ddiamond
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Well said indeed, Dadof2. Both are great schools with some differences.
VMI Dropping Silver Shako?
- Thread starter ddiamond
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Amen to all of the above. These chickensxxt posts insulting the other schools seem to be the product of a couple of folks who just are trolling. They are really demeaning to two solid schools - VMI & The Citadel have far more in common with each other than any other two schools.
And your son is right- where you go to school is a minor conversation piece that pretty much counts for nothing when someone evaluates you- what they care about is what they should care about: “do you have integrity, do you do the job and are you there when I need you?”
It sure would be good if these trolling posts get reined in.
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RBI90VMI
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"But what people fail to understand is that those students have zero impact on the Corps of Cadets program that is more or less a mirror image of VMI. My Cadet doesn't know any online students and I think talks to maybe one grad student."
I for one think that the two schools are the most similar of the SMC's. The above statement however does make me feel that the Citadel is becoming less similar to VMI and moving closer to Virginia Tech or A&M. How many in the Corps of Cadets at either VA Tech or A&M know the athletes that they cheer for on Saturday or any other sport? If anything this just emphasizes that VMI needs to adapt.
I know that VMI is considering alternatives for cadets who have spent 4 years in the Corps. An idea being discussed is allowing those cadets to live off post, attend classes not in uniform (but something like Khakis and Polo shirts), continue to play sports with remaining years of eligibility. Will it happen? Who knows, but I would not be opposed to it. My only caveat is that this should apply to ALL cadets, not just athletes.
I for one think that the two schools are the most similar of the SMC's. The above statement however does make me feel that the Citadel is becoming less similar to VMI and moving closer to Virginia Tech or A&M. How many in the Corps of Cadets at either VA Tech or A&M know the athletes that they cheer for on Saturday or any other sport? If anything this just emphasizes that VMI needs to adapt.
I know that VMI is considering alternatives for cadets who have spent 4 years in the Corps. An idea being discussed is allowing those cadets to live off post, attend classes not in uniform (but something like Khakis and Polo shirts), continue to play sports with remaining years of eligibility. Will it happen? Who knows, but I would not be opposed to it. My only caveat is that this should apply to ALL cadets, not just athletes.
pa-outdoorsman
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I couldn't disagree more regarding The Citadel becoming more like Virginia Tech or Texas A&M. Think about it. Both of those schools are HUGE state universities with tens of thousands of regular undergraduates, plus a Corps of Cadets of roughly 2,000-2,500 housed in an insular fashion with a small, defined section of a HUGE campus. The Citadel, on the other hand, is a small campus COMPLETELY set up as a military school with barracks style housing. All five battalions (dorms) on campus house the Corps of Cadets, which numbers roughly 2,400 (probably a bit higher at the beginning of each fall semester, before Knobs start quitting...). If you visit The Citadel campus on any given day, the only students you are going to see are Cadets in uniform. There are NO regular (non-military) undergrads on campus, and NO housing for them. There may be a few grad students floating around (I honestly don't know when/where their classes are held), but the number would be quite small I doubt you'd really notice. Yes, there are probably 1,000-1,500 online undergrad students, but NONE of those kids are attending classes on campus. And honestly, except for those who are members of a Citadel sports team and need to be local for practices/games, most are probably not even in Charleston. I think if you visited The Citadel and asked any Cadet if they felt like they were more like VMI or more like Texas A&M, you wouldn't get a single Cadet to say A&M. At A&M, you have all the luxuries of regular college life right around the corner. 1,000 places to eat. Frat parties. Big-time college athletic events. Major concerts coming to campus. None of that exists at The Citadel. It's a very spartan life day to day in the barracks, as the Cadets will be more than happy to tell you all about. DS has repeated water damage and mold issues in his barracks, which was built in 1942. Much of the living conditions at The Citadel would NEVER fly at a regular college. Parents and students would be up in arms. I'd say the biggest difference between Cadet life at The Citadel and VMI boils down to the fact that at The Citadel, they get Charleston, S.C., to enjoy during leave, while VMI Cadets get Lexington, Va. THAT, I will grant you, is a big difference.
Regarding your last point, I am sure "changes" are coming at both schools, and many will not be well received by alumni. I suppose it's just the nature of the beast. Currently, if you are a member of the Corps of Cadets at The Citadel, you MUST complete three years (six semesters) in the barracks. If you start as a freshman, you can become a day student for senior year, live off campus and attend classes. I am honestly not sure how many students do this, but I don't think it is a large number. As far as I can tell, most of the seniors still live in the barracks. This would make sense, considering many are rank holders who serve as company commanders, XOs, academic officers, etc.
RBI90VMI
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All I'm saying is that VMI, the Citadel, Virginia Tech and Texas A&M all started as all male military only schools. The Citadel has started down that path after offering a graduate program and day and night (non cadet) programs. Will it ever grow to the point that VA Tech and A&M have? Who knows. Probably not.
pa-outdoorsman
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Logistically, there is literally no room (land) that would ever allow it. And culturally, I can't see it ever happening. The Citadel's name is literally, "The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina." Its history stretches back to the Colonial era, and the formal establishment of the school to before the Civil War. Military-style training and instruction is the core mission of the organization, and the school's leadership consists of military officers who are also almost always alumni. So, while it is true that The Citadel has embraced a number of non-traditional opportunities to broaden its reach within the higher education arena and likely ensure a more stable financial future in the process, it is difficult for me to imagine The Citadel abandoning its foundational mission.
