VMI V CITADEL

Joined
Apr 10, 2022
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I am a service academy applicant for the class of 2027. I had a quick question in regards to the SMC's. In the case that the service academy option does not work out, as a backup option I am considering the Citadel and VMI amongst other SMC's because of the strong corps of cadet programs offered. I wanted to know what other people thought about the two options. How do they compare to each other? If we have any alumni in the forum, I want to know ya'lls personal experience / opinion about the two schools corps of cadet program. If I do happen to attend one of these two universities, it would be through ROTC if that factors into the comparison.

Thank ya'll so much in advance.
 
I'm currently a 2nd Classman at VMI (or Junior), so I feel like my experience is applicable.

I'm not going to sugarcoat it-the Ratline is tough. Short nights, long days, rigorous exercise, and a lot of stress-and that's just being a Rat without academics thrown into the mix. Life at VMI is about as spartan as you can get it at a collegiate institution. You have constant inspections (room and uniform), the rooms are essentially the bare necessities, and the academics are difficult, especially if you're a STEM Major. Additionally, VMI currently is the only SMC to maintain a true single sanction Honor Code in the United States at this point.

As for ROTC, the Blue Ridge Battalion is the largest Army ROTC program in the US, and the instructors genuinely care about your success. ROTC has been a great experience for me, and I was lucky enough to pick up a 2-Year scholarship at the beginning of the semester. The contracts are there, you just have to work hard for them.

However, there are the lighter moments. Throughout the Ratline, and across your 4 years here, you'll make bonds that you'll carry for the rest of your life. Life at the Institute is stressful, hard work, and quite frankly sometimes exhausting-but the men and women around you make it worth it. I have friends here that are more like my brothers, and I can say with absolute certainty I'd do just about anything for them.

Either way, if you have to choose between the two, they're both great choices. I've got a lot of respect for my counterparts at The Citadel, even if I am a just a bit biased towards Mother I. As for some differences, I'm 90% sure that Knobs don't have to keep their heads shaved the entire year now-Rats do. The Citadel is in Charleston, a very beautiful college town. VMI is in the middle of nowhere in the Shenandoah Valley. Other than that, I don't really know much, but I'm sure someone who goes/graduated there can help you out on that.

Hope this helps and if you have any questions feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can help!
 
If you click on my profile, you can read a number of my past posts from while I was there, and to a lesser extent, post-graduation. Feel free to ask any specific questions or DM…not intending to be dismissive, but my general thoughts are covered in past posts. Always happy to talk about The I. Agree with both of the previous posters as well.
 
I am a service academy applicant for the class of 2027. I had a quick question in regards to the SMC's. In the case that the service academy option does not work out, as a backup option I am considering the Citadel and VMI amongst other SMC's because of the strong corps of cadet programs offered. I wanted to know what other people thought about the two options. How do they compare to each other? If we have any alumni in the forum, I want to know ya'lls personal experience / opinion about the two schools corps of cadet program. If I do happen to attend one of these two universities, it would be through ROTC if that factors into the comparison.

Thank ya'll so much in advance.
Be sure to ask questions of EEBTTF as he has a good perspective on the smaller SMC colleges, having graduated from Norwich and with a son currently at The Citadel on a 4 year NROTC/Marine Corps option scholarship. Hoping some current cadets or recent grads will chime in to help you.

I graduated from The Citadel many decades ago, but volunteer with the Admissions Office, so can provide some perspective on the college today. Seriously recommend you visit both VMI and Citadel as while they have a similar focus on a small corps of cadets, you need to see and experience the campus of each for yourself. VMI is located in the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Va. Citadel is located in the low country of SC just outside of historic Charleston. Both VMI and Citadel are small, values based liberal arts colleges with strong emphasis on ethical leadership and character building experiences, and have strong traditions and alumni networks.

At The Citadel, a majority of cadets major in STEM, Engineering or Business degree programs, although Intelligence & Security Studies and Criminal Justice are also a popular majors. Both VMI and Citadel have a rigorous freshman year - The Citadel calls it the Fourth Class System, VMI calls it the Rat Line. Part physical and emotional challenge, and part instilling traditions, the experience is intense. All cadets live on campus in barracks and are subject to a military organization, and a strict honor code. As noted above, VMI prides itself on maintaining a spartan experience. The Citadel has in recent years tried to make living conditions more “pleasant“ - air conditioning in most barracks and classrooms, and - there is a Chick-Fil-A and Starbucks on campus - to the chagrin of Old Corps types. At The Citadel, all cadets must take leadership and ethics courses at the college’s Krause Center in addition to their academic and ROTC courses. As for ROTC commissioning programs, VMI is typically among the top one or two in programs commissioning officers through ROTC. Citadel is typically among the top three or four programs in numbers of officer commissions. I believe both are heavily focused on Army ROTC, Although The Citadel NROTC program has a long history of producing Marine Officers and typically has fifteen or twenty active duty Marine NCOs attending classes and participating in its NROTC/MO programs as MECEPS. See for example the following article in the Maine Corps Association’s Leatherneck magazine:

Beat of luck to you in your application to federal service academies. They offer a priceless education. Any of the SMCs can offer you a good alternative.
 
