VMI Parents Weekend Report
- Thread starter easter2
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 270
I know the topic has drifted again, but I feel it's important to resurrect this again, one last time.
Many of the things discussed on the two threads about the most recent rat riot at VMI have been beaten to death. That said, I have a few thoughts that have yet to be addressed. This will be long.
Here it is, in a nutshell: Everything about the VMI system has been designed and developed over the past 172 years to turn boys into men. The Ratline takes high school seniors and turns them into VMI Cadets. The VMI system doesn’t build character; it only reveals it. The system is not perfect, by any means. But it is good. It is the imperfections of the system that leads to nonsense like rat riots.
One of the beauties of the VMI system is what it teaches you about rules. There are so many rules that you can’t possibly follow all of them all the time for four years while maintaining your sanity. I really resented this in my first two years there, because I was deeply convinced that how closely you follow the rules is a measure of your integrity. As a Second, I began to see the beauty in it all: you learn how to evaluate a situation, consider the consequences, and make a decision about which rules have the greatest impact on mission accomplishment. Most importantly, if you do it right, you learn to take responsibility for every decision you make.
For instance, one of the rules is that you have to roll your hay and stack the racks against the wall from about 7:00am until noon (or until 11:15pm, if you’re a rat) Monday through Saturday. It’s possible as an upperclassman to earn a “haydown”, which means you don’t have to roll your hay that day. Taking an unauthorized haydown is 5 demerits. I always hated it when I had to be at formation at 7:00am, but then didn’t go to breakfast in the mess hall and didn’t have class until 9:00am. They send a member of the Guard Team around right at 7:00am to make sure everyone’s hay is up, but occasionally I’d put my hay back down after that. To me, it was worth risking 5 demerits for the sake of catching an extra 20 mins of sleep, in order to not fall asleep in class. The ultimate goal was graduation, and that nap would help me on that path. 5 demos was nothing.
Each room in barracks has a little card on the door, cleverly called a doorcard. Information is recorded on this card, such as who in the room has an authorized haydown. Information marked on the doorcard is considered to be an official statement, because Institute officials make decisions about disciplinary infractions based on what’s listed on the doorcard. So, you have a choice: take an unauthorized haydown and risk 5 demos (breaking a regular Blue Book rule), or mark the doorcard to indicate that you have an authorized haydown when you really don’t (a blatant breach of the Honor Code). Which rule are you going to mess with? In this way, you learn to evaluate the situation, consider the consequences, and make a decision about which rule—taking an unauthorized haydown, or lying—has a greater impact on mission accomplishment. I always told my rat-ties that if they were dumb enough to get caught, they deserved the penalty.
This part of the VMI education begins pretty much as soon as the rats meet their dykes, just after Matriculation Week. Early on, they’re typically too scared of Cadre and RDC to do anything. But soon enough they realize that getting yelled at and dropped for pushups really isn’t that bad. And this is where rat year actually becomes fun. Because at some point, it’s no longer about you; it’s about your Brother Rats.
At some point, sweat parties become motivating. It’s not about the stupid upperclassmen who are about to work the everlovin’ crap out of you. It’s not about how much it’s going to suck, how sore you’ll be tomorrow, or how much you wish you were hanging out with your friends from high school at a “normal” college. It’s about looking around the courtyard, seeing that you aren’t alone, and refusing to give up, just to motivate your Brother Rats—because you want to be right there with them when the going gets tough.
The traditional response to rat riots has always been punishing the rats with a sweat party. This can look different at different times… sometimes it might be a morning sweat party, where RDC wakes you up before BRC and takes you down to Cocke Hall. We had a sweat party with our own dykes once in response to a rat riot (typically dykes don’t work their rats out until Resurrection Week, unless they’re on Cadre or RDC). Sometimes they’ll extend the length of the sweat party so it lasts longer than normal. Regardless of the unique flavor designed to make the sweat party suck more, it only becomes a badge of honor for the ratmass once they reach the point where they collectively say, “What are they going to do? Give us another sweat party?”. This is why rat riots have become “tradition”—and this is why they’ve been getting more “creative” in consequences for rat riots, stepping it up a bit as far as real penalties that are really painful.
As a direct response to this rat riot, the rats of ‘12+3 had two sweat parties, 1-2 additional RDC workouts, they’ve had to wear grey blouse from 4:00pm until Taps (sounds lame, until you remember that they’re still breaking in their collars), the entire ratmass has marched at least 10 hours of PTs, and they lost the privilege of being with their dykes other than going down every morning to roll their hays. The main penalty that got the ratmass' attention was the loss of dyke privileges. The sweat parties were tough, the PTs sucked, wearing grey blouse was uncomfortable, but all of that stuff made for awesome bragging rights. Rats really have no idea how much they need their dykes until they're forced to try to survive without them. That part probably brought them together more than anything else, because they were forced to turn to their BRs for support when they couldn't go to their dykes. But this was easily the toughest week of the Ratline thus far—harder than Hell Week, even—and they didn’t have the benefit of the support and encouragement of their dykes. My guess is that loss of dyke privileges was probably the single greatest deterrent to future rat riots.
