Very Difficult Decision

[Soldier75]

Hello,

Before I start, let me say that both USNA and NROTC will only be available to me if my medical gets approved. I am currently on waiver

I was sent a LOA from USNA in early February and was very excited. USNA was my first choice at the time and I was very grateful that they would accept me if my medical was approved. The only problem is that my medical is under waiver as of right now.

A few weeks ago, I found out I was accepted to a Top 20 institution in my hometown with a very generous scholarship and grant attached. The school also has NROTC, which I would do if I attended (and if my medical gets approved). I honestly did not think I would have been accepted into this school which leads me to my next point...

I have to choose one or the other, and I am very stressed about which school I should attend. Both are very good offers and would give me a degree that would fend well in the job market. One is more military focused, while the other is research. I do like the freedom that NROTC would give me, but the prestige and leadership development, and networking from a USNA is also top notch. I am having a hard time choosing especially since May 1st (national decision day) is around the corner.

Some goals as far as career and military go, I'd love to fly or be a SWO. However, I do not see myself being in the Navy for 20+ years. I would like to potentially be a commercial pilot after the Navy or work at a defense contractor as an engineer. Additionally, I would like to pursue a Masters, and I have heard SA are great ways to get a masters from a prestigious university. But I have also heard that it is heavily dependent on your academics and # of spots available.

Any advice is welcome! I have visited both USNA and the T20, and loved both. I did meet a midshipman when visiting USNA who told me that I should go to USNA unless I get into an Ivy or similar, which is why I am stuck at the moment. When I visited the T20, the NROTC members I talked to did say that USNA is a "4 year prison" (their words not mine), so that puts even more doubts in my mind...

As of right now, if my medical does not get cleared by May 1st, I will go to the T20 and hope they clear my medical for NROTC. If they do clear it before then, I will have the make one of the most difficult decisions of my life...

Very Respectfully,
Soldier75

 

[THParent]

...Both are very good offers and would give me a degree that would fend well in the job market...

...I do like the freedom that NROTC would give me, but the prestige and leadership development, and networking from a USNA is also top notch...

...I'd love to fly or be a SWO. However, I do not see myself being in the Navy for 20+ years....

...I have heard SA are great ways to get a masters from a prestigious university...

...NROTC members I talked to did say that USNA is a "4 year prison"...

1. If you want to be an officer, you can become one through NROTC or USNA. If your decision hinges on how your degree will be looked at in the job market, is being an officer really what you want to be, or are you just really after the degree?

2. NROTC is more like "regular college" with most of the freedom that entails. USNA not so much. USNA's goal is to make you an officer in The Navy or The Marine Corps. The degree is what you get, but that's not the point of it.

3. How much would you love to fly or be a SWO? If you would love to fly, realistically, you will be in The Navy or Marine Corps for at least eight (8) years after graduation. That's 12 years right there. Another 12 years (the first 4 at USNA don't count) and you can retire. Maybe keep an open mind here? You could love it. Either way, the experience will shape you like no other.

4. Sure, the government may pay for you to get that Masters degree, but you pay it back with more time later on active duty. Nothing in life is really free. Freedom sure isn't.

5. When the college kids say USNA is "like a prison" they're not altogether wrong, but they're not completely right, either. There are positives and negatives to everything. USNA Midshipmen are afforded numerous opportunities and exposure to people, ideas, and technology which simply are not available to NROTC students at "regular college". At USNA you don't get a "Summer vacation". There are required training blocks during the Summer which range from internships at National Laboratories, DoD facilities, and various government agencies to training at sea, on land, or in the air. Many Midshipmen conclude their four years of study having visited several different countries and meeting many influential people from all over the World.

What I am saying here is that the question maybe shouldn't be so much "which" as it should be "why".

Why do you want to become an officer? If you can't really answer that, then you need to go to college and get your degree and put the officer stuff aside. After you get that degree, you can always decide later that you want to become an officer through another way, like OCS.

 

[Soldier75]

1. If you want to be an officer, you can become one through NROTC or USNA. If your decision hinges on how your degree will be looked at in the job market, is being an officer really what you want to be, or are you just really after the degree?

