VMI, Citadel, Norwich

There is no law suit that has been publically announced by CAIR, MSA or the individual mentioned. The media have identified the parent of the student as an executive in the Florida CAIR organization. He mentioned there may be a law suit as did the national CAIR office in Washington DC. As for The Citadel decision, it had nothing to do with being "progressive," as the college pointed out in it's press statement. The Citadel Corps of Cadets is intended to be a meritocracy in which no distinction other than merit is the fundamental premise. Can't do that if everyone who claims an individual preference for cultural, ethnic, or religious affiliation is permitted to wear whatever they wish. I suppose we shall see if there is a legal challenge, and whether it succeeds. If there is a legal challenge, in my personal opinion, it will just establish that the reason for the effort in the first place was a political and legal agenda by CAIR and the MSA.

Some folks have mentioned recent DOD policy permitting unit commanders to allow uniform exceptions, if consistent with mission and unit moral, as a reason to permit exceptions to military academy uniform and personal appearance standards. Not clear to me that military service uniform standards have the same educational purpose as they do at military academies and colleges. The same premise as that described for The Citadel, has always been a fundamental Cadet/Mid-Shipman academy experience at the USMA, USNA and USAFA, and they have not changed their uniform or appearance standards to permit exceptions. The DOD policy that was the basis of an exception for an Army Engineer to wear his traditional Sikh cover, beard and long hair seems perfectly OK and logical to me as uniform regulations are much more utilitarian in the services than at academies. However, it is of note that when this same Army Engineer was a Cadet at the USMA, he was required to cut his hair, shave and wear the USMA uniform per standard. My view.
 
Jondolar said:
I see a lot of post about VMI and the Citadel. I see very few posts relating to Norwich. Right now, Norwich is on my DD's short list (something about trees and 1st ROTC).

What is it about Norwich that precludes it from getting any love on this site :)
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I was accepted and offered scholarships to VMI, VT, & Norwich. I knew I wouldn't choose VT, they didn't even give me the major I wanted; plus, I didn't want to go to a HUGE school (given the civilian pop.).
I never went to visit Norwich, despite the chances given to me. I know it's a great school, and I love the size and the weather. I ended up choosing VMI for a few reasons:
1) Distance- Family may want to visit and could help me escape given the opportunity (probably on furlough/break). Cheap travel ;)
2) Environment- VERY austere compared to the SAs and other SMCs. I'm not looking for comfort I guess. Plus, I'm considering reapplying to USMA, and the lifestyle is similar.
3) Connections/Relationships- I'm sure Norwich has great resources regardless of what path someone takes. But living in VA and knowing a number of Cadets and Alums, I always hear about, let alone witness, the bonds forged and the endless career opportunities afforded to VMI graduates, civilian or not.

The main decider at the time was really just location.


A little note, Norwich has their Presidential Scholarship which pays (trying to remember) $24k per yr. Granted, your DD has to meet the academic requirements (can't quite remember exacts), but I was awarded that, and with an ROTC scholarship, that's free school and a great career track! :)
Oh, and I remember someone on here telling me something about how Norwich covers Room (& Board??) for scholarship winners.
 
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I just wanted to clear up a few things about the Norwich/Coast Guard rivalry. It dated back to about 1920, and was nick named by the Boston Globe "The Little Army -Navy Game". For years both schools played an independent schedule but CG opted for a conference and the series for "The Mug " ended. In 2019 the rivalry will renew as NU joins CG in the same conference along with Kings Point and Maine Maritime. There was a time (he '60s) both Corps would be in attendance at the game. Back in 1976 a group of cadets made the drive to New London and stole the living breathing bear mascot bringing him back to Vermont and entered the parade ground with him as the Corps was getting ready to march to 2nd mess. The next day being Friday it was discovered CG kidnapped the NU quarterback ( I understand he was well treated in New London) and all this was covered by the Globe. It will be nice to see the rivalry renewed at NU's homecoming in 2019 which will also include the 200th anniversary of the founding of the school. Plus I might add for years NU had a great hockey rivalry with West Point but they haven't played in I would think at least 20 years.

