USNA vs. NROTC

[Kgrant19]

Hello! In September I received an LOA to both USNA '23 (first choice) and USMA '23, but I am also applying to NROTC at Ohio State and University of Wisconsin. Because I did not even think that I was going to get into the academies, I always pictured myself doing NROTC. Now that I have *possibly* both options available to me I am having a tough time deciding what would be better or which I should choose. Yes, I know that none of you can tell me what to do and it has to be based on what I want, but I was just curious if any of you had advice on making this decision or if any of you have experienced NROTC or one of the academies and can give me some pros or cons to both. Im just looking for any advice at this point haha. Thanks!

 

[MidCakePa]

Biggest difference is lifestyle while in school. Do you want to live the military life seven days a week or just a few days a week?

As a USNA plebe, you’ll wear a uniform 24 hours a day, chop through the halls of Bancroft, take a fully prescribed curriculum that’s heavy on STEM, and be free to leave the Yard only on Saturdays. As an NROTC plebe, you’ll don a uniform on a few select days, walk leisurely like your classmates, take a wider range of classes, and be able to start your weekend festivities on Thursday night.

In either case, you’ll graduate and become an ENS or 2LT. From USNA, except for extenuating circumstances, you’ll go into the unrestricted line. From NROTC, you can go unrestricted or restricted. After about six months, the difference between officers from one source or another is virtually nil. Their careers progress pretty comparably, from job performance to when officers leave the service to who makes flag rank.

So again, back to lifestyle: How do you want to spend the next four years?

 

[TrueBlue88]

I agree with almost all MidCakePa said. The only issue I would take is I have often heard that once 6 months to a year in, there is little difference between the USNA and NROTC pathways. However, if you are considering a full military career, there may be a longer term difference. In the USNA Sup’s talk at Johns Hopkins, he cited 2014 statistics for Naval officer ascension. USNA grads supplied approximately 30% of all Naval URL officers, but accounted for ~40% of Captains, ~60% of 2 star select level, ~75% of 3 stars, and 80-90% of 4 star flag level officers. He acknowledges that this is not the only measure of success in the Navy but it sure is a tangible one.

I am not sure of the reason for this disparity. Could it be that those choosing to attend the Academy also more often choose longer military careers? Are they more efficient in rising through the ranks? Or is there another reason to account for this difference? These statistics also don’t seem to support the thought that all roads leading to a commission are equal. Of course, these are general stats and ultimate success is mostly up to each individual.

 

[jebdad]

I agree with almost all MidCakePA said but I would add that at least at USMA vs AROTC, a huge difference is the amount of training a cadet does vs AROTC both during the school year and in the summer. My cadet has rarely been home in the summer due to training and other opportunities/responsibilities. Her AROTC friends haven't had nearly the level/volume of training. AROTC also have typically had a greater amount of time off in the summer. Another point to consider is the volume of special interaction or exposure that exists at the academies. Nearly every week there is some type of event, speech, foreign dignitary, etc. That doesn't happen at that level at State U.

 

[NavyHoops]

Pick the one that best suits you. The happier you are, the more it feels like ‘home’, and meets your objectives the happier and more successful you will be. Other posters have gave some great advice. 24 x 7 vs 2-4 x week. Each ROTC unit has their own schedules and some are more intensive than others. Also it depends on how much you want to get involved. To be honest... you get what you want out of both programs. The more you put in it the more you get out of it. Do you want more a traditional college experience? Do the SAs have the Major your want? Does the USMC interest you at all? At USNA you have until 1/C year to put down your list. NROTC you have to pick during the application process. USNA is very small class sizes where you could have 200+ in Chem 101 in college. USNA you are exposed to Navy and Marine Corps Officers and Senior Enlisted. I believe USNA gets the edge on summer training as it just presents more opportunities. But ROTC would give you more flexibility to pursue other internships and passions. Heck at this week alone I saw Gerard Butler, Roger Staubach and Admiral Mullen, retired, were on the yard. Not to mention all the other lectures, interactions, exposure you get in character development, Forrestall Lectures, etc. But if living in a 24 x 7 immersive environment sounds horrible, you won’t thrive there. Visit all of them if possible. Pick what is best for you.

 

[usna1985]

Another thing to consider based on the civilian schools you are considering . . . they are both HUGE schools with a very, very large undergrad population. SAs have about 4400 students; OSU and UW have about 40,000 undergrads. That can be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint.

Obviously, large schools have many more activities, majors, courses, profs, fraternities/sororities, etc. They also typically have larger class sizes (lecture classes) and it can be harder to stand out, not just be "a number" or get lost in the shuffle.

Finally, most civilian schools let you live off campus, especially after your first year. That's not permitted (obviously) at USNA.

