gavigane14
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Same thing happened to me. I was a principal nominee and was wait listed.
USNA Wait List–Information?
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usna1985
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I've never heard of this happening (although in our area all MOCs use competitive slates). I would follow up with both your RD and your MOC on Monday. You can contact your BGO but he/she probably don't have any insight into what happened. Your BGO can separately contact Admissions but likely will get the same answer as you do.
I agree with the person on the other thread who suggested the most likely explanations are either that the MOC didn't submit the slate with you as the principal nominee (either accidentally, change of heart, used wrong terminology, or some other reason) or that USNA didn't record it properly.
I'm sure there could be another explanation but can't think of one.
I agree with the person on the other thread who suggested the most likely explanations are either that the MOC didn't submit the slate with you as the principal nominee (either accidentally, change of heart, used wrong terminology, or some other reason) or that USNA didn't record it properly.
I'm sure there could be another explanation but can't think of one.
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While a miscommunication somehow between candidate, MOC, and/or Naval Academy seems most likely, it seem less so when you consider the same thing happened to 4 people just on this forum.
I am curious to hear the outcome. Hope it works out for these candidates!
I am curious to hear the outcome. Hope it works out for these candidates!
That doesn't make sense. My senator has three open spots. I know that two of the appointees were "primary" nominees because I know one of them personally and I met the other on this board. So how is it that two of the appointees are "primary" nominees yet my DS who is also a "primary" nominee not appointed. I don't think there is a difference and if you read on the other thread or the two quoted posts on my post, two other candidates with the same problem were "principle" nominees.
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My DS received a waitlist TWE. In the letter admissions stated that this years class size would be 1,175. They also added that approximately 1,300 offers of appointment were sent out. USNA received the most applications it had ever received this year (over 18,000).
What is interesting is... past years saw 1,500 offers sent with a class size of 1,200. This meant that over 300 had to decline before the waitlist was used. This year only 125 have to decline to use the waitlist. This looks to favor those on the waitlist. Or am I wrong?
How many receive appointments from the waitlist each year?
The letter also states that between 70 and 120 are on the waitlist each year.
What is interesting is... past years saw 1,500 offers sent with a class size of 1,200. This meant that over 300 had to decline before the waitlist was used. This year only 125 have to decline to use the waitlist. This looks to favor those on the waitlist. Or am I wrong?
How many receive appointments from the waitlist each year?
The letter also states that between 70 and 120 are on the waitlist each year.
For everyone who is so wrapped up on nominations, please go back and read the letters that you received from Senators/MOCs. Sen Schatz used the competitive method of nomination and blatantly states that USNA will make appointments from the list. Nothing about primary/principle or whatever. Rep Hanabusa used principal with numbered alternates. Her letter to you indicates where you are on this list. Sen Hirono said that she was informed DS already had some form of a MOC nom so she wouldn't duplicate nominations. She failed to do this for 12 others kids she nominated if you look at all the press releases. With this being said you don't know who appointees are charged to at this point. My DS had 3 different USNA nominations. Another one of Sen Schatz' nominations is a foundation candidate and pretty much guaranteed acceptance, but he also has 2 nominating sources.
I know this forum is a place to make people feel better and try to get more information. If your child didn't get USNA, but got one of the other academies be grateful! If they really want to be a Naval Officer then they can cross commission. If your child got a ROTC scholarship then be happy with that. They will get a true college experience and still easily be able to become a Naval Officer in 4 years. I'd try to stop saying that the Academies made a mistake in their selection process. I'm sure there are official people who troll these boards and will be able to add character statements from your posts to your child's packet for the next time they apply.
WithYou2018
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So, what you are suggesting is that people cower away from doing the right thing for the right reasons? Say nothing? That's not what I want to see from a future officer.
Sorry, but I don't have dim regard for academy staff. Yes, they probably don't like mistakes made public, but I believe their sense of honor holds them above what you suggest may be their reaction. Yes, they have clearly errored, likely for all of the right reasons. They are quite aware of their mistakes, and just as they would do, they understand candidates and their parents fighting for what is right. I can't imagine them feeling any other way. I trust they'll work with the MOC's to fix this mess, then move forward. You must feel the same way, or why would you want your DD or DS to attend there? My belief in them is why I agree with my sons application.
This is what is written on the letter my DS received,
Dear Mr. XXXXXX,
I am pleased to inform you that based on the recommendation of my Military Academy Screening Committee, you have been selected as our primary nominee to the United States Naval Academy and also as a nominee to the United States Air Force Academy and the United States Military Academy. The Academy will make an Offer of Appointment and will notify you directly if you are appointed. We are proud to announce that you have also been chosen.
I am confident that your dedication and academic discipline will serve you well in the Academy and in your future pursuits.
