Very Sad...more assaults

Pima said:
Luigi, I am not disagreeing with you, I once long ago was that 19 yo girl, but I have to say my mother instilled in me never to get into those situations. She drilled in my mind, that you go together as a group of girls, and you leave as a group of girls. If you think that 1 is drunk, you collect her and leave before she can wake up the next morning with regret.

That to me is one of the problems. We blame the male counterpart when they are just as drunk as the female. We as women, don't do enough to protect each other when placed in a predicament.

I am proud of the fact that my friends when I was 18-20, legal drinking age was 21, watched out for each other, and when one of us saw another passing a line they would regret in the morning we dragged their butts out.

Bullet and I instilled in our DD the same philosophy. When you go to a party, you go as a group, when you leave the party, you leave with the same group. No deviation from that plan. DD and her friends have taken that up a notch. They use the designated driver program, and have agreed that if the DD in the group says NO, you are drunk, there is no argument, the DD has the ball and can call it. No arguments.

Our daughter gave me the highest compliment because she said that I told her one thing before she left for college that stuck with her.

"If he loves you so much tonight and wants to have sex with you, he will love you more tomorrow too...if he doesn't love you tomorrow, than he didn't love yesterday and you will not regret not having sex with him, but you will regret if you do have sex with him"

I hate when people bring up the No may have meant Yes argument, but unfortunately there is that issue. Even in this case the "incapacitated" issue will be played in from a defense POV, UNLESS she reported the assault immediately and had a tox screen done, which still may not help the prosecution. The emotional scar of rape will last, and longer if there is no conviction. Being afraid because you were drunk will only hurt you psychologically if you believe you were raped, but were afraid to report or talked out it for that one reason. There will always be that doubt, that question, that inability to trust.

Before you send any DD to any college, be smart. The fact is they know about protected sex and pregnancies from HS health. They don't know as girls that RAPE is a crime which occurs because too many victims are afraid they brought it on themselves.

Teach your girls, that traveling in packs like NUNS is a good thing. Tell them that you as a parent, will understand if they got drunk, but if this occurred when they were drunk, still immediately go to the hospital because medical examinations will be needed for conviction, plus for their own health...STDs, and unwanted pregnancy,

Don't worry about what others will think.

Pound into your DS's that the girl you are attracted to is someone's sister, and to remember how you will emotionally feel if they did it to your sister. The whole AF and officer thing is BS, it is not emotional. The this act can be your sister, your cousin or even your ex-gf is personal and something they can relate to emotionally.

In a way it is about how you send your kid off to college or the AFA.

The AFA is a great place, and the actions of some stupid cadets does not equate to it being a place that condones rape.

Long ago before many of you were here, but there was a poster who had a 5'0 100 lb DD at the AFA. If fear of rape in your mind exists, she would have been the prime female candidate to get raped. That didn't happen. Instead because the winds are so bad at the AFA, she had male cadets hold onto her as she crossed the campus...actually required! She had brothers who protected her.

IMPO, Claxton, Cressy and Evanston should be watching their backs today because I bet there are alot of male cadets ready to pummel them if given the opportunity.

Not because they sullied the AFA name, or the male cadets, but because these girls are their family and they hurt them.
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Awesome post!
 
Pima said:
I hate when people bring up the No may have meant Yes argument, but unfortunately there is that issue.
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Just as I hate it when "Yes" last night changes to "No" two weeks later.

Unfortunately, there is that issue as well.
 
Pima -- Right on. BobBigBoy, my DD is also a candidate for USNA and USAFA for Class of 2016 and last Feb when she start the process this issue was the first thing I thought about. So much so I sought out Alums of the SAs that I knew and asked about the issues from 2003-4. The advice Pima gives is spot on with what the programs the AFA and USNA have implemented to counteract the impact of taking a scared 18yo and putting them in an environment with a 20-21yo with "power". The intent is to ensure that all Cadets or Mids know that they can and should come forward BEFORE the incident occurs.

Being a good "wingman" is the current AD Air Force program. Don't put yourself in the position and don't stand by while it happens to your friend/teammate/comrade. Standing by is being an enabler of the behavior by the perpetrator and you are just as guilty and will be treated as such according to AF policy.

Again, Pima is so right about protecting each other...both women looking out for each other and thier "brothers" looking out for them also.
 
Death Penalty?

Article 120 RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(1) Rape. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.