As many here (myself included) have discussed pretty much to death, many of the rats and upperclassmen alike went overboard. However, the vast majority did not. Just as one example, the Band Co. Commander took the initiative to hold his own briefing for the Band Co. Cadre, so that he was absolutely certain that the Cadre he was responsible for knew what was appropriate and what was not appropriate. The end result was that he was very proud of how his guys interacted with the rats. Only one Band rat was injured, and that was because he tripped. He didn’t brag to me about his own involvement in deterring the Band Co. rats’ involvement in the riot, though; I had to hear that from one of my grandrats who’s in Band Co.
Many of the non-Cadre upperclassman were definitely encouraging the rats to go for it—even Thirds, who knew their own hays were at risk. My grandrat in Band Co. said that there were so many Seconds and Thirds encouraging them that they were all piling up on top of each other trying to get down the stairs. The only thing that stopped them was when the Band Co. CO screamed over all of them, "I'm a member of your Dykes Class, and I don't want you to do this! Get back up to the fourth stoop!" At that point, the Band rats realized they would be flipping the proverbial bird to their CO (and one of their Dykes), so they turned around out of respect for him. From what I gather, this kind of (positive, verbal) deterrence was a lot more widespread than any kind of physical restraint.
As another example of professionalism in action, here’s a direct quotation from a message I got from a First Class Cadre member who was stationed by a stairwell in Third Barracks:
As for the Cadre and RDC guys who went overboard during the rat riot, yes, it was uncalled for. But I am convinced that it was the result of pure impulse (poor decisions made in the heart of the moment), not sadism. I think this is what Keydet was getting at in his posts.
Even in a place like VMI, with the inherent power structure being what it is, very few people intentionally abuse their authority. More often than not, they get carried away while thinking they’re doing the right thing.
In general, the rats I’ve spoken with feel that the whole thing—both the rat riot, and the ensuing mayhem—has been blown out of proportion. In general, the Firsts I’ve spoken with do not agree.
I didn’t have a chance to touch base with all of the women in 2012 when I was there on Saturday, but the ones I did speak with feel that the use of force toward female rats was disproportionate. My impression—which is based both on my experience, and on what I know of VMI Cadre and RDC—is that this is not inherently an issue of discrimination. Obviously I haven’t been involved in any of the investigations, but I do not believe that any of the Cadre or RDC guys intentionally singled out the female rats to be unduly rough with them. However, it stands to reason that you don't need as much force to stop a 130lb female rat as you do a 190lb male rat. In a school that's still struggling to figure out equity vs. equality—and for the record, I think this is a good, healthy struggle that VMI is still handling with grace and professionalism—I’m confident that no one mentioned this during any of the pre-riot briefings, simply because everyone is so focused on making sure women receive the same VMI experience that men do. If a higher percentage of female rats were injured when compared to the male rats, it probably has more to do with Cadre and RDC not quite recognizing the difference. Because to them, a rat is a rat.
Again, everything about the VMI system has been designed and developed over the past 172 years to turn boys into men. The Ratline takes high school seniors and turns them into VMI Cadets. The VMI system doesn’t build character; it only reveals it. The system is not perfect, by any means. But it is good.
And it is getting better all the time.
Thanks,
-jmb-
Many of the things discussed on the two threads about the most recent rat riot at VMI have been beaten to death. That said, I have a few thoughts that have yet to be addressed. This will be long.
Here it is, in a nutshell: Everything about the VMI system has been designed and developed over the past 172 years to turn boys into men. The Ratline takes high school seniors and turns them into VMI Cadets. The VMI system doesn’t build character; it only reveals it. The system is not perfect, by any means. But it is good. It is the imperfections of the system that leads to nonsense like rat riots.
One of the beauties of the VMI system is what it teaches you about rules. There are so many rules that you can’t possibly follow all of them all the time for four years while maintaining your sanity. I really resented this in my first two years there, because I was deeply convinced that how closely you follow the rules is a measure of your integrity. As a Second, I began to see the beauty in it all: you learn how to evaluate a situation, consider the consequences, and make a decision about which rules have the greatest impact on mission accomplishment. Most importantly, if you do it right, you learn to take responsibility for every decision you make.