2. NROTC is more like "regular college" with most of the freedom that entails. USNA not so much. USNA's goal is to make you an officer in The Navy or The Marine Corps. The degree is what you get, but that's not the point of it.

3. How much would you love to fly or be a SWO? If you would love to fly, realistically, you will be in The Navy or Marine Corps for at least eight (8) years after graduation. That's 12 years right there. Another 12 years (the first 4 at USNA don't count) and you can retire. Maybe keep an open mind here? You could love it. Either way, the experience will shape you like no other.

4. Sure, the government may pay for you to get that Masters degree, but you pay it back with more time later on active duty. Nothing in life is really free. Freedom sure isn't.

5. When the college kids say USNA is "like a prison" they're not altogether wrong, but they're not completely right, either. There are positives and negatives to everything. USNA Midshipmen are afforded numerous opportunities and exposure to people, ideas, and technology which simply are not available to NROTC students at "regular college". At USNA you don't get a "Summer vacation". There are required training blocks during the Summer which range from internships at National Laboratories, DoD facilities, and various government agencies to training at sea, on land, or in the air. Many Midshipmen conclude their four years of study having visited several different countries and meeting many influential people from all over the World.

What I am saying here is that the question maybe shouldn't be so much "which" as it should be "why".

Why do you want to become an officer? If you can't really answer that, then you need to go to college and get your degree and put the officer stuff aside. After you get that degree, you can always decide later that you want to become an officer through another way, like OCS.

Thank you for your response. I am confident I want to become an officer and serve in the Navy unless I am physically unable to. I am just wondering since both routes will get me to the Navy, which route would better fit me in the long run, since I see myself eventually departing from the Navy to accomplish other life goals, the main ones being career and family. But you are right, I should just see what happens.

 

[NavyHoops]

Thank you for your response. I am confident I want to become an officer and serve in the Navy unless I am physically unable to. I am just wondering since both routes will get me to the Navy, which route would better fit me in the long run, since I see myself eventually departing from the Navy to accomplish other life goals, the main ones being career and family. But you are right, I should just see what happens.

One never knows where life will take them. I can’t tell you how many friends said, 5 and dive. Some of these are still on active duty, post retirement years of service, still at it. Be open to where the road takes you. Pilot… you will have about a decade for the most part under your belt before you can leave service. 10 more years is a nice pension and healthcare for life (you have no idea how much this is worth).

Where would you thrive best? That is the question and where you belong.

 

[mo2023]

Hello,

Before I start, let me say that both USNA and NROTC will only be available to me if my medical gets approved. I am currently on waiver

I was sent a LOA from USNA in early February and was very excited. USNA was my first choice at the time and I was very grateful that they would accept me if my medical was approved. The only problem is that my medical is under waiver as of right now.

A few weeks ago, I found out I was accepted to a Top 20 institution in my hometown with a very generous scholarship and grant attached. The school also has NROTC, which I would do if I attended (and if my medical gets approved). I honestly did not think I would have been accepted into this school which leads me to my next point...

I have to choose one or the other, and I am very stressed about which school I should attend. Both are very good offers and would give me a degree that would fend well in the job market. One is more military focused, while the other is research. I do like the freedom that NROTC would give me, but the prestige and leadership development, and networking from a USNA is also top notch. I am having a hard time choosing especially since May 1st (national decision day) is around the corner.

Some goals as far as career and military go, I'd love to fly or be a SWO. However, I do not see myself being in the Navy for 20+ years. I would like to potentially be a commercial pilot after the Navy or work at a defense contractor as an engineer. Additionally, I would like to pursue a Masters, and I have heard SA are great ways to get a masters from a prestigious university. But I have also heard that it is heavily dependent on your academics and # of spots available.

Any advice is welcome! I have visited both USNA and the T20, and loved both. I did meet a midshipman when visiting USNA who told me that I should go to USNA unless I get into an Ivy or similar, which is why I am stuck at the moment. When I visited the T20, the NROTC members I talked to did say that USNA is a "4 year prison" (their words not mine), so that puts even more doubts in my mind...