Death Penalty - that seems about as harsh as the law can get. I thought the only thing a person can get executed for in the United States is murder.

Are there any ex-cadets on death row?
 
mdrob214 said:
Pima -- Right on. BobBigBoy, my DD is also a candidate for USNA and USAFA for Class of 2016 and last Feb when she start the process this issue was the first thing I thought about. So much so I sought out Alums of the SAs that I knew and asked about the issues from 2003-4. The advice Pima gives is spot on with what the programs the AFA and USNA have implemented to counteract the impact of taking a scared 18yo and putting them in an environment with a 20-21yo with "power". The intent is to ensure that all Cadets or Mids know that they can and should come forward BEFORE the incident occurs.

Being a good "wingman" is the current AD Air Force program. Don't put yourself in the position and don't stand by while it happens to your friend/teammate/comrade. Standing by is being an enabler of the behavior by the perpetrator and you are just as guilty and will be treated as such according to AF policy.

Again, Pima is so right about protecting each other...both women looking out for each other and thier "brothers" looking out for them also.
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I love this strategy and it, don't think this is weird, might even build more camaraderie and cement the bond. I have prepared my DD in a different way. She has a black belt in Tae Kwan Do and can bench 130!
 
I would recommend that the girls have two "wingmen". You should be able to trust a wingman, but, in reality, you can't. This goes back to the "group" theory that Pima suggested. At the academies, instead of a group of girls, it will probably be a group of guys that will be your wingmen.
 
I just wanted to chime in on this as a female member of the class of 2012. I have never felt safer than I do at USAFA. Especially as a freshman and now as well, the vast vast majority of guys I dealt with and deal with on a daily basis are pretty awesome. All the guys in my freshman squad were like my brothers. Even our cadre in basic instilled in them that it was part of their job to look out for us. Don't get me wrong, I can take pretty good care of myself, but it was nice to know I always had that support. The same goes for my current squad. Additionally, if something does happen, the resources available and the training we get from day 1 are incredible. From the first day of basic, every cadet knows how to call the SARC (Sexual Assault Response Coordinator) who is available 24 hours a day to help and advise.

All in all, from my perspective USAFA is MUCH safer than a normal college. The only reason these "scandals" seem so awful is because of the high amount of publicity we get and I truly believe that a much higher percentage of all incidents are reported here than at other colleges nationwide.
 
3 appointments that could have gone to equally qualified cadets who would not have assaulted ladies. IMO, if your going to attend a military academy there should be nothing like this happening AT ALL. I don't care if USAFA has fewer sexual assault counts than other universities, its a military academy for a reason; to be the best of the best!
 
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goldenlion, interesting question (I do not drink at all even though I am 21) however in your hypothetical situation, my understanding is that if you choose the restricted reporting option, you can control what information you reveal and still get help, the only difference is there would be no investigation. However, if I ever put myself in that situation, I would probably talk to a chaplain first because I know for a fact I would not get in trouble that way. If you want a definite answer I could probably find it, but for me that question is not too important because I will never drink.

To AFAcandidate, you are right, there should not be anything like this happening, but there is no magic formula that tells the academy "this applicant will likely commit sexual assault." Someone who appears awesome on paper and in interviews may still decide to be an idiot. I would like to hear your proposal for how to completely eliminate sexual assault here and I am sure commandant and superintendent would too, but frankly, it is most likely impossible.
 
Luigi59 said:
Just as I hate it when "Yes" last night changes to "No" two weeks later.

Unfortunately, there is that issue as well.
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I can tell you that I hate these types of cases. Sometimes the crime is not reported until well after any physical evidence is gone. There are usually no other witnesses other than the suspect and the victim and sometimes it comes down to who you believe. We rely heavily on polygraphs. BUT - You will get yourself in mucho trouble if you question your victim's truthfulness and ask him/her to submit to the test. And the majority of posters are correct, alcohol is usually involved but in Texas voluntary intoxication is not a defense to prosecution. Unfortunately for the victim their intoxication level, whether voluntary or unvoluntary usually means they can't remember much of what happened.
 
USAFA10S - You just did more to boost my confidence that my DD will be fine. As I said, I spoke with numerous alums, male and female, but none less than 5 years out of an SA, and it is good to hear the view of a person living it. Thanks.
 