If you wish to decline this appointment, please contact Ms. XXXXX XXXXXXXX at (808) XXXXXXX. This will allow other students to be offered this opportunity.
Congratulations on your primary nomination and best wishes for a successful career ahead.
Aloha,
Brian Schatz
UNITED STATES SENATE
Also I will quote specific paragraphs from Title 10 U.S. Code § 4342 - Cadets: appointment; numbers, territorial distribution:
Each Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress, including the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico, is entitled to nominate 10 persons for each vacancy that is available to him under this section. Nominees may be submitted without ranking or with a principal candidate and 9 ranked or unranked alternates. Qualified nominees not selected for appointment under this subsection shall be considered qualified alternates for the purposes of selection under other provisions of this chapter.
No where does it say that Senator Schatz used a competitive slate. It does state on his website that receiving a nomination is competitive. Yes it does say the USNA will make the appointment but look at the next sentence. It says DS was chosen. Yes we are happy DS got into USAFA but that wasn't his first choice. So what now?
Its easy to say that DS should be happy for this or that. But when he is told by the MOC he is going to USNA and his heart and mind is dedicated to that fact and now tell him "I am sorry you are wait listed. You should be happy you are on the wait list." Sorry that doesn't sit well with me as his father nor should it sit well with anyone else. Based on your statement you are telling me that the Senator's word means nothing and that the nomination means nothing. It's easy to say that when you are on the other side. I have taught my kids to respect people's word and to hold them accountable to that. So again with that said what should be done. Let me guess, be happy you made it to the waitlist even though you were number 1 on the Senator's list and qualified.
WithYou2018
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808DAD,
So disappointing to hear. I think I will visit my MOC office in the AM. Somehow, a telephone call no longer seems appropriate.
Totally different from what DS received. Impressive that one senator gave your DS nominations to all 3 academies. For here that's pretty unheard of. I'm thinking that some cutting and pasting didn't happen correctly. It seems odd that he'd rank for one opening at USNA, but do competitive for another. If I had to guess I'd say your DS was ranked for USAFA where he got the appointment and competitive at USNA and USMA. I understand your frustration now. So sorry to hear.
We thought the same thing about USAFA but no he was on a competitive slate for USAFA and USMA. I called the MOC Staffer in charge today. She specifically stated that he was the primary nomination for Naval Academy and only can guess why he was wait listed. I also called the Naval Admissions office today and she also stated the same thing that DS was listed as the primary nomination but was unable to explain to my satisfaction why he was placed on the wait list when based on the law I sited on my prior post he should have gotten the appointment.
WithYou2018
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Great Reference...only the facts.
Here is a link to the congressional guide to service academy nominations. Below the link to the PDF format document is text I have extracted specific to earlier discussions regarding the type of nominations and the Naval Academy's US Code Title X mandate required actions. Footnoting with references are included in the document.
Good Reading.
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33213.pdf
“Nominees may be submitted in three categories: without ranking, with a principal candidate and nine ranked alternates, or with a principal candidate and nine unranked alternates. When the Member specifies a principal candidate, that individual will be appointed to a DOD academy as long as he or she meets all other admission criteria. If the principal candidate is disqualified, the service academies will appoint the first fully qualified, ranked alternate, if specified by the Member. In circumstances where Members do not specify a principal candidate or ranked alternates, one individual from among the Member’s nominees who is found to be fully qualified will be appointed by the academies to serve as a cadet.”
Here is a link to the congressional guide to service academy nominations. Below the link to the PDF format document is text I have extracted specific to earlier discussions regarding the type of nominations and the Naval Academy's US Code Title X mandate required actions. Footnoting with references are included in the document.
Good Reading.
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33213.pdf
“Nominees may be submitted in three categories: without ranking, with a principal candidate and nine ranked alternates, or with a principal candidate and nine unranked alternates. When the Member specifies a principal candidate, that individual will be appointed to a DOD academy as long as he or she meets all other admission criteria. If the principal candidate is disqualified, the service academies will appoint the first fully qualified, ranked alternate, if specified by the Member. In circumstances where Members do not specify a principal candidate or ranked alternates, one individual from among the Member’s nominees who is found to be fully qualified will be appointed by the academies to serve as a cadet.”
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Staying Positive
I hope the questions about principal nominations all get worked out quickly. I can't imagine the anguish of being in that situation.
Very proud of DS for having made it this far, and he is committed to reapplying; we have encouraged him to move on to Plan B. Still, I can't help but think about possibilities. If my math is right, for Classes of 2015-2017 about 13.5% of those offered appointments to USNA declined. For Class of 2018 appointments offered to date, that would be 175. USNA has, to date, offered 125 more appointments than there are seats in the class. So it seems reasonable to assume that approximately 50 on the wait list will be offered appointments.