For the OP, it might help if you raised specific questions, issues, concerns, etc. about SAs -- things that you are considering as you weigh your decision.

 

[boatsfordays]

From our experience your 4 years at USNA are very different from any NROTC program. There is a very valid reason for the N*OT COLLEGE logo. I did not really understand that until my kid was a plebe. I remember standing there on I-day and watching them swear in. It hit me like a cold glass of water that my kid wasn't just a student, he was a midshipman in the Navy and the assignment for the next 4 years was to become educated and complete military indoctrination. As a plebe your every moment of your day is accounted for by multiple chains of command. My mid missed big sister's wedding because leave wasn't an option. (that would not have been an issue at a traditional college) You have to want the USNA experience so bad you can taste it, because once you get your phone back after plebe summer you will see your hs buddies (even those who go ROTC) living a very different life than that of a midshipman. You have to want it and be willing to sacrifice "the traditional college experience". The payoff is huge, the relationships you build are priceless but can't be compared to anywhere else.

My mid did a candidate visit weekend and spent time with the NROTC scholarship school unit as well in order to make a well informed decision.

 

[USN SWO ret]

It comes down to what you think will fit you best: structure, goals, type of campus, location, size, academics, extra-curriculars, etc. DS's initial plan was to attend USNA as "Plan A" and NROTC as "Plan B". After a week of NASS, those plans reversed. DS decided he values his free time and did not want as much structure. The choice is yours based on what you want and need.

 

[MidCakePa]

There is a very valid reason for the N*OT COLLEGE logo.

+1 to @boatsfordays. Mids wear the N*OT COLLEGE t-shirts and sweatshirts usually with pride, maybe sometimes with disdain. But it says it all. Standing in T-Court on I-Day as the candidates swore their oath, seeing photos from Plebe Summer, and now getting occasional reports directly from my mid — this is most definitely not college! It’s the Naval Academy and that’s not just a semantic distinction.

 

[OldRetSWO]

While I agree that in terms of post-graduation service, the value of commissions from USNA and NROTC are pretty close but from the standpoint of post-military value, there is no comparison between the two. While there might be some significant value to a UW or OSU degree within those states, the large degree of respect and awe that employers, especially big companies hold for USNA and USMA is a huge advantage. Just about every graduate will leave the service and seek civilian employment at some point and the Service Academy degree on the resume is a big deal.

 

[Kgrant19]

It comes down to what you think will fit you best: structure, goals, type of campus, location, size, academics, extra-curriculars, etc. DS's initial plan was to attend USNA as "Plan A" and NROTC as "Plan B". After a week of NASS, those plans reversed. DS decided he values his free time and did not want as much structure. The choice is yours based on what you want and need.

That is exactly how I am feeling, I went to summer seminar this past summer and I realized how structured it actually was. Then I looked more into it and talked with mids that I knew there and I am just really at a loss. Everyone tells me that I am just overthinking it now that I am in, but I don't know haha

 

[Capt MJ]

While I agree that in terms of post-graduation service, the value of commissions from USNA and NROTC are pretty close but from the standpoint of post-military value, there is no comparison between the two. While there might be some significant value to a UW or OSU degree within those states, the large degree of respect and awe that employers, especially big companies hold for USNA and USMA is a huge advantage. Just about every graduate will leave the service and seek civilian employment at some point and the Service Academy degree on the resume is a big deal.

I agree, with the small caveat that some companies are clueless about SAs. We’ve had a couple of our USNA sponsor alumni get asked by employer HR if the SA was considered a college degree or was it just “military classes.”

If SA grads take advantage of the Service Academy Career Conference (SACC) and career transition events/services/organizations geared to degreed veterans, there is no problem. There is a vast network of SA grads who look out for their own and other SA grads.

A USNA ‘09 sponsor alum of ours was recently hired for a healthy 6 figures and good bennies by a prestigious NYC financial firm, and it was due in no small part to the USMMA grad exec and NROTC active USNR captain (O-6) exec who saw the resume go by and knew what the alum brought to the table. The alum had left AD and used her GI Bill to get an MBA with HR concentration from a well-known-name grad school,
. AD time included time as Training O, Admin O, collateral Legal O, along with normal JO Warfare skills. The alum is well-mentored by those execs. The alum has joined the company’s internal veteran group and is also mentoring.

In general, the military veterans look after each other, but that special bond does come into play for SA grads.