My brother and I went to VMI, but I have visited the Citadel on several occasions as a cadet, adult, and father. Additionally, one of my good friends is a Citadel alumnus. I currently have one son at VMI and another son considering the Citadel. Charleston vs. Lexington is the biggest difference as stated above. Citadel is bigger than VMI but still relatively small. Citadel has multiple barracks whereas VMI has one barracks in three sections. Citadel has mostly two- and three-man rooms. VMI has three-, four, and five-man rooms. VMI academically is a little harder to get into. VMI was originally an Engineering School, but Liberal Arts is more than half of the majors now. Citadel has more major selections and the cybersecurity program has gotten attention. ROTC is built into the academic program whether you commission or not at both schools. The Citadel has a lot of add-on financial packages that go with the ROTC scholarships that VMI currently does not. Citadel also offers a graduate school. Citadel "appears" to stress company unity stronger than VMI. VMI "appears" to stress class unity stronger than the Citadel. VMI's honor system is still single sanction and very rigid. Citadel's honor system is prominent as well. Each school has its hardships. But in the end, everything is relative, and you will be challenged by either. Furthermore, the vast majority of alumni are proud of their school. So much of VMI (and I assume the Citadel) is what YOU make it. When I was sucking it up in the ratline, I fantasized about a lot of things, transferring to the Citadel to be a Knob was not one of them. For all those that say VMI is beautiful, you sound like my mother! I really commend the Citadel for some of the proactive measures that they have done to increase enrollment.
 
I was born and raised in Charleston, SC and I choose VMI. My son is currently a rat at VMI.

I have nothing but good things to say about both schools, like vmi1991fromva says, it's what YOU make it. I believe had I choose the Citadel instead of VMI I would have been just as happy with my decision and proud of my choice.

Charleston is absolutely beautiful but so is Lexington. For me, part of my decision was the desire to get away from Charleston.

I have heard that the additional financial packages to go along with ROTC scholarships will be coming to VMI soon, just don't know how soon.

Rah Va Mil!!! '90 & 23+3
 
There are some 7 man rooms this year which I don't understand considering how small this year's rat mass is.
We’d been stuck with Rats on Third Stoop until attrition set in with how big some of the recent Rat Masses were, not to mention some of the popular majors were struggling to offer enough sections of classes… We were making it work, but a 500+ Rat Mass was well beyond intended capacity.
 
I’d say choose VMI. Very long tradition with USMC and Army, but high success in AF, Navy, and Coast Guard as well.
VMI is the only SMC where every graduate was a cadet. That common experience is rare and only matched by Service Academies.
 
sorry but wrong, The Citadel has over 1400 cadets in the Army ROTC program; almost as many as the entire VMI corps of cadets.
Each year, with only 30% of the Citadel corps members (not including citadel’s night/day/grad school student body) commissioning into the military, it seems unlikely that it would be the largest. Maybe special students (non-commissioning) are included your post?
 
Each year, with only 30% of the Citadel corps members (not including citadel’s night/day/grad school student body) commissioning into the military, it seems unlikely that it would be the largest. Maybe special students (non-commissioning) are included your post?
ah so NAS/Repatriot/Landy91/Billyboy must have yet another new alias. Go ahead and stir the pot some more, nobody cares.
 
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I assume you have applied for an ROTC scholarship as you were looking at the academies. If that is the case, and you get added to the wait list then you can use that as a negotiating tactic. I was offered a 4 year ROTC scholarship to the citadel, but only a 3 year go VMI. I was leaning toward VMi if I could get the same scholarship. I am not 100 precent sure if this is still the case, but back then emery riddle and schools like VMI had access to the list of cadets who were both waitlisted and deemed qualified to go to the Academy. So I casually mentioned to the ROTC officer, who called me to see if I was going to accept the three year scholarship, from VMI. I informed him that I had a 4 year offer to the citadel and that I would likely go that route if West Point didn’t select off the waiting list. The next day I got a four year offer from VMI.