I hope the questions about principal nominations all get worked out quickly. I can't imagine the anguish of being in that situation.
Very proud of DS for having made it this far, and he is committed to reapplying; we have encouraged him to move on to Plan B. Still, I can't help but think about possibilities. If my math is right, for Classes of 2015-2017 about 13.5% of those offered appointments to USNA declined. For Class of 2018 appointments offered to date, that would be 175. USNA has, to date, offered 125 more appointments than there are seats in the class. So it seems reasonable to assume that approximately 50 on the wait list will be offered appointments.
For Primary/Principle Nominees on the Wait List
I went to my Senator's office today to speak to the staffer in charge of Military Academy Nominations Committee. She was very informative and apologetic in what happened regarding my DS so for all who want to know this is what was told to me:
In October of last year candidates that got their applications in became part of the Early Action Program. The program is for any student that completes their application prior to a certain date in October. Those students are eligible to be appointed between December to March. After March the students appointed were candidates that got their applications after the EAP date. EAP students needed to have qualified in all three stages to be appointed. If the EAP candidate is in competition with another EAP candidate and one of those candidates has a primary/principle nomination then the candidate with the primary nomination would get the appointment. If the EAP candidate's competition are all EAP nominees but none are primary then the Admissions board will chose. In my DS case his application did not go in until late November. He wanted to make sure he had the perfect essay before submitting it. Also when the Admissions board looked at the applications available at the time my DS application was on hold because of a medical remedial which was settled several weeks later making him fully qualified with a primary nomination. So because of timing and being fully qualified with a nomination, didn't matter what type and since my DS was not 3Q yet, the EAP candidate received the first slot available by our Senator. Now for the second slot. Well thanks to great minds, people upstairs decided that a redistricting should occur this year. It commonly doesn't effect my state but for some reason because of POTUS budget cuts my state was affected. This now causes my Senator to lose a slot so from two slots he now goes down to one which was already taken by the EAP candidate and my DS ends up on the waitlist. The sad thing is that the Early Action Program was never mentioned during any of the Military Academy Admissions meeting and also it was always stated that Naval Academy was a rolling application which meant it didn't matter when your application went in as long its in before 1-31. My DS and family was invited to this years Military Academy Admissions to formally receive his appointment to USAFA. I will make sure next years candidates will know about the EAP program and what could happen.
So the positive things I heard:
Very few appointees have taken their appointment at this time. Wait listed candidates should find out by mid-May especially if you are a primary/principle nominee. My DS still has a very good chance to get in and he has an appointment to USAFA which I thought would be harder to get because of the amount of applicants choosing USAFA over USNA in my state. So if he does get an appointment to USNA he will decide which one is the best fit for him. Hopefully this ordeal will not bitter his taste for USNA.
I went to my Senator's office today to speak to the staffer in charge of Military Academy Nominations Committee. She was very informative and apologetic in what happened regarding my DS so for all who want to know this is what was told to me:
In October of last year candidates that got their applications in became part of the Early Action Program. The program is for any student that completes their application prior to a certain date in October. Those students are eligible to be appointed between December to March. After March the students appointed were candidates that got their applications after the EAP date. EAP students needed to have qualified in all three stages to be appointed. If the EAP candidate is in competition with another EAP candidate and one of those candidates has a primary/principle nomination then the candidate with the primary nomination would get the appointment. If the EAP candidate's competition are all EAP nominees but none are primary then the Admissions board will chose. In my DS case his application did not go in until late November. He wanted to make sure he had the perfect essay before submitting it. Also when the Admissions board looked at the applications available at the time my DS application was on hold because of a medical remedial which was settled several weeks later making him fully qualified with a primary nomination. So because of timing and being fully qualified with a nomination, didn't matter what type and since my DS was not 3Q yet, the EAP candidate received the first slot available by our Senator. Now for the second slot. Well thanks to great minds, people upstairs decided that a redistricting should occur this year. It commonly doesn't effect my state but for some reason because of POTUS budget cuts my state was affected. This now causes my Senator to lose a slot so from two slots he now goes down to one which was already taken by the EAP candidate and my DS ends up on the waitlist. The sad thing is that the Early Action Program was never mentioned during any of the Military Academy Admissions meeting and also it was always stated that Naval Academy was a rolling application which meant it didn't matter when your application went in as long its in before 1-31. My DS and family was invited to this years Military Academy Admissions to formally receive his appointment to USAFA. I will make sure next years candidates will know about the EAP program and what could happen.
So the positive things I heard:
Very few appointees have taken their appointment at this time. Wait listed candidates should find out by mid-May especially if you are a primary/principle nominee. My DS still has a very good chance to get in and he has an appointment to USAFA which I thought would be harder to get because of the amount of applicants choosing USAFA over USNA in my state. So if he does get an appointment to USNA he will decide which one is the best fit for him. Hopefully this ordeal will not bitter his taste for USNA.
