would back him if in his freshman yr he wanted to reapply(he didn't). If your DS wants to re-apply for the USNA to enjoy that experience he should. If he can be talked out of it by anyone, than he should take a long hard look at himself and see if he wants it bad enough.

Officers are great not because of their commissioning source or their education, it is how they can translate orders into action. It is how they treat the people they serve with. There are great tacticians, but that doesn't correlate into great leaders and vise a verse.

Whatever route is chosen just make sure that it is the route they want, not yours, not any leaders in his command, his and his alone. He will have to decide and live with his decision. If he is going to live the what if I went to USNA for his entire career or life, than IMHO he needs to throw his name in the hat regardless of any commander.

Good luck
 
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SRHSMOM said:
I was really excited about my son getting his ROTC scholarship until I read this. Really dissapointed that he may be considered just a USNA wanna-be. I can't tell you how hurtful reading that was. It has truly bothered me since I first read it.
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Back up a minute...

It must be aggressively stressed that, in the absence of any initial gloating, that NO ONE'S academic pedigree is considered when they first report aboard, and even if it IS (kinda hard not to), the reputation an officer develops aboard ship is based ENTIRELY on his PERFORMANCE on that ship.

Your son will not be considered a "USNA wanna-be" unless he spends his time ripping into USNA graduates. USNA graduates will not be considered pompous oafs unless they ACT like pompous oafs.

So, if your son has chosen to go to ROTC, then be proud of him and understand that how he comports himself while in the fleet will matter far more to how he is treated than where he went to school.

My comment was aimed at the percentage of ROTC types who ARE resentful of USNA grads because they didn't get it. No more, no less.

Diamonds and turds come from all sources. Make sure your boy knows to make himself a diamond. :smile:
 
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