validating courses

goarmywp2023

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for anybody who has validated courses, do you think it was a good idea? I know you will just be placed into a harder course, which could potentially be bad for GPA, but taking the harder classes might also open up more opportunities later. what do people think is the best thing to do? I'm having a hard time considering pros and cons.
 
for anybody who has validated courses, do you think it was a good idea? I know you will just be placed into a harder course, which could potentially be bad for GPA, but taking the harder classes might also open up more opportunities later. what do people think is the best thing to do? I'm having a hard time considering pros and cons.
Which courses are you allowed to validate and are they important to your major?
 
Here is the deal, you will be herded into a room to take tests during Beast. Do your best.
If you are able to validate courses it will give you the opportunity to do a double major or take additional courses for a minor.
If you are great at Math, go ahead and take Jedi Math without fear--you are smart and capable. My #1 LOVED the advance math series--LOVE it. (And he tested for Stats--with only having taken IB HL Math in high school--and validated the semester....think about all of the possibilities--it opened up time minor for him and an honors thesis and some extra physics classes for fun!)
Also, with the languages, you might as well validate as much as you can--because if you took Spanish in high school, you are going to start in intermediate level--unless you switch to a different language.
Go in there and do your best. Try to validate (Stats, Physics, Chem, Spanish/French/German/Arabic/Russian)--to open up your schedule.
Do not cheat yourself out of the best possible experience and education you can have at a great school.

You don't have to be #1 in the class--but you might--and those guys and ladies--they are taking the most challenging classes.
 
Since the new website, it has been harder to find information regarding core classes, and on the resource I found it said that biology was one of the science courses. Does anyone know if this is able to be validated?
 
It is all in the Redbook. Look at the Academic Course Catalog. It should pop up with a Google search for 'USMA curriculum'.
The core requirements have been adjusting slightly but mostly are the same. They are clearly put forth in the Redbook.
 
On the flip side - I tested into advanced chem class, barely passed, and it affected my GPA in that I graduated with a 2.98 . . . just below the "magic" 3.0 that grad schools want to see. I didn't need more or advanced chem for my major and, with all the newness of the military (I was first gen military and about as green as could be), taking the general chem vs advanced chem would've been better. Testing into a higher math class was beneficial for my major.

https://westpoint.edu/academics/dean/validation-and-advanced-placement
 
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There's a balance. Validate a few and you open up possibilities down the road, whether it's extracurricular or an internship or a foreign program or some other. Validate a lot and you risk depressing your GPA (and your psyche) to the detriment of your quality of life and class ranking.

The right balance is different for everyone. DD validated Calculus I, Chemistry I and English I at USNA and determined that's about right. She's duly challenged, doing well, and freeing up time in 2nd Class year. Your mileage may vary.
 
This topic comes up again and again. If you search this forum, you will find many threads asking this question with opinions running the gamut.

Our Firstie validated calc, chem, physics, and intro IT and chose to start ahead in those course streams Plebe year. Absolutely no regrets and no harm to GPA (A+ in Jedi Math). There are way more benefits to validating, IMO, than holding back to (only potentially) preserve the GPA which, IMO, is high-school mentality. Validations open slots for more interesting courses or double majoring and some of those advanced courses weight more positively toward the GPA. Our son told us back then that validating those initial courses spared him potential boredom of repeated material as well as eliminating courses that are taught in a baptism-by-fire style which is partly why they are viewed as "Plebe-Killers." He said the more advanced courses are not taught that way.

I always like to give credit to @LongAgoPlebe's response to the question of "should I opt to skip validations to preserve my GPA" in an older thread because I believe it is spot on:

Good idea in theory. In practice, it really doesn't happen this way. I see it all the time at my college (which is a lot like the SAs academically - very selective, rigorous, smaller number of majors and programs). Freshmen all take a math placement exam. They can opt to take the course below the one into which we place them. In fall 2014, 121 of 762 incoming freshmen did exactly that. Of those 121, 52 earned a C or below. Now, these are not slackers or students who need developmental math - they're choosing algebra instead of pre-calc or pre-calc instead of calc I. No, what's happening is simple human behavioral economics. "Whew, I'm in an easy math class! I aced this in high school! Now I have more time to devote to biology/ultimate frisbee/my boyfriend (etc.)" They don't do all the homework - because they already know this stuff, right? They don't study as hard for the exams. But this is college algebra, and college pre-calc, and so on. By the time they get the feedback on their first exam as a C or a D or an F, it's often too late to salvage a good course grade.

