Venting about parents on FB

Status
Not open for further replies.
Someone should tell the helicopter parents that the freakin' UNITED STATES ARMY is now in charge of their kids. I'm flabbergasted that there is even a Parents Club and ice cream socials and forced phone calls home (although I'm not complaining about calls) and regular e-mail updates. Wow. Perhaps some of those things are what give some parents the idea that their "participation" is welcome. I know I was rather taken aback at all the marketing to parents at R-Day. I'm sure it sent exactly the wrong signal to some.
 
It hasn't always been that way. My husband's parents put him on the train from Philly to Baltimore, then he took a bus to Annapolis and walked in to report. Next time he saw them was A-N Game, but only because it was in his hometown. No Thanksgiving leave. No weekends. No spring break. No Parents Club. Saturday classes. Yes, this was the 20th c. Parenting styles have changed.
 
My son is currently at Ft Benning for BCT - he's enlisted National Guard. All the Companies, including Reception, have Facebook pages - where they periodically post pictures, videos and updates. There are also Facebook support groups for family members (mostly moms) that are very active. One big piece of advice from these groups is to "stalk, don't talk" on the Company pages to avoid getting your SIT and/or his platoon 'smoked'.

Overall, it seems from the enlisted perspective that there is a lot of push to cut the apron strings.
 
I didn't graduate all that long ago, but not a million years ago either. We were sort of between the dark ages and the growth of technology. I was actually with 7 grads a few weeks ago. I asked them what they would of done if their parents had called their company officer or a prof, they all said that wasn't even an option, expect for 1. He had actually gotten cancer during his Plebe year so the communication between him, his parents, company officer and other staff was extensive as he received treatment and they tried to decide to with education (he was rolled back a year). 4 of the 7 had actually either taught at USNA or were company officers at one point too. The company officers said they always got calls. They said 9 times out of 10 it was kids not telling their parents the full truth. And as mentioned due to confidentiality, none of this could be disclosed. As Capt MJ said, it was a matter of getting the kid to sit down and explain they needed to give the truth. The couple who taught were pretty open about telling parents that this was none of their business and the breakdown of the grade was clearly defined in the syllabus. The only source of info our parents had was really from us or the local parents groups. Even then this was before social media so the spread of that info was very limited. None of us could of fathomed any of this happening. The main source of any information our parents got was from us. The growth of social media obviously has pros and cons. Its great from a recruiting perspective as candidates really understand what they are getting into. That has resulted in lower attrition rates. Its great parents can see what their kids are doing, but seriously this is the military and the kids need to be doing this all. Whenever I meet candidates and I hear parents dominating conversations or using "we" I really get frustrated. Its not a we, yes parents play an enormous role in their child getting their, but the kid has to live this life and is the one raising their hand to support and defend the constitution. In a few short years that kid will be an officer possibly leading very young men and women in battle, not their parents. Every family is different and every kid is different, but the bottom line is this is the military and they are going to be officers leading young men and women one day.
 
Like I said originally I used this post more of a venting and gain perspective a bit and it has worked greatly!

I guess being enlisted in the dark ages I had no choice I had to do it on my own and it was expected. I was an adult and in the military and now that my DS is there I expect the same thing. I guess I see some (not all) parents now a days that are so vested in their children's futures it goes to the point of doing things for them than having the kids learning on their own.

Don't get me wrong I stalk the hell out of web guy looking for ever bit of my DS I can find. Even saw him on crutches but I never had the urge or even thought about calling the academy. I have to admit now because of this thread I can read those FB post and just laugh and move on.

Like Navy Hoops said she was on the edge of that tech switch that happened and those that were before that wouldn't even think about that and now you see this as a growing norm because of all the access given.
 
FB groups can also be used for good things, and if the group has a decent moderator, that other stuff gets deleted or otherwise smartly handled pretty quickly. Sharing info about major events, hotels, local attractions, building camaraderie among people who support the military, and opening up the conversation for prospective cadets' anxious parents — these are all good things for recruiting and retention.