As of right now, if my medical does not get cleared by May 1st, I will go to the T20 and hope they clear my medical for NROTC. If they do clear it before then, I will have the make one of the most difficult decisions of my life...

Very Respectfully,
Soldier75

I am currently a 2/C at USNA and have a few points to share since we are currently undergoing our last steps before service selection:
1) Not sure what your medical waiver is for, but regardless of where you go, it is important to keep in mind that in order to be medically qualified to select pilot or NFO, you have to go through a series of medical tests. There are multiple things that can disqualify you from flying even if you do get a medical waiver to attend USNA.
2) USNA will give you an experience like no other and believe it or not, plenty of pilots get out right after their 8 year commitment and move to commercial... and trust me, those job offers you will get as a USNA graduate will always be more competitive than if you were to go NROTC (However, I agree with the Ivy school statement).
3) There is a new blended retirement program where it does not mean you have to stay in for 20+ years to get a sufficient retirement package. I would do some more research about that because the new plan looks more similar to a 401K where the Navy will match your contributions to your retirement plan. If you want to fly, most pilots will move to commercial prior to their 20+ years and they will do just fine financially.

Hope this helps!

 

[cluelesscandidateparents]

I am currently a 2/C at USNA and have a few points to share since we are currently undergoing our last steps before service selection:
1) Not sure what your medical waiver is for, but regardless of where you go, it is important to keep in mind that in order to be medically qualified to select pilot or NFO, you have to go through a series of medical tests. There are multiple things that can disqualify you from flying even if you do get a medical waiver to attend USNA.
2) USNA will give you an experience like no other and believe it or not, plenty of pilots get out right after their 8 year commitment and move to commercial... and trust me, those job offers you will get as a USNA graduate will always be more competitive than if you were to go NROTC (However, I agree with the Ivy school statement).
3) There is a new blended retirement program where it does not mean you have to stay in for 20+ years to get a sufficient retirement package. I would do some more research about that because the new plan looks more similar to a 401K where the Navy will match your contributions to your retirement plan. If you want to fly, most pilots will move to commercial prior to their 20+ years and they will do just fine financially.

Hope this helps!

Besides the new like 401k plan did they keep the retirement at 20 yrs?

 

[mo2023]

Besides the new like 401k plan did they keep the retirement at 20 yrs?

Yes, along with continued medical coverage for you and your dependents. It is still beneficial to stay in as long as possible if this is your only career plan. The purpose of them changing it was to avoid the "all or nothing" consequences if you don't stay in 20 years.

This article explains the basics of the Blended Retirement System very well: https://www.military.com/benefits/m...u retire at 20,lump-sum benefit at retirement.

 

[StPaulDad]

Try to imagine the morning after committing to one or the other. What are the misgivings from each perspective, and are there any you would have trouble living with? And can you afford the T20 if your waiver for NROTC doesn't come through? What's your Plan C?

 

[cluelesscandidateparents]

Yes, along with continued medical coverage for you and your dependents. It is still beneficial to stay in as long as possible if this is your only career plan. The purpose of them changing it was to avoid the "all or nothing" consequences if you don't stay in 20 years.

This article explains the basics of the Blended Retirement System very well: https://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/blended-retirement-system.html#:~:text=The Blended Retirement System Summed Up&text=If you retire at 20,lump-sum benefit at retirement.

Yeah that was a good change. My DS wants to do at least 20

Thanks

 

[bopper]

Another decision factor:
You said the "Top 20 institution is in my hometown "...do you have a desire to explore a new area or get away from home? Or do you have reasons you need to be close to home for now? (e.g., ill parent).

Is the weather significantly different in Annapolis vs. your home town? Are you cool with that?

 

[Soldier75]

One never knows where life will take them. I can’t tell you how many friends said, 5 and dive. Some of these are still on active duty, post retirement years of service, still at it. Be open to where the road takes you. Pilot… you will have about a decade for the most part under your belt before you can leave service. 10 more years is a nice pension and healthcare for life (you have no idea how much this is worth).