It comes up every year, multiple times, on all the SA forums: if I validate a class, should I move ahead or stay back? I say this from experience and with the benefit of data (yes, from my college, not a SA). We (all of us institutions of higher learning) are really good at figuring out what our students are ready to learn. If you take a placement exam that puts you in calc II or III, we're not just hoping you do okay - we know you can succeed. The advantages to taking a remedial course turn out to be few or none, whereas the potential costs are enormous. Contrast that with moving ahead, where there are still potential risks (but the same risk to your GPA), but also potential enormous benefits in terms of opening up different course tracks, the possibility of doing research with one of your professors because you now have the time, and additional courses that could help your service selection. Validation is a gift. Take it.

Our son is very glad he had room in his schedule to go deeper into the subjects he's most interested in and to do an independent study that earned him an award he is very proud of. His GPA did not suffer at all. You know the type of student you are, you know what you're capable of. If you can validate a course, don't sell yourself short. That's not officer mentality.

I will also add that although academics plays a strong part in each cadet's OML, the Army's shift to talent-based branching helps to ensure that the right cadets get the right branches when the time comes. Branch decisions now take a more holistic view of where each cadet's talents lie to avoid putting round pegs in square holes based on an unforgiving ranking formula.
 
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I think my Navy brother @MidCakePa hits the nail on the head; there is a balance that depends on the person. There are also two different options when we think "validation". You can be placed in the "advanced" section of the class or completely validate the class and not have to take it. Each department also does things a little differently. My DD had a year of college and here is what she did.

1. Chemistry: Was placed in the advanced Chemistry class but was not allowed to validate even though she had two semesters of college Chemistry. She loved the class and did well as the instructor taught the class at a high level
2. History: Was given credit for first year history with a 5 on AP test and a semester of college.
3. English: Was not allowed to validate any course even though she had a 5 on the AP test and a semester of college English. Got an A in the class even though she thought it was a bit slow.
4. Calculus: Was offered to test into Jedi math as she had a 5 on AP Calc test and did well in placement exam. Stayed in regular class as Calculus was her most difficult class through high school. Worked her butt of and got like a B+ so this was a good decision.

She was also given credit for a year of college Biology.and something else I do not remember.

With the validations, she is able to level load 5 classes a semester and add a minor in Cyber.
 
My 2021 validated chem and tested into the Jedi math series out of a public high school with no AP coursework. He loved the math series although it was a big step up from HS. He wished he would have known by validating chem he would be given the pleasure of 2 advanced physics courses and a bio. No harm to his GPA but he would have preferred taking 2 chems and one physics.

He is a double major who texted me today about completing an honors thesis. Lots of opportunities at the academies.
 
For some validation is a gift, for others a nightmare. USMA selects about 30% of the class as "Scholars". Those falling into this category are probably well served by validating everything they can.

Others may want to be more judicious about what and how many courses they validate. This is not a civilian college. You can't just drop a course without consequence and there is little slack time to put in more work if you made a mistake.

Use tests and faculty recommendations as a guide, but make your own decision about your academic comfort level - they don't have to live with the decision, but you do.
 
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?
 
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?
He will take the same test as everyone else and will have some say into what classes he ends up taking.
 
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?

My 2021 was asked whether or not he wanted to advance to Jedi as USMA knew he hadn't had college level or AP coursework and the same with chem. He could have dropped back but he enjoyed the challenge. Have your plebe ask more questions about how many of physics etc. The year of college will give him a leg up!
 
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?
He will take the same test as everyone else and will have some say into what classes he ends up taking.
Thank you!
 
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?

My 2021 was asked whether or not he wanted to advance to Jedi as USMA knew he hadn't had college level or AP coursework and the same with chem. He could have dropped back but he enjoyed the challenge. Have your plebe ask more questions about how many of physics etc. The year of college will give him a leg up!
Thank you!
Ok, maybe a silly question...so bear with me;). DS is a college re-applicant, so does he take these tests during Beast? After the results, if he tests well does he get a choice about validating, taking adv class or staying in reg section? Or does USMA put him automatically based on test results?

My 2021 was asked whether or not he wanted to advance to Jedi as USMA knew he hadn't had college level or AP coursework and the same with chem. He could have dropped back but he enjoyed the challenge. Have your plebe ask more questions about how many of physics etc. The year of college will give him a leg up!
Thank you!
 
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