The key is to have a committed moderator who has ideas about how to steer the conversation in such a way that guides those over-zealous parents in the transition from full-time guardian to part-time mentor. Not all of us on FB are helo parents. Prior to the FB group at our school, nobody knew when the Corps' spring pass in review was, or they found out about it too late to make plans to go. When we're able to make it to the review, standing on the drill field bank, and our cadet sees us standing there, we are not hovering. We are supporting. And he likes it pretty darn well when the review is over and he gets taken off campus for a nice thank-God-it's-not-Chow-Hall dinner.
 
payitforward said:
FB groups can also be used for good things, and if the group has a decent moderator, that other stuff gets deleted or otherwise smartly handled pretty quickly. Sharing info about major events, hotels, local attractions, building camaraderie among people who support the military, and opening up the conversation for prospective cadets' anxious parents — these are all good things for recruiting and retention.

The key is to have a committed moderator who has ideas about how to steer the conversation in such a way that guides those over-zealous parents in the transition from full-time guardian to part-time mentor. Not all of us on FB are helo parents. Prior to the FB group at our school, nobody knew when the Corps' spring pass in review was, or they found out about it too late to make plans to go. When we're able to make it to the review, standing on the drill field bank, and our cadet sees us standing there, we are not hovering. We are supporting. And he likes it pretty darn well when the review is over and he gets taken off campus for a nice thank-God-it's-not-Chow-Hall dinner.
Click to expand...

Agreed payitforward I did focus on the negative and since this thread have moved past it.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This is the official SAF Yik-Yak version!!

Push Hard, Press Forwaaaaard!!!!
 
The question comes down to where is the line between supporting and doing? Is there a generally accepted hard line? Has that line been influenced by the convenience of cell phones and social media?
 
I never realized there were FB Parents Groups. With both sons in ROTC we never had anything like this. I met some of the other parents at the Orientation, and never really saw them again until Commissioning. The Battalion has a FB Page but they are the only ones allowed to post, sometimes you see a comment or two from a parent but usually it's just pictures they post and information such as the dates of Commissioning and what the cadets have done or completed.

When the university would have a Dad's or Mom's weekend it was spent at the Fraternity, we never met or saw any of his cadre during those weekends, I think I only talked to any cadre 2 or 3 times over four years, there was never a parents day or anything that parents were invited to other then orientation and commissioning, there were no parents groups or parents FB pages. It was pretty much drop them off, good luck, let us know how things are going, that was about it. When they went to LDAC we got one letter and that was a request for more sunscreen.

Other battalions may be different but with my son's they were pretty much on their own from the start.

The battalion FB Page was nice because they posted the dates of Commissioning far in advance so we could get rooms, other then that it was just pictures.

Sounds like the Academies go a long way these days to keep the parents involved with parent days and groups to join. Back when I was in the stone ages the CGA was a place you were dropped off at and then the parents heard the stories at Christmas break, they were lucky to get a letter in between. I think the only parents group was the group of parents that hit the first pub in New London after they dropped their kid off.
 
Yes, the drama can get a bit much on some FB pages (and the 'oh I really miss my cadet' posts are stunningly numerous) but I have learned so many things that I would not have known otherwise, so I'm grateful for social media.

One example - on FB we learned that the cadets should put all their gear into large plastic ziplock bags so they can quickly and easily transfer their gear into the army bag that they are given on Rday. They are only given a very short time to do this, so the ziplocks are a huge help. My son's roommate never went on FB and so never read about this (WP did not include this advice in any of their paperwork), so he did not do this and he ended up not getting all of his stuff into the army bag. As a result, he missed having a lot of his gear as he had to leave it behind with his civillian things. The kids to read FB had an edge in this area.

Another example. On FB, we learned that compression shorts are really essential for the cadets to avoid rashes. My son told us that he had no trouble with any rashes but others in his company who only had regular underwear (and the WP issued stuff) had lots of trouble with rashes. Thank goodness for social media which helped our cadet avoid a problem.
 
This forum has been so helpful to me and I've been able to pass on information to my DS before he arrived that was invaluable! I learned about the compression shorts, moleskin, learned about sponsor familys, that I could come on A-day and bring food, and just what to expect, in general about the whole experience, on his end and ours. For me, I will stalk webguy for awhile longer, probably until I can email or have semi regular phone calls with my DS, but would never dream of actually calling the Academy. That would be where I would draw the line. I'm not on any FB groups, not a huge fan of FB. I like the people here.
 
Devil's advocate here. IMHO, helicopter parenting has been around a long time and to think that it's a recent development just ain't so.