USAFA10s said:
I just wanted to chime in on this as a female member of the class of 2012. I have never felt safer than I do at USAFA. Especially as a freshman and now as well, the vast vast majority of guys I dealt with and deal with on a daily basis are pretty awesome. All the guys in my freshman squad were like my brothers. Even our cadre in basic instilled in them that it was part of their job to look out for us. Don't get me wrong, I can take pretty good care of myself, but it was nice to know I always had that support. The same goes for my current squad. Additionally, if something does happen, the resources available and the training we get from day 1 are incredible. From the first day of basic, every cadet knows how to call the SARC (Sexual Assault Response Coordinator) who is available 24 hours a day to help and advise.

All in all, from my perspective USAFA is MUCH safer than a normal college. The only reason these "scandals" seem so awful is because of the high amount of publicity we get and I truly believe that a much higher percentage of all incidents are reported here than at other colleges nationwide.
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Very reassuring...thanks for providing the "real" status. I wholeheartedly agree that the press highlights the cases at the USAFA over say UC or any other college. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
 
BobBigBoy said:
Very reassuring...thanks for providing the "real" status. I wholeheartedly agree that the press highlights the cases at the USAFA over say UC or any other college. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
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Could it be that is why they call it the "Zoo". I liken it to living in a fish bowl. All eyes are upon you, whether you want them to be or not.
I also have a DD at USAFA(2014) and she feels very safe. Like the 2012 cadet stated, she also doesn't drink. My DD is not legal to drink, but wouldn't do it if she were legal. It just puts you in compromising situations that you shouldn't be in. She is not so naive as to believe, that underage drinking doesn't happen. Though she has not been in the position of eye witnessing it, she knows it happens. It would be a perfect world if all cadets followed the mantra "We will not lie, steal, or cheat......". The world is not perfect, so nor is the Academy, but they do try their best to educate and have the cadets follow the rules. These are young adults who make mistakes and grievous errors in judgment. Sexual assault on any level, should never be accepted or tolerated. I believe the Academy is doing what is in its power to correct the wrong doings of these and other cadets.
 
Luigi59 said:
The number is not 3, but 33 in a year (2010-11), which would exceed your national average of 28.

The 3 in the article are just the latest to be prosecuted.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...cadets-face-sexual-assault-charges/?tag=stack
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I stand corrected, but as pima mentioned these statistics include incidents that occurred prior to USAFA, so I don't know why those incidents are being reported as such. Also, the statistics nationwide have been increasing with higher incidents of reporting, so the number of 28 individual victims and 35 incidents/1000 women cited in the NIJ study (Dec 2000) may not reflect the current reporting trends. Suffice to say that any such incidents with a cadet at a service academy is disappointing.
 
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If anyone is interested in seeing the full Pentagon report, it is available online. I wanted to see what the actual findings were, not filtered through some news reporter. The findings are interesting in that USAFA has the most reports of the service academies but was also the most highly commended for its awareness, education and reporting protocols. But most importantly, the report (especially the appendices) serve as a learning tool for our children, boys and girls, regardless of where they go to school. As parents we can't control the behavior of others, but we can certainly help our own children behave responsibly and ethically towards others.
 
AFAcandidate said:
3 appointments that could have gone to equally qualified cadets who would not have assaulted ladies. IMO, if your going to attend a military academy there should be nothing like this happening AT ALL. I don't care if USAFA has fewer sexual assault counts than other universities, its a military academy for a reason; to be the best of the best!
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Or the appointments could have gone to three people who go on a shooting rampage at USAFA.

You don't accept perfect folks.... the hope is you shoot for graduating perfect ones though.

The "best of the best" argument is only used for people who have never been.... because I can tell you, they aren't all the "best of the best".... not at USMA, USNA, USCGA, USMMA or USAFA..... they're pretty damn good, but don't think they never fail or always do the right thing. If that's what you think, that first year will become very tough as you see cadets or midshipmen you looked up to fail to live up to your high standards. Some do. Some don't.
 
How come the accused are still attending classes. Shouldn't they be placed on leave or suspended until their trial?
 
eagleone said:
Article 120 RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(1) Rape. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.


Death Penalty - that seems about as harsh as the law can get. I thought the only thing a person can get executed for in the United States is murder.

Are there any ex-cadets on death row?
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Yes, you may be executed for crimes OTHER than murder. No, there are no "former cadets" on death row.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
BobBigBoy said:
How come the accused are still attending classes. Shouldn't they be placed on leave or suspended until their trial?
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My "guess" is the presumption of innocence.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
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