USNA vs. USMA

Always list your first choice as your first choice... but be happy with your second.


I put in for two 378's on the east coast coming out of CGA.... my top pick which had 4-6 billets listed ended up only have one spot. The second pick only had a few openings. I got my third pick, a 210' out of NJ. It had been my #1 initally, but because I had been on two 210's as a cadet, I wanted to try something new.

That said, I ONLY listed what I wanted, and as the billet openings changed, that left the three spots on my 210' for me and my two classmates.


List what you want and force them to say no.
 
A little newer info on Marine selection out of USNA...

-My class commissioned 267 Marines out of 1099 graduates. That's roughly 24%. I would expect (as in, I don't know) that this is probably the high water mark for a while. The Marine Corps is drawing down. This has already impacted officer recruiting for PLC and OCC significantly and I would imagine that this will eventually carry over to USNA, especially since we don't get that many Marines from the Academy percentage-wise.

-Yes, USMA gets better small unit tactical training than we do. SIGNIFICANTLY better. I'll admit being pretty jealous of USMA's training opportunities as a MIDN. The opportunities for prospective Marines or SEALs at USNA, like combat arms team or infantry skills team, are limited to a small number of mids.
Summer training opens up some different things, but at the same time is limited in focus because USNA wants mids to be well-rounded and make educated decisions come service selection.

All that being said, you are not at a competitive disadvantage come TBS as far as infantry skills. I was a little nervous about this coming in because I was not one of the high-speed CAT/IST types and, frankly, didn't remember a whole lot from Leatherneck.
The guys coming out of USMC OCC/PLC or NROTC-MO are all on your level, the exceptions being some of the priors. They don't get in depth into tactics at OCS or NROTC either, so you are all, in a sense, equally worthless. You will learn enough at TBS and the Infantry Officers' Course.

With regards to service selection at USNA...you get what you work for. Saying that "needs of the service" dictates is both true and not true. At the end of the day, they won't stretch the numbers to give you a Marine slot, or Med School slot, or whatever if the numbers aren't there.
But the odds of you getting your first choice are very high, and largely dependent on you. Diminishing Marine numbers from USNA I'm sure are intimidating to incoming MIDN/candidates, but if you go in knowing what the expectations are and exceed them, you have little to worry about. Obviously it's easy for me to say that being a grad who "slipped through the cracks" in the big-Marine-select years, but still.
 
i feel as though those that go to the naval academy are very focused on the technology while west point focuses more on the training and leadership development. although both schools enforce leadership, I feel like west point emphasizes it more heavily.
 
Minsauce said:
i feel as though those that go to the naval academy are very focused on the technology while west point focuses more on the training and leadership development. although both schools enforce leadership, I feel like west point emphasizes it more heavily.
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And you base this on your vast experience from what? :confused:
 
LITS, thanks for the input on that.

Hurricane12, thanks for all the info on the Corps.

kinnem, I think maybe Minsauce wrote that because any outsider could easily guess that because USNA is always considered the "technology" academy, since all at USNA take so many math and science classes and they have more engineering and technology majors than West Point. But I don`t get the leadership claims.
 
Alice19 said:
LITS, thanks for the input on that.

Hurricane12, thanks for all the info on the Corps.

kinnem, I think maybe Minsauce wrote that because any outsider could easily guess that because USNA is always considered the "technology" academy, since all at USNA take so many math and science classes and they have more engineering and technology majors than West Point. But I don`t get the leadership claims.
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Yeah, it was the leadership claim i was referring to.
 
Alice19 said:
kinnem, I think maybe Minsauce wrote that because any outsider could easily guess that because USNA is always considered the "technology" academy, since all at USNA take so many math and science classes and they have more engineering and technology majors than West Point. But I don`t get the leadership claims.
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As an outsider, having never attended either USMA or USNA, I've found the cadets from West Point to be a little sounder in the leadership department than the midshipmen from the Naval Academy. Midshipmen come off as sloppy at times, and I haven't interacted with many midshipmen who struck me as "getting it". That said, I have a number of midshipmen friends who I respect and I think will be fine leaders. I was just more impressed with the West Point exchange cadets we got than the USNA midshipmen (that has extended beyond graduation).
 
LineInTheSand said:
As an outsider, having never attended either USMA or USNA, I've found the cadets from West Point to be a little sounder in the leadership department than the midshipmen from the Naval Academy. Midshipmen come off as sloppy at times, and I haven't interacted with many midshipmen who struck me as "getting it". That said, I have a number of midshipmen friends who I respect and I think will be fine leaders. I was just more impressed with the West Point exchange cadets we got than the USNA midshipmen (that has extended beyond graduation).
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Everything at USMA is geared toward making cadets into platoon leaders, with an emphasis on leading infantry platoons. There is little accomadation given to those who want to be pilots, or intel officers, or signal officers. That is a good thing in many respects. The bulk of the focus is on leading a platoon of 30-50 people in a direct and engaged manner, i.e. "from the front." Even for those who don't end up in the infantry, the results are tangible and translate to solid small unit leadership skills.

The new commandant will likely reinforce that mantra to a high degree, given his background. I would expect the underclasses to benefit greatly.
 
If you want another option for a Marine Commission you might want to check out the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy website. Each year USMMA Midshipmen receive Marine Commissions at graduation. In addition, there are always some who receive commissions in the US Army as well. So...options, folks...options. At graduation ceremonies at Kings Point I have seen Air Force, marine, Army and Navy Commissions along with Merchant Service.

Options abound. However, one must always remember the mission of the US Merchant Marine Academy to to graduate Merchant Seaman. Saying that...my KP grad son is a recent Naval Lt. Cmdr selectee. So....worth checking out.
 
I think part of the reason that USNA may not seem as leadership focused is because grads go on to so many different things. I'm sure different branches and units in the Army have different cultures and personalities, but I would be surprised if it were as diverse as those between options to USNA grads.
Teaching Marine-centric leadership at USNA to every mid doesn't make much sense if less than 25% of the class goes Marine Corps and the rest are divided up relatively equally between submarines, aviation, and surface Navy. All of the Navy line options have very different cultures from both each other and the Marine Corps.
Those different personalities get exhibited by company/batt officers, instructors, and the leadership (and Dant/Supe are rarely/never Marines) and get either emulated or rejected by mids based on what they think personally fits them better and where they want to be. There's not the singular focus that scoutpilot is talking about in his post.

(I do think it's a little ironic that people think USNA doesn't enforce leadership skills considering that the guys who go SWO get their divisions and have to lead Sailors immediately after graduation without any follow on training.)
 
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