I'm sure you've all heard about General MacArthur's mom moving to a West Point hotel overlooking the grounds. She supposedly was watching his room with a telescope to make sure he was studying, as evidenced by when his light went out. One has to wonder if he'd still have graduated first in his class if she hadn't been there.

Condi Rice was extremely close to her parents. They spoke on the phone every day, in fact, up until the time her mother and father passed, she would call and wish them goodnight, every night.

I'm not defending helicopter parenting, but can someone provide examples of helicopter parenting that went awry? Of cadets who didn't shake their parents off, eventually, and failed West Point because of their parent's perceived over involvement?

I know so many young men and women who still live at home while attending college but their parents are not considered helicopter parents since the kids are still living there, I guess. Most of the cadets are far, far from home and I hate to think of some of them not receiving support because "they need to toughen up."

I guess the definition of "helicopter parent" is debatable.

I'll humbly step off the dais now.
 
A few years ago, I was at a USNA event with a bunch of parents. One of them was bragging how, when there was a perceived shortage of food at meals, the parents club of which he was president "contacted the Supe to express their concern."

My jaw almost hit the floor.

I wanted to ask whether this approach would continue when their kid hit the fleet. I'm sure it would go over well with the ship's CO.:rolleyes:
 
Last year at WP there was a (perceived) shortage of TP for cadets (after much of the janitorial staff was let go for budget cuts). Some parents were mailing rolls of TP to their cadets. (Local parents were buying it in bulk and delivering it.) Turns out the cadets just needed to ask where it was stored. :D

Over the last year I've read many FB posts about parents wanting to contact the Supe re. different issues (no mail/mail delays, quality/quantity of food, lack of heat in the barracks, etc -- I can't even remember some of the silly things). And these weren't even "military" in nature.
 
MombaBomba said:
The question comes down to where is the line between supporting and doing? Is there a generally accepted hard line? Has that line been influenced by the convenience of cell phones and social media?
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure where the line is, but for me, here's a start:
• I would not contact any of my son's professors or students I'm aware of in the same classes.
• I wouldn't insist he choose any particular major, or choose any particular extracurricular activity or run for any leadership positions.
• I wouldn't demand that my son show me individual final grades. (I ask, "how'd you do" and interpret the answer according to the tone the answer was delivered in as to whether or not he wishes to discuss this with me. It's his business.)
• I consider the tuition I'm paying to be an investment in my son's future but he's the one who receives each class syllabus and must abide by that contract, not me. Therefore, I consider the tuition I pay to be an investment in HIM, not an investment in some school. He is responsible for every aspect of his education. I am responsible for signing a check and asking every so often if he needs my help or advice about anything.
• I would not get involved in anything related to ROTC training. Not my business.
• I would not get involved in anything to do with school traditions or events unless parent involvement and help is part of the tradition (like drop off day, parents day, graduation, competitions where a fan base is a key element). For example: stuff I'm not getting involved in: school rings, yearbooks, dances, parties, trips, etc, unless a student who is not my kid specifically asks for my input and other than a little input on my part, the thing is otherwise completely student-driven.

What else? I'm sure I could sit here and list stuff all day. What else crosses the line? I'm sure there's more.

The way I look at it, my son is at an SMC. He is expected to take responsibility for his actions; to be dependent on and responsible to his CoC for information; to learn to be observant, aware and empathetic; to rise to physical, mental and emotional challenges that would ultimately prove his capability to be an officer leading other people's kids in combat. If he's good at that stuff without my interference, then that's where he belongs. If he's not good at it, or if he requires my input on key stuff, somebody on staff there is going to notice and send him elsewhere.

Funnily enough, I could see DS's dorm window from the webcam. There were times when I could sort of make out whether the light was on. Am I a helicopter parent for looking at the webcam? Nah. I just miss him and that made me feel close for a second without bothering him in the slightest.
 
I am well aware of the facts of the issue I cited -- other than the booing. Of course, our class booed the SecNav at our graduation -- but that's another story entirely.:D

Two points.

First, no one is ever going to starve at USNA. If, for some reason, mids don't find enough food in King Hall, there is Drydock, Steerage, the MidStore, etc., all of which have food. There are sponsors who can bring them food; they can go out in town on the WEs and gorge themselves. I understand there was not enough food compared to what is normal (or even what should be expected), but no one was in danger of starving.