Where would you thrive best? That is the question and where you belong.

Thank you for the advice! I have heard the pension is equivalent to "a million dollars and more" so I'll keep that in mind I am just unsure about which to go to because I honestly could see myself in both places. They were very welcoming and although the culture difference was like night and day both were full of friendly and helpful individuals. And since they would both lead me to the Navy, it's even more difficult.

 

[Soldier75]

I am currently a 2/C at USNA and have a few points to share since we are currently undergoing our last steps before service selection:
1) Not sure what your medical waiver is for, but regardless of where you go, it is important to keep in mind that in order to be medically qualified to select pilot or NFO, you have to go through a series of medical tests. There are multiple things that can disqualify you from flying even if you do get a medical waiver to attend USNA.
2) USNA will give you an experience like no other and believe it or not, plenty of pilots get out right after their 8 year commitment and move to commercial... and trust me, those job offers you will get as a USNA graduate will always be more competitive than if you were to go NROTC (However, I agree with the Ivy school statement).
3) There is a new blended retirement program where it does not mean you have to stay in for 20+ years to get a sufficient retirement package. I would do some more research about that because the new plan looks more similar to a 401K where the Navy will match your contributions to your retirement plan. If you want to fly, most pilots will move to commercial prior to their 20+ years and they will do just fine financially.

Hope this helps!

Thank you for your insight!
1. I am in the waiver process for "history of anxiety disorder" and "olfactory deficit" I won't go into detail but the anxiety was basically something my counselor had to put down for insurance purposes, and the olfactory deficit was just taste and smell alteration from covid if that helps any. If I was DQ'd for pilot I could still serve in the Navy though correct? It's not an across-the-board DQ is it?
2. That is what my cousin and many of his friends did as well. He was a sub hunter and now is flying for United. For the job offerings, does this go for jobs both in and out of the Navy? I would assume within the Navy that USNA would be preferred over an IVY NROTC, but I may be wrong.
3. I believe a close family friend did something similar to this. I will look into that as well. Thank you for the information!

 

[Anonymous121]

Thank you for your insight!
1. I am in the waiver process for "history of anxiety disorder" and "olfactory deficit" I won't go into detail but the anxiety was basically something my counselor had to put down for insurance purposes, and the olfactory deficit was just taste and smell alteration from covid if that helps any. If I was DQ'd for pilot I could still serve in the Navy though correct? It's not an across-the-board DQ is it?

They are talking about a flight physical, which is quite a bit more selective than the typical DODI 6130.03. If you are DQ'd from flight physical but not 6130.03, you are fine serving in any other AOC within the military.

 

[Soldier75]

Try to imagine the morning after committing to one or the other. What are the misgivings from each perspective, and are there any you would have trouble living with? And can you afford the T20 if your waiver for NROTC doesn't come through? What's your Plan C?

That is a good way to put it. There are many pros and cons for both and I should assess that deeper. I am just considering the opportunities after graduation both in and out of the service. Affordability is not an issue for me as the T20 gave me a very generous amount, so even if I cannot serve in NROTC, I will be okay financially. If I get outright DQ'd I will go to the T20.

 

[Soldier75]

They are talking about a flight physical, which is quite a bit more selective than the typical DODI 6130.03. If you are DQ'd from flight physical but not 6130.03, you are fine serving in any other AOC within the military.

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[Soldier75]

Another decision factor:
You said the "Top 20 institution is in my hometown "...do you have a desire to explore a new area or get away from home? Or do you have reasons you need to be close to home for now? (e.g., ill parent).

Is the weather significantly different in Annapolis vs. your home town? Are you cool with that?

I do have a desire to go away for school, but my hometown is more like a home city and is very large. Although my parents are thankfully not ill as of right now, I think it would lessen the mental strain on them since I am very important in their lives, especially my mother. She has voiced that she does not want me to go to USNA and that she will miss me very much. If I did NROTC in my hometown I reckon she would be much happier.
As for the weather I am not sure. It's usually hot and humid where I am so I would say it's similar in the summer at least!