For instance, one of the rules is that you have to roll your hay and stack the racks against the wall from about 7:00am until noon (or until 11:15pm, if you’re a rat) Monday through Saturday. It’s possible as an upperclassman to earn a “haydown”, which means you don’t have to roll your hay that day. Taking an unauthorized haydown is 5 demerits. I always hated it when I had to be at formation at 7:00am, but then didn’t go to breakfast in the mess hall and didn’t have class until 9:00am. They send a member of the Guard Team around right at 7:00am to make sure everyone’s hay is up, but occasionally I’d put my hay back down after that. To me, it was worth risking 5 demerits for the sake of catching an extra 20 mins of sleep, in order to not fall asleep in class. The ultimate goal was graduation, and that nap would help me on that path. 5 demos was nothing.
Each room in barracks has a little card on the door, cleverly called a doorcard. Information is recorded on this card, such as who in the room has an authorized haydown. Information marked on the doorcard is considered to be an official statement, because Institute officials make decisions about disciplinary infractions based on what’s listed on the doorcard. So, you have a choice: take an unauthorized haydown and risk 5 demos (breaking a regular Blue Book rule), or mark the doorcard to indicate that you have an authorized haydown when you really don’t (a blatant breach of the Honor Code). Which rule are you going to mess with? In this way, you learn to evaluate the situation, consider the consequences, and make a decision about which rule—taking an unauthorized haydown, or lying—has a greater impact on mission accomplishment. I always told my rat-ties that if they were dumb enough to get caught, they deserved the penalty.
This part of the VMI education begins pretty much as soon as the rats meet their dykes, just after Matriculation Week. Early on, they’re typically too scared of Cadre and RDC to do anything. But soon enough they realize that getting yelled at and dropped for pushups really isn’t that bad. And this is where rat year actually becomes fun.
Because at some point, it’s no longer about you; it’s about your Brother Rats.At some point, sweat parties become motivating. It’s not about the stupid upperclassmen who are about to work the everlovin’ crap out of you. It’s not about how much it’s going to suck, how sore you’ll be tomorrow, or how much you wish you were hanging out with your friends from high school at a “normal” college. It’s about looking around the courtyard, seeing that you aren’t alone, and refusing to give up, just to motivate your Brother Rats—because you want to be right there with them when the going gets tough.
The traditional response to rat riots has always been punishing the rats with a sweat party. This can look different at different times… sometimes it might be a morning sweat party, where RDC wakes you up before BRC and takes you down to Cocke Hall. We had a sweat party with our own dykes once in response to a rat riot (typically dykes don’t work their rats out until Resurrection Week, unless they’re on Cadre or RDC). Sometimes they’ll extend the length of the sweat party so it lasts longer than normal. Regardless of the unique flavor designed to make the sweat party suck more, it only becomes a badge of honor for the ratmass once they reach the point where they collectively say, “What are they going to do? Give us another sweat party?”. This is why rat riots have become “tradition”—and this is why they’ve been getting more “creative” in consequences for rat riots, stepping it up a bit as far as real penalties that are really painful.
As a direct response to this rat riot, the rats of ‘12+3 had two sweat parties, 1-2 additional RDC workouts, they’ve had to wear grey blouse from 4:00pm until Taps (sounds lame, until you remember that they’re still breaking in their collars), the entire ratmass has marched at least 10 hours of PTs, and they lost the privilege of being with their dykes other than going down every morning to roll their hays. The main penalty that got the ratmass' attention was the loss of dyke privileges. The sweat parties were tough, the PTs sucked, wearing grey blouse was uncomfortable, but all of that stuff made for awesome bragging rights. Rats really have no idea how much they need their dykes until they're forced to try to survive without them. That part probably brought them together more than anything else, because they were forced to turn to their BRs for support when they couldn't go to their dykes. But this was easily the toughest week of the Ratline thus far—harder than Hell Week, even—and they didn’t have the benefit of the support and encouragement of their dykes. My guess is that loss of dyke privileges was probably the single greatest deterrent to future rat riots.
As many here (myself included) have discussed pretty much to death, many of the rats and upperclassmen alike went overboard. However, the vast majority did not. Just as one example, the Band Co. Commander took the initiative to hold his own briefing for the Band Co. Cadre, so that he was absolutely certain that the Cadre he was responsible for knew what was appropriate and what was not appropriate. The end result was that he was very proud of how his guys interacted with the rats. Only one Band rat was injured, and that was because he tripped. He didn’t brag to me about his own involvement in deterring the Band Co. rats’ involvement in the riot, though; I had to hear that from one of my grandrats who’s in Band Co.
Many of the non-Cadre upperclassman were definitely encouraging the rats to go for it—even Thirds, who knew their own hays were at risk. My grandrat in Band Co. said that there were so many Seconds and Thirds encouraging them that they were all piling up on top of each other trying to get down the stairs. The only thing that stopped them was when the Band Co. CO screamed over all of them, "I'm a member of your Dykes Class, and I don't want you to do this! Get back up to the fourth stoop!" At that point, the Band rats realized they would be flipping the proverbial bird to their CO (and one of their Dykes), so they turned around out of respect for him. From what I gather, this kind of (positive, verbal) deterrence was a lot more widespread than any kind of physical restraint.