 

[5centsmom]

Visit, as mentioned above. Your future is worth the cost. And I’ll add that with the addition of pre-college NROTC indoc training now happening the NROTC military experience is more in line with other indoc experiences (with the added bonus of Gunnery Sgts). DS is a Sea Badger, and it’s a terrific unit with great spirit. I would deviate from the above posts this way: NROTC isn’t just about getting the traditional college experience or being military part-time (especially not this). You’ll be balancing time demanding civilian classwork, independent life stuff (laundry, foraging for food, etc), while putting in 20 hours/week in at the Armory (PT workouts, military science classes, unit duties, unit projects, in unit required study hours, unit clubs, etc-all mandatory). But you won’t have a prescribed schedule every minute: you’ll have to work it out. You’re not a loner in NROTC at all as there’s Amazing Amounts of support and guidance, just more independent decision making. UW is an amazing science & engineering univ., and Madison is a heckuva lot more fun (only talking about good clean fun here, tho honestly DS uses his free time to sleep) than Columbus or Annapolis (i’m a former OH and MD resident). It’s worth your serious consideration. But USNA is a very special and unique experience. Lucky you: it IS a tough choice.

 

[justdoit19]

Good discussion already. I’ll add more. DS received NROTC and USNA pretty early in the process. He initially was all in NROTC. We are non military fam sans one uncle, retired AF reserves Colonel (who attended AFROTC through the same college as DS was headed for NROTC). DS spoke with him during Thanksgiving. Uncle pointed out 2 points to think about: leadership development, and the caliber of classmates/student body at USNA. He was very pro-USNA despite personally attending AFROTC.

Fast forward to current Plebe year, and what uncle was talking about is quite clear. A SA is a whole leadership bubble. Everyone attending is developing their/others leadership for 4 years. The whole place is committed to developing future leaders. This is not the case at regular college. And just LOOK at the leaders that have come from USNA (see above for who has hung out on the yard lately. DS met and has talked to Roger Staubach, Admirals, AND Medal of Honor recipients, beyond others in his short 8 weeks as a Mid). The place oozes leadership!

And to uncles other point, DS’s whole school student body is made up of students focused on the same goal. Which he believes makes it easier in a sense for him, bc he doesn’t have to make decisions/choices that his friends attending regular college do. He doesn’t have to decide about whether to go to the college party his friends are attending (complete with underage drinking) or not. At USNA, all his friends are doing the same thing. Much less pressure in the sense that all his friends are in the same boat. With the same goal. And everyone supports that same common goal. The entire school is made up of exceptional students (always a bad apple, but generalizing a point about the caliber
Is student it takes to obtain an appointment here). That is not the case at regular college/NROTC, a student body of 30k where DS was looking to go.

The intangibles are also important. As I looked back on DS’s first month of the academic year, he had participated in Senator McCains private burial on the yard, met Medal of Honor Recipients, talked and got a picture with Roger Staubach, marched through the streets of Annapolis for home football games, where people line the street to see them (and captured on tv...that was cool for mom!), participated in brigade wide 9/11 memorials, was part of Honor Flight reception at the airport (a very moving highlight), and is treated as almost a celebrity in the area (people have
given up their spots in line, paid for his meals, asked to take a selfie with him when out and about). NONE of those are
things we ever could have
Imagined would be part of his student life, and in only his first month. Up next is the commissioning of the next new Navy ship there on the Yard.

DS knows he chose right for him. But he was all NROTC at
this point last year. As others have stated, visit, visit, visit. Talk to people who have gone both routes. Think about what they say, and also what they DONT say. Think about which route will help you achieve your goals, and how to beat get you there. Also think about the kind of life you want. I added thing that we discovered about USNA choice that we hadn’t really thought about: the leadership bubble, and student body makeup. And congrats for having to make this decision! Will be interested to hear what you decide!

 

[Kgrant19]

Good discussion already. I’ll add more. DS received NROTC and USNA pretty early in the process. He initially was all in NROTC. We are non military fam sans one uncle, retired AF reserves Colonel (who attended AFROTC through the same college as DS was headed for NROTC). DS spoke with him during Thanksgiving. Uncle pointed out 2 points to think about: leadership development, and the caliber of classmates/student body at USNA. He was very pro-USNA despite personally attending AFROTC.

Fast forward to current Plebe year, and what uncle was talking about is quite clear. A SA is a whole leadership bubble. Everyone attending is developing their/others leadership for 4 years. The whole place is committed to developing future leaders. This is not the case at regular college. And just LOOK at the leaders that have come from USNA (see above for who has hung out on the yard lately. DS met and has talked to Roger Staubach, Admirals, AND Medal of Honor recipients, beyond others in his short 8 weeks as a Mid). The place oozes leadership!

And to uncles other point, DS’s whole school student body is made up of students focused on the same goal. Which he believes makes it easier in a sense for him, bc he doesn’t have to make decisions/choices that his friends attending regular college do. He doesn’t have to decide about whether to go to the college party his friends are attending (complete with underage drinking) or not. At USNA, all his friends are doing the same thing. Much less pressure in the sense that all his friends are in the same boat. With the same goal. And everyone supports that same common goal. The entire school is made up of exceptional students (always a bad apple, but generalizing a point about the caliber
Is student it takes to obtain an appointment here). That is not the case at regular college/NROTC, a student body of 30k where DS was looking to go.