 

[MidCakePa]

I would assume within the Navy that USNA would be preferred over an IVY NROTC, but I may be wrong.

Once you’re in the fleet, no one will give a diddly where you went to school and how you got your butter bars. Performance matters — not much else.

Once you’ve served on active duty — whether five years or 25 — where you went to school won’t help much in landing a job. It might get you an interview, but your performance and potential will get you the job. The employer will want to know what you achieved in the military and how you did it — that’s what matters.

 

[Heatherg21]

I do have a desire to go away for school, but my hometown is more like a home city and is very large. Although my parents are thankfully not ill as of right now, I think it would lessen the mental strain on them since I am very important in their lives, especially my mother. She has voiced that she does not want me to go to USNA and that she will miss me very much. If I did NROTC in my hometown I reckon she would be much happier.
As for the weather I am not sure. It's usually hot and humid where I am so I would say it's similar in the summer at least!

I appreciate your love and affection for your parents. Not all kids express it or offer it. That being said, your mom will miss you whether you are 180 miles or 2500. Our DS is 2251 miles from us. Since he has reported for IDay he has seen his dad three times in two years (dad doesn’t travel well).
I miss him. He’s my bud, but he is pursuing his dreams and pride replaces the angst of missing him for me. At least most days. Thank goodness for technology.

Whether you select NROTC or USNA, once you commission your parents will have to make peace with you being anywhere in the world for any length of time. Sometimes without communication for long periods of time.

Respect and love your mom and pop, and balance choosing what is best for you. It’s of course a very personal decision and you have to do what is best for you.

 

[LT360]

I appreciate your love and affection for your parents. Not all kids express it or offer it. That being said, your mom will miss you whether you are 180 miles or 2500. Our DS is 2251 miles from us. Since he has reported for IDay he has seen his dad three times in two years (dad doesn’t travel well).
I miss him. He’s my bud, but he is pursuing his dreams and pride replaces the angst of missing him for me. At least most days. Thank goodness for technology.

Whether you select NROTC or USNA, once you commission your parents will have to make peace with you being anywhere in the world for any length of time. Sometimes without communication for long periods of time.

Respect and love your mom and pop, and balance choosing what is best for you. It’s of course a very personal decision and you have to do what is best for you.

100% agree with @Heatherg21 As a Dad, I miss my DS everyday as we were close while he grew up. I miss him more when I realize he willnot be home til Aug for leave. Then I start down the rabbit hole of when he commissions and goes on deployment! I will continue to miss him as time goes on and we see less of each of other. I now understand, why my grandfather (a tough grizzly farmer WW2 vet who saw action in most major battles in the European and African theatre) cried every time we left after visiting him in the summer.

However it is a parents duty to raise their children to be good and productive members of society. This means training them up and letting them go.

Even if you go to school close to parents what happens after graduation? Will you stay close? Does that meet with your dreams and desires?

 

[mo2023]

Thank you for your insight!
1. I am in the waiver process for "history of anxiety disorder" and "olfactory deficit" I won't go into detail but the anxiety was basically something my counselor had to put down for insurance purposes, and the olfactory deficit was just taste and smell alteration from covid if that helps any. If I was DQ'd for pilot I could still serve in the Navy though correct? It's not an across-the-board DQ is it?
2. That is what my cousin and many of his friends did as well. He was a sub hunter and now is flying for United. For the job offerings, does this go for jobs both in and out of the Navy? I would assume within the Navy that USNA would be preferred over an IVY NROTC, but I may be wrong.
3. I believe a close family friend did something similar to this. I will look into that as well. Thank you for the information!

1. A bunch of people are DQ'd from pilot and are still medically clear to serve in every other community, you won't really have to worry about pilot qualifications until later so no it is not an "across-the-board" DQ. In terms of being medically qualified for the academy in general, you have good chances of being waived for both so keep your head up!
2. Promotion and command opportunities within the Navy come down to individual performance. It has nothing to do with your commissioning source, once you are in the fleet your performance speaks for itself (which academy grads may have an upper hand on some leadership/technical skills that improve performance).