As another example of professionalism in action, here’s a direct quotation from a message I got from a First Class Cadre member who was stationed by a stairwell in Third Barracks:
As for the Cadre and RDC guys who went overboard during the rat riot, yes, it was uncalled for. But I am convinced that it was the result of pure impulse (poor decisions made in the heart of the moment), not sadism. I think this is what Keydet was getting at in his posts.
Even in a place like VMI, with the inherent power structure being what it is, very few people intentionally abuse their authority. More often than not, they get carried away while thinking they’re doing the right thing.
In general, the rats I’ve spoken with feel that the whole thing—both the rat riot, and the ensuing mayhem—has been blown out of proportion. In general, the Firsts I’ve spoken with do not agree.
I didn’t have a chance to touch base with all of the women in 2012 when I was there on Saturday, but the ones I did speak with feel that the use of force toward female rats was disproportionate. My impression—which is based both on my experience, and on what I know of VMI Cadre and RDC—is that this is not inherently an issue of discrimination. Obviously I haven’t been involved in any of the investigations, but I do not believe that any of the Cadre or RDC guys intentionally singled out the female rats to be unduly rough with them. However, it stands to reason that you don't need as much force to stop a 130lb female rat as you do a 190lb male rat. In a school that's still struggling to figure out equity vs. equality—and for the record, I think this is a good, healthy struggle that VMI is still handling with grace and professionalism—I’m confident that no one mentioned this during any of the pre-riot briefings, simply because everyone is so focused on making sure women receive the same VMI experience that men do. If a higher percentage of female rats were injured when compared to the male rats, it probably has more to do with Cadre and RDC not quite recognizing the difference. Because to them, a rat is a rat.
Again, everything about the VMI system has been designed and developed over the past 172 years to turn boys into men. The Ratline takes high school seniors and turns them into VMI Cadets. The VMI system doesn’t build character; it only reveals it. The system is not perfect, by any means. But it is good.
And it is getting better all the time.
Thanks,
-jmb-
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 270
One more thing on this part...
The two female rats I know personally who were injured during the rat riot sustained their injuries from tripping or slipping on the stoop, not from Cadre, RDC, or their Brother Rats. They were not involved in any of the physical altercations, and they were helped by upperclassmen who made sure they were checked out by EMTs.
I wanted to clarify this because I think I left too much open to question in the last post.
Thanks,
-jmb-
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/report-27-cadets-injured-brawl-us-air-force-academy
Not so sanctimonius now, eh?
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 3,059
I'm not sure why anyone is re-opening a year old thread on something that was handled appropriately and quickly over a year ago. The VMI Commandant handled this pretty well last year by all accounts, just as I'm sure that the Commandant at USAFA will act with the appropriate level of balance and understanding with the silliness that occurred there.
Of more current import- I am interested in hearing about how Parents Weekend 2012 went for those new VMI parents aboard?? Oddly enough- I found myself missing that 11 hr drive from Massachusetts to Lexington to get to VMI in time for the 4 oclock Friday parade (though I didn't miss the football beatdown- they really have to do something about the football program- it's gone from merely mediocre to truly bad from what I can see following them on line.
)
Last edited:
Parents Weekend was great! I won't mention the football game, except to say that we really enjoyed watching our son in Echo Co. do the "Echo Shuffle" during the march down to the field. We only live 2 1/2 hours away, so we bought season tickets and have been going down for the day during the home football games. But this time it was wonderful to spend two whole days with our DS! But he had to share Parents Weekend with his sister, who goes to Liberty U. (an hour away), and also had Parents Weekend at the same time. But we brought her to VMI so she could experience tailgating, and (alas ...) the football game.Of more current import- I am interested in hearing about how Parents Weekend 2012 went for those new VMI parents aboard?? Oddly enough- I found myself missing that 11 hr drive from Massachusetts to Lexington to get to VMI in time for the 4 oclock Friday parade (though I didn't miss the football beatdown- they really have to do something about the football program- it's gone from merely mediocre to truly bad from what I can see following them on line.
Last edited by a moderator:
Goarmymom is right, Parents Weekend was great! I loved watching my first parade, meeting lots of other Rat Moms, tailgating, and of course, spending time with my DS. Bruno, you would have enjoyed seeing the Rat Mom pride. Many of us are on a FB group and purchased specially-made red, white, and gold scarfs to show our unity. Ninety-two of us had our picture taken in front of Preston Library and rumor has it that VMI is putting it in an upcoming publication.