What is everyone's take on validating college courses? I'm entering with an Associate's in Engineering and would like to validate as many as I can; however, I've been told that it is a poor idea. I've heard that I will likely just end up in Jedi/advanced placement courses and will have a harder time pulling good grades and therefore getting the branch/post I want. Thoughts?
Validating courses
- Thread starter Spartan19
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My 2 cents..... Are you a grinder that has to work really hard to get good grades or are you a really really smart academic type where chem, physics, calc etc... come easy to you?
If you are the former, then I wouldn't be as worried about validating. If you are the latter then I would try to validate everything I could.
If you are the former, then I wouldn't be as worried about validating. If you are the latter then I would try to validate everything I could.
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I validated several classes and placed into advanced classes in most other subjects. It is 100% what you want to do. The classes are more difficult at times, but they grade significantly easier and there are many opportunities for extra credit. Advanced courses learn the material faster and more in-depth, however take the same exams as the normal classes. I am in Jedi math and while I do struggle at times, the instructors will happily help you one-on-one whenever you need it. Validating classes also essentially shifts your major classes forward, allowing you to take more electives which you're interested in or picking up a minor.
In addition, branching doesn't depend much on grades anymore. Yes, they do matter still, however what matters most is your interview with the branch rep. How you have involved yourself with applicable experiences (ie: aviation, aviation team or pilots license) is valued over class rank. Posting still does, however.
Feel free to PM me if you have questions about specific classes. I wasn't planning on validating anything when I got to USMA but I was more academically prepared than I thought I would be.
In addition, branching doesn't depend much on grades anymore. Yes, they do matter still, however what matters most is your interview with the branch rep. How you have involved yourself with applicable experiences (ie: aviation, aviation team or pilots license) is valued over class rank. Posting still does, however.
Feel free to PM me if you have questions about specific classes. I wasn't planning on validating anything when I got to USMA but I was more academically prepared than I thought I would be.
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I validated everything except one class possible. As a result, I started my major courses rising yuk summer. The research, internships, and extra electives I had the opportunity at my peers who didn’t made up for the accelerated load. You’re at West Point to challenge yourself. Don’t go in with the mentality of trying to find ways to pad your GPA by taking classes you’ve already taken and waste your time.
I concur with billyb and add that you should also consider your intended major when deciding on validation.
With an Associates in Engineering you should be well-prepared and will be well served by placing into Jedi math if you intend to continue with a STEM major. However, if your intended major is in the Humanities or non-quantitative Social Sciences, take careful consideration of your math aptitude. USMA does a good job of accurately placing students in the proper courses, but there are cadets who wish they'd never heard of Jedi math.
For well-prepared students, validation and advanced placement are an excellent opportunity. For those on the border, who just qualify for advanced placement, but may not have mastered the concepts, validation can be a nightmare. It is your decision and you are the one who will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. Look at your standardized test scores, AP scores, grades, and determine your level of academic confidence. Go for it if you feel you can succeed.
Grades are still important and there are no "grade bumps" at USMA like there are in high school AP courses. For competitive branches, grades are important. In MI, for example - several cadets ranked highest by the branch were unable to get it because they got beat by cadets higher on the OML who were also ranked highest by the branch. For posting, OML and therefore grades, is critical and the difference in spending three years in Hawaii or Ft. Polk Louisiana.
With an Associates in Engineering you should be well-prepared and will be well served by placing into Jedi math if you intend to continue with a STEM major. However, if your intended major is in the Humanities or non-quantitative Social Sciences, take careful consideration of your math aptitude. USMA does a good job of accurately placing students in the proper courses, but there are cadets who wish they'd never heard of Jedi math.
For well-prepared students, validation and advanced placement are an excellent opportunity. For those on the border, who just qualify for advanced placement, but may not have mastered the concepts, validation can be a nightmare. It is your decision and you are the one who will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. Look at your standardized test scores, AP scores, grades, and determine your level of academic confidence. Go for it if you feel you can succeed.
Grades are still important and there are no "grade bumps" at USMA like there are in high school AP courses. For competitive branches, grades are important. In MI, for example - several cadets ranked highest by the branch were unable to get it because they got beat by cadets higher on the OML who were also ranked highest by the branch. For posting, OML and therefore grades, is critical and the difference in spending three years in Hawaii or Ft. Polk Louisiana.
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I did alright for myself. There’s always a balance where you need to find what you can handle. I had plenty of things I struggled with at the Academy that my classmates pulled me through like any other cadet (cow drowning comes to mind).
I’m just an advocate for not going in with the mentality of trying to game the system to pad your GPA. I had classmates who intentionally tanked placement exams during beast so they could end up in lower level classes for their GPA. It just seemed like a waste of their time to have a class they could nap through.