My son was accepted at 3 of the service academies and during our CG visit I took major heat from the admission officers for being from Norwich. They even pointed out an old NU sticker left on a handrail from years ago. As many have stated the school does fly under the radar compared too VMI and The Citadel but back in the day there was a strong bond between VMI and NU grads at least those serving in the Army plus VMI would always send several cadets up to Vermont for NU's Fall formal along with West Point, Annapolis and Kings Point. As far as what a parent said at a football game well......you can't hold that against a school, and to be honest I know that I had been called worse at hockey games and just let it bounce off. I do read the post of parents who's children are not accepted at the academy they so want to attend. I was a Dad who's son jumped through all the hoops and then turned down 3. He ended up taking his kicking ability to a "normal" school, earned 2 national championship rings, took his degree in computer science and went to work in the intelligence field in Washington. As I told him, well you passed on a free 4 year education but at least the government paid for you Masters in Computer Science!
 
trackandfield08 said:
I heard a rumor that the conferences were being reorganized in a way that puts USCGA and Norwich in the same division again. Right now, that rivalry for CGA is cemented with USMMA.
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Seems a smart move to organize the conferences to optimize these rivalries. Bet they'd be great games to watch!
 
z3Guy said:
I just wanted to clear up a few things about the Norwich/Coast Guard rivalry. It dated back to about 1920, and was nick named by the Boston Globe "The Little Army -Navy Game". For years both schools played an independent schedule but CG opted for a conference and the series for "The Mug " ended. In 2019 the rivalry will renew as NU joins CG in the same conference along with Kings Point and Maine Maritime. There was a time (he '60s) both Corps would be in attendance at the game. Back in 1976 a group of cadets made the drive to New London and stole the living breathing bear mascot bringing him back to Vermont and entered the parade ground with him as the Corps was getting ready to march to 2nd mess. The next day being Friday it was discovered CG kidnapped the NU quarterback ( I understand he was well treated in New London) and all this was covered by the Globe. It will be nice to see the rivalry renewed at NU's homecoming in 2019 which will also include the 200th anniversary of the founding of the school. Plus I might add for years NU had a great hockey rivalry with West Point but they haven't played in I would think at least 20 years.

My son was accepted at 3 of the service academies and during our CG visit I took major heat from the admission officers for being from Norwich. They even pointed out an old NU sticker left on a handrail from years ago. As many have stated the school does fly under the radar compared too VMI and The Citadel but back in the day there was a strong bond between VMI and NU grads at least those serving in the Army plus VMI would always send several cadets up to Vermont for NU's Fall formal along with West Point, Annapolis and Kings Point. As far as what a parent said at a football game well......you can't hold that against a school, and to be honest I know that I had been called worse at hockey games and just let it bounce off. I do read the post of parents who's children are not accepted at the academy they so want to attend. I was a Dad who's son jumped through all the hoops and then turned down 3. He ended up taking his kicking ability to a "normal" school, earned 2 national championship rings, took his degree in computer science and went to work in the intelligence field in Washington. As I told him, well you passed on a free 4 year education but at least the government paid for you Masters in Computer Science!
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NU and USCGA will resume their rivalry in 2017, when both teams join the NEWMAC. You don't have to wait until 2019!

As mentioned, this new football league should be of interest to this board, as Norwich, Coast Guard, King's Point (USMMA), and Maine Maritime will all be members, along with Springfield College, WPI, MIT, and Catholic.
 