I do suppose suppose this conversation is another example of how "perspective is everything." To someone from VMI, The Citadel might seem very different. But again, as far as I can tell, from my limited knowledge of VMI (one visit to campus and what I see on social media) and all I know about The Citadel (a pretty comprehensive knowledge of DS's time there), I don't think the day-to-day life of Cadets at the two institutions is very different. Not the same, mind you, but very similar in terms of the overall structure, discipline, challenge, etc. Each has its own unique traditions, terms, etc., but at the heart of it all, it's a hard life both places. And again, like I said, you walk up to a random Cadet on the Citadel campus and talk to them about online students or night students, I swear they are going to tell you they don't know anything about it, and they aren't just doing that because they are trying to hide something. They literally do not have interaction with those other students and it's not really relevant to their lives as Cadets. I am sure it is relevant to The Citadel in terms of the tuition money it brings in, but it's completely separate from the Corps of Cadets.
lol… we’ve been through this discussion many times before. Will El CID ever become a large university with a small Corps or even a “university” with civilian students and cadets mixed in classes and housing? Could be, but not likely in the life time of anyone on this board - unless AI wipes out out the need or usefulness of most all 4 year campus based small liberal arts schools other than the Ivys…. which seems a higher probability based on news headlines.
But to correct any misunderstanding you may have today - for the 24/25 school year (last public data) on campus, there were 2,417 cadets, attending classes and living in 5 barracks. Except for 46 DD214 veterans attending classes with cadets (some of whom are ex cadets), 31 active duty enlisted Marines (MECEPS) and a few Navy enlisted who are destined for the Nuclear Power school in Charleston, this is all that attend class together with 2,417 cadets. None of the non-cadets are housed on campus. The MECEPS and NAVY enlisted do participate in NROTC, as do some former enlisted veterans - and they are great mentors for cadets. Every other student is in the Evening School program - 1085 graduate students, and 431 undergrads, all of whom live off campus, many of whom are part time and from the local community. I think it’s a great public service for the low country of SC especially for full time teachers who can obtain their masters degrees at night and earn more money. Teachers are poorly paid and poorly treated in SC.
While I agree with some of what you've written, I have to respectfully disagree. VMI and the Corps part of el cid are very different.
As a prospect, I visited almost all the SMCs and I believe your information is dated and based on fond memorys of the way things were when you were a cadet. Please visit the schools! There are far different vibes at both these locations based on overall appearances of the students, the facilities, and the campuses. They may have been similar back in the day, but they are WAY different schools today.
I believe VMI should have their own say in whether they play for a Silver Shako or not and I don't see a lot that is "military classic" about this game.
Great points. I personally would hate to see VMI change. I have heard VMI is working nationally with DoD (now DoW) to establish a graduate program that would ONLY be available on-post and ONLY to VMI graduates. I think that could be very valuable.
JKHDelta
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Out of curiosity what year did you graduate VMI?
EEBTTF
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He didn’t. Go back thru his posts. It’s the same BS. I was a regular contributor to this forum for years and stopped because every post I made regarding The Citadel had a negative response from a single(with multiple accounts) VMI (non grad btw). This sub page of SAF is a joke because the mods refuse to get rid of the BS from a few members. @kinnem @bruno - can we clean this up so the young men and women that are interested in VMI and The Citadel can get good information without the 30 year old testosterone contest? Simple ask. Look at @vmi1991fromva , @RBI90VMI and @VMI2017+3 posts - those are the true VMI grads trying to give good information. Mods - clean it up.
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HerryMonster
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If VMI is going to drop it, I hope they don’t break it…
pa-outdoorsman
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Maybe they ought to win it before they drop it.
HerryMonster
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pa-outdoorsman
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There's one in Florence, SC, as well. And I stop every time I go visit DS, as I am addicted to the Buccee's lip balm!
It's also arguably the most luxurious place to stop for a bathroom break anywhere on the Interstate.
HerryMonster
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Yes. You can eat off the floors of those bathrooms and the red light/green light system is ingenious.
JKHDelta
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Interesting, that’s g=
Thank you, that’s really good to know. I was wondering if that might not be the case.
Thank you, that’s really good to know. I was wondering if that might not be the case.
EEBTTF you are so incredibly correct Sir, not a grad, I'm a cadet. If anyone wants a cadet point of view or opinion, please DM. Sincerely sorry I'm not towing your party line about how similar the schools are and honestly, most of us don't care one bit about the football team.
EEBTTF, if mods are going to 'clean it up,' maybe start with posters who attack others on here...
or maybe the kind of posts like this below:
HerryMonster
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Tale as old as time, Beauty and the Beast…EEBTTF you are so incredibly correct Sir, not a grad, I'm a cadet. If anyone wants a cadet point of view or opinion, please DM. Sincerely sorry I'm not towing your party line about how similar the schools are and honestly, most of us don't care one bit about the football team.
EEBTTF, if mods are going to 'clean it up,' maybe start with posters who attack others on here...
or maybe the kind of posts like this below:
vmi1991fromva
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As a VMI graduate, father of a VMI graduate, and father of a Citadel knob, I can tell you that the VMI experience is very similar to The Citadel experience, especially when considering alternatives. Yes, there are differences, mostly related to size, location, and nuance/emphasis, but big picture - insignificant. If my son makes it through his knob year (doing well so far), I’ll detail the first year experience comparison because it may be helpful. But I don’t think it’s appropriate on this string about a silver painted ice bucket.