And I graduated when GPA was the most important thing for branching so it obviously mattered in that it influenced my future, but in the same way that my OERs now influence my life because they influence what opportunities/promotions I have access to. Top blocks are awesome just like a 4.0 GPA but if I lived with the mentality of making my decisions based on my evals/grades, I think I’d end up a lot more frustrated with life. Just my take; again, I’m not saying there isn’t a balance there.
You won’t know what you can handle until you try, and West Point is a relatively safe environment to push your boundaries in time management and other life skills that will translate to doing well as an officer and in life. West Point is usually the first place that most cadets are seriously challenged or face adversity. The Academy recruits the top high school students in the nation; these folks are academically smart, usually accomplished in sports or their extracurricular activities. The first time they hit a challenge is the Academy and it’s intentional to see how they respond. You can always drop down in placement if a class ends up too difficult or adjust course load with your DAC if it proves too challenging once you’ve tried. Trying though is important. Don’t fall into the cynical, barracks rat culture that hates their four years because they didn’t do anything besides the bare minimum to graduate.
I’m just an advocate for not going in with the mentality of trying to game the system to pad your GPA. I had classmates who intentionally tanked placement exams during beast so they could end up in lower level classes for their GPA. It just seemed like a waste of their time to have a class they could nap through.
And I graduated when GPA was the most important thing for branching so it obviously mattered in that it influenced my future, but in the same way that my OERs now influence my life because they influence what opportunities/promotions I have access to. Top blocks are awesome just like a 4.0 GPA but if I lived with the mentality of making my decisions based on my evals/grades, I think I’d end up a lot more frustrated with life. Just my take; again, I’m not saying there isn’t a balance there.
You won’t know what you can handle until you try, and West Point is a relatively safe environment to push your boundaries in time management and other life skills that will translate to doing well as an officer and in life. West Point is usually the first place that most cadets are seriously challenged or face adversity. The Academy recruits the top high school students in the nation; these folks are academically smart, usually accomplished in sports or their extracurricular activities. The first time they hit a challenge is the Academy and it’s intentional to see how they respond. You can always drop down in placement if a class ends up too difficult or adjust course load with your DAC if it proves too challenging once you’ve tried. Trying though is important. Don’t fall into the cynical, barracks rat culture that hates their four years because they didn’t do anything besides the bare minimum to graduate.
I took a lot of super-advanced STEM classes in high school (think calc AB as a sophomore) and HATED it. I scored decently well on all my STEM AP exams (4 5's and 1 4) but I think that's due more to me being good at standardized tests than truly understanding the material. In most of my classes, I felt lost and confused a good portion of the time. Would it still be a good idea to validate/take the advanced sections of these classes at USMA or should I retake them so it's easier and focus on my humanities courses which will eventually be part of my major?
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Different SA, same point: DD was a high achiever in high school STEM — took AP Calc in 10th grade, tons of other AP courses, got straight As. She validated Calc 1 and Chem 1, moved to the next courses in the sequence. And found them to be very challenging. She still got As, but it was no walk in the park.
The point being, if you struggled with APs, you’ll likely struggle at USMA if you jump the entry-level courses. YMMV, of course, but there’s no shame in starting at the beginning. USMA is an engineering school — even for humanities majors — and courses build on one another.
The point being, if you struggled with APs, you’ll likely struggle at USMA if you jump the entry-level courses. YMMV, of course, but there’s no shame in starting at the beginning. USMA is an engineering school — even for humanities majors — and courses build on one another.
In my opinion, it is more important to master the fundamentals of a subject than to jump into advanced levels. In advanced math and engineering courses, I observed that those having difficulty were struggling with the complicated algebra, rather than the engineering concepts or calculus involved - they had not mastered algebra/pre-calculus before proceeding to calculus. There is a big difference between getting an A or B in a course and mastering the material.
I believe that college credit should only be given for courses taught by college instructors; AP courses are still high school courses and have a wide range of rigor among high schools. Your AP scores indicate a high level of proficiency, but if you really did feel lost and hated it, going into an advanced level may not be the best course of action. However, if you can validate a course and never need to use the material again in future courses, that is an option worth considering.
Once fundamentals are mastered, validation and advanced courses offer many opportunities.
I believe that college credit should only be given for courses taught by college instructors; AP courses are still high school courses and have a wide range of rigor among high schools. Your AP scores indicate a high level of proficiency, but if you really did feel lost and hated it, going into an advanced level may not be the best course of action. However, if you can validate a course and never need to use the material again in future courses, that is an option worth considering.
Once fundamentals are mastered, validation and advanced courses offer many opportunities.