Smiley said:
I was accepted and offered scholarships to VMI, VT, & Norwich. I knew I wouldn't choose VT, they didn't even give me the major I wanted; plus, I didn't want to go to a HUGE school (given the civilian pop.).
I never went to visit Norwich, despite the chances given to me. I know it's a great school, and I love the size and the weather. I ended up choosing VMI for a few reasons:
1) Distance- Family may want to visit and could help me escape given the opportunity (probably on furlough/break). Cheap travel ;)
2) Environment- VERY austere compared to the SAs and other SMCs. I'm not looking for comfort I guess. Plus, I'm considering reapplying to USMA, and the lifestyle is similar.
3) Connections/Relationships- I'm sure Norwich has great resources regardless of what path someone takes. But living in VA and knowing a number of Cadets and Alums, I always hear about, let alone witness, the bonds forged and the endless career opportunities afforded to VMI graduates, civilian or not.

The main decider at the time was really just location.


A little note, Norwich has their Presidential Scholarship which pays (trying to remember) $24k per yr. Granted, your DD has to meet the academic requirements (can't quite remember exacts), but I was awarded that, and with an ROTC scholarship, that's free school and a great career track! :)
Oh, and I remember someone on here telling me something about how Norwich covers Room (& Board??) for scholarship winners.
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That was me. ROTC scholarship award winners receive the Gen. I.D. White scholarship, covering room and board - barring any changes.

The Presidential scholarship is one of the merit scholarships awarded to incoming freshmen. There are tiers ranging from approximately $20,000/yr to the $24,000 you mentioned.
 
Also available to incoming Norwich Freshman is the Future Leaders Camp Alumni scholarship, $2000 per year.
 
Jondolar said:
I see a lot of post about VMI and the Citadel. I see very few posts relating to Norwich. Right now, Norwich is on my DD's short list (something about trees and 1st ROTC).

What is it about Norwich that precludes it from getting any love on this site :)
I was thinking that maybe there is another site that draws that crowd or it just doesn't have as many candidates. Any thoughts on why the other schools get more "action"?
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If your DD is considering SMCs, be sure to look at the University of North Georgia as well. Cadets are housed in the Military Village, but have an opportunity to experience college life and earn leadership positions outside the Corps, which is a lot like regular Army life. Out-of-state cadets pay in-state tuition, and other scholarship are available as well. The campus is within walking distance of mountains, hiking, kayaking, tubing, etc. , and the climate is four distinct seasons, but not much snow. DS is a senior this year. PM me if you have any questions.
 
payitforward said:
If your DD is considering SMCs, be sure to look at the University of North Georgia as well. Cadets are housed in the Military Village, but have an opportunity to experience college life and earn leadership positions outside the Corps, which is a lot like regular Army life. Out-of-state cadets pay in-state tuition, and other scholarship are available as well. The campus is within walking distance of mountains, hiking, kayaking, tubing, etc. , and the climate is four distinct seasons, but not much snow. DS is a senior this year. PM me if you have any questions.
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UNG is definitely worth a visit!
 
So for the past three weeks I've been at CIET.
My room happens to have one kid from each SMC. Myself representing Norwich.
You can see the slight differences between each one of us, though we are all closer to each other than the rest of the platoon.

I feel that Norwich goes under the radar due to its size. It has certainly at least kept me up to speed with the others, if not put me ahead. The training I've gotten there/through the artillery battery is much more than typical cadets.
 
I have a brother-in-law who is now a Bird Col who did a full Ride ROTC at Norwich, and our mentor was the Vic-Commandant for a number of years. It is an odd beast, split between Hippies (That area draws a lot) , Rotc, and a Few "Normal folks".

Back after 9-11 He went to congress and got funding for a cyber-warfare center. So it has been up and running for some time, where as USNA is just getting started. Check it out!

It is absolutely Beautiful there, the crime rate is one of the lowest in the Nation, and the Hippies have set up lots of Artisan shops, so it is great for visiting parents :).

Last but not least, one must Never forget Mattress Sledding , although that was some time ago and has probably gone the way of USMA Pillow fights.
 
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Unbelievable, next thing you know military members will be insisting on wearing a clown suit. Where do you think it will end?
 
Last but not least, one must Never forget Mattress Sledding , although that was some time ago and has probably gone the way of USMA Pillow fights.[/QUOTE]

I assure you, we still sled. Rookie sledding was a highlight.
 
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