Second, it is not the role of parents to intervene. Their kids are now emancipated adults who are members of the US military. This would certainly not be the last time in the kids' military careers that they encountered some obstacle. Part of being an adult, and especially being in the military, is learning to deal with and/or overcome obstacles -- on your own or with your shipmates.

What is going to happen when this same kid finds him/herself in battle being led by a senior officer who makes dumb decisions that might literally get the kid killed? Is he/she going to call home to mommy and daddy and have them call the commanding general/admiral?

It's one thing for parents to kibbutz among themselves in social media, on the phone, in person, etc. -- they have every right to vent. Calling the CO (in this case, the Supe) to complain about how their kid is being treated -- be it lack of food, not getting a certain grade, not being allowed to go on liberty or whatever -- is something else entirely. Had my parents done something like that (which they never would have), I would have been mortified.

But I guess things are different today.:rolleyes:
 
MDADD, don't necessarily disagree with you. I am well aware of what happened with the food issue. Heck my best friend used to be the food services officer at USNA and I understand how the food thing works there (He wasn't when this all happened). The bottom line is this is chain of command issue, not a parent issue. Everything at USNA is a learning opportunity, Mids don't always see this. They will be dealing with mess halls on ships, sub, bases, etc in a few months to a few years. It is important they understand how to bring a problem forward to leadership with facts and follow through. They are the ones that have to solve this issue in a short amount of time while in the fleet when they hear a sailor or Marine isn't getting chow. The bottom line is Sailors and Marines have a tendency to blow things out of proportion also, so its important to get the truth and not knee jerk. Yes hearing your kid is not getting his food is hard to hear. Firsties should be reporting to their company officer the issue and it should and was addressed immediately. I mean they had an O-6 running around King Hall when this all happened trying to fix the situation and it was. It sucks the situation happened, but it was fixed. Parents should not be calling to make sure their kid is being fed. What happens when they hit the fleet and they don't get an underway replenishment or they don't make a rally point to get food and water refills when they hit the fleet? This goes for mail issues, heat (A/C is a luxury not a requirement), TP, etc. They need to use their chain of command, that is why they exist. It is part of their leadership development and to develop good habits. The minute they graduate they many times will be the one everyone is looking for as the first officer in a chain of command to solve issues. Also for many of us this quote is very true, "If they stop complaining, that is when you know you are in trouble."

Whenever there are major rule changes at USNA the brigade grumbles. It has happened for a century and will with nearly every leadership change that makes something along the lines of "major" changes. If the brigade is given more liberty you won't hear anyone complaining. Its part of the deal at USNA. After the great scandals of 1995 time frame the Brigade had a huge crack down. Civies, liberty and tons of other privileges were revoked and then slowly given back as the brigade started to right itself. Overseas duty stations and liberty is very similar to this. Someone will do something very stupid and liberty will come to a crawl or slow and then as things right itself, it starts to loosen up.

For many Mids and Cadets, the parental support is a huge part of what helped get them there. But they aren't at State U, they volunteered for something much greater. The fleet isn't perfect, USNA isn't perfect. It is a large organization. My best friend just declined command because he doesn't believe he can lead the Navy wants him to, he doesn't believe in what they want him to do. I don't blame him, I understand the angst. I struggled with many parts of the Marine Corps. I am not blind to the errors or issues, I just have a hard time hearing that mom is worried about getting fed or why he doesn't get to come home so they call a company officer. Or why the prof didn't give him an A and how that will ruin his grad school chances. When the reality is he won't starve, he can't come home because he got in trouble and hasn't told his parents yet and they knew the course requirements day 1 of the semester.
 
usna1985 said:
I am well aware of the facts of the issue I cited -- other than the booing. Of course, our class booed the SecNav at our graduation -- but that's another story entirely.:D


Second, it is not the role of parents to intervene. Their kids are now emancipated adults who are members of the US military. This would certainly not be the last time in the kids' military careers that they encountered some obstacle. Part of being an adult, and especially being in the military, is learning to deal with and/or overcome obstacles -- on your own or with your shipmates.
Click to expand...

This x 1,000. I don't know how it is at USNA or USAFA, but USMA coddles the parents too much. IMO, after that 60 second goodbye, they need to have "straight talk" with the parents about the fact that their child is now in the military. The parent of a USMA cadet should have greater access or say than the parent of an enlistee at Fort Benning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top