I wish I could say I was being super clever but I kind of just accidentally negotiated well by being straight forward. Point being when I casually referenced being on the waiting list, and that I was going to go the citadel if a better offer was not made, I created sense of urgency. But more importantly I later learned that schools like VMI work with the academy to find the top not admitted but qualified cadets. Or at least they use to. That likely gets used more to help actively recruit stronger black and Hispanic cadets for scholarships. But even if you’re a standard white dude like myself if you get a lessor offer from the school you prefer but the other one is interested then make sure to proactively call the ROTC at the other school and let them know what the other school is offering.

Second. I did not get a rejection letter from West Point until the end of may. The letter I got in December said I was fully qualified and placed on the waiting list. It stated that I would find out by the end of may which was accurate. But reading into the regulations and the process on how those slots are filled they can accept you up to right up to matriculation.

For West Point I believe the Secretary of the Army gets a list of all the empty congressional slots to scrub and fill vacancies from. He also has slots he can use as well I believe. The superintendent also has 50 slots for whom ever he wants OML or otherwise. Two thirds of those 300 or so wait list appointments that are filled to meet sorts team quotas so if you want to get selected and are not going to be a varsity player then trying to directly contact the secretary or the superintendent might be worth the Hail Mary. If you want to be more cautious wait until you get an actual rejection letter then call a week or two later because you don’t have much to lose. Even if you get an official rejection letter by the end of may or early June some other candidates might have dropped out last minute where they would suddely technically be appointed.

If you have multiple nominations like I had with both a congressional and an JROTC honor unit nomination then there is more of a chance that an opening will ccurr that needs a vacancy filled. Even if they send you a letter at the end of may the policy says they can fill the slot up until the last minute. So they can technically pull you off the waiting list up until the end right before the class matriculates. That would be worth a last minute call.
 
I assume you have applied for an ROTC scholarship as you were looking at the academies. If that is the case, and you get added to the wait list then you can use that as a negotiating tactic. I was offered a 4 year ROTC scholarship to the citadel, but only a 3 year go VMI. I was leaning toward VMi if I could get the same scholarship. I am not 100 precent sure if this is still the case, but back then emery riddle and schools like VMI had access to the list of cadets who were both waitlisted and deemed qualified to go to the Academy. So I casually mentioned to the ROTC officer, who called me to see if I was going to accept the three year scholarship, from VMI. I informed him that I had a 4 year offer to the citadel and that I would likely go that route if West Point didn’t select off the waiting list. The next day I got a four year offer from VMI.

I wish I could say I was being super clever but I kind of just accidentally negotiated well by being straight forward. Point being when I casually referenced being on the waiting list, and that I was going to go the citadel if a better offer was not made, I created sense of urgency. But more importantly I later learned that schools like VMI work with the academy to find the top not admitted but qualified cadets. Or at least they use to. That likely gets used more to help actively recruit stronger black and Hispanic cadets for scholarships. But even if you’re a standard white dude like myself if you get a lessor offer from the school you prefer but the other one is interested then make sure to proactively call the ROTC at the other school and let them know what the other school is offering.

Second. I did not get a rejection letter from West Point until the end of may. The letter I got in December said I was fully qualified and placed on the waiting list. It stated that I would find out by the end of may which was accurate. But reading into the regulations and the process on how those slots are filled they can accept you up to right up to matriculation.

For West Point I believe the Secretary of the Army gets a list of all the empty congressional slots to scrub and fill vacancies from. He also has slots he can use as well I believe. The superintendent also has 50 slots for whom ever he wants OML or otherwise. Two thirds of those 300 or so wait list appointments that are filled to meet sorts team quotas so if you want to get selected and are not going to be a varsity player then trying to directly contact the secretary or the superintendent might be worth the Hail Mary. If you want to be more cautious wait until you get an actual rejection letter then call a week or two later because you don’t have much to lose. Even if you get an official rejection letter by the end of may or early June some other candidates might have dropped out last minute where they would suddely technically be appointed.

If you have multiple nominations like I had with both a congressional and an JROTC honor unit nomination then there is more of a chance that an opening will ccurr that needs a vacancy filled. Even if they send you a letter at the end of may the policy says they can fill the slot up until the last minute. So they can technically pull you off the waiting list up until the end right before the class matriculates. That would be worth a last minute call.
Not sure what it was like when you attended school, but my DS received a 4yr ROTC scholarship for Colorado School of Mines. He asked if he could have the scholarship transferred to The Citadel since that is where he really wanted to go to school. All he had to do was write an email to the Army requesting the scholarship be transferred, he received a reply back in a couple of days with the Army ROTC scholarship being transferred to The Citadel. He is now going into his 3rd year there.
 
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