The intangibles are also important. As I looked back on DS’s first month of the academic year, he had participated in Senator McCains private burial on the yard, met Medal of Honor Recipients, talked and got a picture with Roger Staubach, marched through the streets of Annapolis for home football games, where people line the street to see them (and captured on tv...that was cool for mom!), participated in brigade wide 9/11 memorials, was part of Honor Flight reception at the airport (a very moving highlight), and is treated as almost a celebrity in the area (people have
given up their spots in line, paid for his meals, asked to take a selfie with him when out and about). NONE of those are
things we ever could have
Imagined would be part of his student life, and in only his first month. Up next is the commissioning of the next new Navy ship there on the Yard.

DS knows he chose right for him. But he was all NROTC at
this point last year. As others have stated, visit, visit, visit. Talk to people who have gone both routes. Think about what they say, and also what they DONT say. Think about which route will help you achieve your goals, and how to beat get you there. Also think about the kind of life you want. I added thing that we discovered about USNA choice that we hadn’t really thought about: the leadership bubble, and student body makeup. And congrats for having to make this decision! Will be interested to hear what you decide!

Honestly, this is exactly what I needed to hear. This was probably the most helpful advice I’ve gotten thus far. It was nice for you to share what your son has experienced and what he went though when making the decision! I’m pretty much going through the exact thing he went through, I was set on ROTC, but hearing all of this advice my decision is starting to change. Thank you so much!

 

[justdoit19]

Another thing he and I recently discussed: there is a saying at USNA. C’s get degrees. I’ll expand upon that a bit.

You are there to graduate. The professors, upperclass, tutoring, academic support...it is all there for YOU to GRADUATE. C’s get degrees. The support is there for you to graduate in 47 months. Period.

Contrast that with DS’s big bro, who is at regular college, managing regular college life (parties, laundry, food prep, oversleeping....). Checking out occasionally bc he can ( you can’t at USNA). Big bro is competing against the rest of the student body and their GPA’s for internships and jobs. C’s may get a degree, but nothing beyond that.

What I’m trying to point out is that once you are at the academy, you are in. And set to graduate as long as you do your part. You can choose to be that academic superstar and forego activities, or you can relax a little and do more of the fun stuff and aim for “c’s”. In that sense, the stress is a little less than at regular college. If that makes sense? DS’s opinion at this point is he feels the structure and set up of the academy is actually less stressful overall in this sense than at regular college. It’s more on your OWN shoulders to succeed and do the right thing at regular college than at USNA, where everyone is more in it together. This is his opinion based upon how things are going for him personally vs big bro. And I think it’s spot on.

Again, it all depends upon your own personality. But being surrounded by an entire community of like minded students, advisories, mentors, friends (even enemies) and teachers is pretty cool.

And while he is seeing stuff his friends are doing at regular college on social media, he also is snap chatting PRETTY COOL STUFF that his friends would love to do!

My last piece of advice is to make your decision for you...not anyone else. Don’t choose for the wrong reason. Feel free to message me if you would like! Routing for you! You cannot go wrong with either choice.

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

Check out this old thread I started a few years ago, as it relates: https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...g-rotc-scholarship-over-sa.33261/#post-324580

As a follow up to this, my DD did end up getting both the NROTC and AROTC scholarships and pulled her academy applications. She went through NROTC at Notre Dame and loved her experience there. She loved the sports team experiences, being an RA, involvement in her NROTC detachment, her classes, etc. She is now stationed in San Diego, CA. She told me she had no regrets of not going to an academy and would make the same choice again. In the meantime, we have a son, who also applied for AROTC and NROTC Scholarships and USNA and USMA. He got both scholarships and appointments to both academies. He chose to go to USMA , where he is now a Firstie and he loves it there and also has no regrets. Just as our DD could not see herself going to an academy in the end, our DS felt the academy was best for him. It will take some soul searching for you, and only you can make the decision that is right for you.

 

[MidCakePa]

@USMAROTCFamily, great post. To paraphrase: Follow your heart. (Not your family’s or friends’ aspirations, or any supposed glamor or glitz or prestige or romance or what have you.)

 

[Azzurri]

Good morning all, first go on the forum ...
DS is applying to both USNA and NROTC.. in regards to NROTC, is there a suggested way to apply (preference list) for your 5 schools of choice (first choice, reach schools, safety schools in regards to GPA and SAT results) ?

Thx

 

[kinnem]

Well I'm sure you'll get differing opinions on that. I would list the schools in one's personal order of preference. Period. OK, make sure one of them is a safety school and of course one has to be an in-state public, as I recall.