Aveon
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808DAD, The reason I have been stalking this thread lately is because I, too, know a USNA principal nominee that this is happening to, and my own DS has gone through something similar. But I must say, I am really confused by what you were told...I have read and reread what you wrote and your MOC rep's answers just cause to raise more questions in my mind, then provide answers.
First, at the federal level, redistricting within a state only affects US representative seats (and those academy nominations/slots thereof) - NOT US senatorial seats, which will always be a constant 2 senator seats per state (5 respective academy slots per senator).
Therefore, the US senators will always have the US service academy slots open/or filled, that they actually have open/or filled- IOW's redistricting would not affect the number of slots that your nominating US senator has to fill.
With that, I question how your senator's second slot/slate disappeared within what...not more than a few months time? Your MOC either had 2 openings at the time your DS applied- or they didn't. I could see an extra slot opening up within that timeframe, ie. a cadet leaving, etc... but, a Senatorial nom slot becoming unavailable?? Perhaps through MOC error thinking he/she had a second slot to fill in the first place- but not through redistricting! It also seems plausible that your DS was the principal of this secondary disappearing slate, as I couldn't imagine your MOC would make him the principal on both slates. I think this may be where your answer lays.
Also, budget cuts do not affect or initiate the reapportionment and redistricting process of federal MOC's. The process, done every 10 years, is dictated by the population decrease/increase of ones state as determined by the constitutionally mandated Census.
So, I have to call a bit of BS on what your MOC rep is telling you
It just doesn't make sense.I was also unaware of the USNA having early action...Im curious how many other posters knew that USNA had early action?? 808DAD, were we the only one's in the dark?
Anyway, congrats to your son's AFA appointment and thanks for keeping us apprised 808DAD, I just question the legitimacy of what your MOC is telling you, it sounds more like MOC CYA.
I was also wondering about this Early Action Program. Something I have never heard of and have never seen mentioned regarding USNA.
I'm sorry that 808Dad's DS is in this position, and I agree that some of what was being told to 808Dad didn't seem to make sense. It seems like part of the story is still missing.
But, what confuses me even more is that there are other candidates in this same position. Even if 808Dad's MOC somehow goofed up, what about the other candidates? There were at least 3 others on this board that reported the same situation. Given the numbers here, that seems like a lot.
Aveon, you said you know a candidate in a similar situation. Can you share what they found out or what explanation was given?
I feel badly for these young men or women. Like this process isn't difficult enough without this happening.
I'm sorry that 808Dad's DS is in this position, and I agree that some of what was being told to 808Dad didn't seem to make sense. It seems like part of the story is still missing.
But, what confuses me even more is that there are other candidates in this same position. Even if 808Dad's MOC somehow goofed up, what about the other candidates? There were at least 3 others on this board that reported the same situation. Given the numbers here, that seems like a lot.
Aveon, you said you know a candidate in a similar situation. Can you share what they found out or what explanation was given?
I feel badly for these young men or women. Like this process isn't difficult enough without this happening.
from Aveon:
"First, at the federal level, redistricting within a state only affects US representative seats (and those academy nominations/slots thereof) - NOT US senatorial seats, which will always be a constant 2 senator seats per state (5 respective academy slots per senator).
Therefore, the US senators will always have the US service academy slots open/or filled, that they actually have open/or filled- IOW's redistricting would not affect the number of slots that your nominating US senator has to fill."
Boy, 808Dad, I would be tempted go back to that MOC rep and point this out. I mean, if they made a mistake, they ought to admit it, and perhaps if you call them on it, it will encourage them to be more careful in the future, so as to avoid causing similar problems for candidates down the road.
Redistricting affecting Senators! Really!
Congrats to your son on USAFA - that is a wonderful "back-up"!
"First, at the federal level, redistricting within a state only affects US representative seats (and those academy nominations/slots thereof) - NOT US senatorial seats, which will always be a constant 2 senator seats per state (5 respective academy slots per senator).
Therefore, the US senators will always have the US service academy slots open/or filled, that they actually have open/or filled- IOW's redistricting would not affect the number of slots that your nominating US senator has to fill."
Boy, 808Dad, I would be tempted go back to that MOC rep and point this out. I mean, if they made a mistake, they ought to admit it, and perhaps if you call them on it, it will encourage them to be more careful in the future, so as to avoid causing similar problems for candidates down the road.
Redistricting affecting Senators! Really!
Congrats to your son on USAFA - that is a wonderful "back-up"!
futuremarinemom
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I wonder if this EAP story is really true. Would a BGO know about it? And considering the bit about the Senators "redistricting", the whole thing sounds like BS to me.