VP Nominations - Last Chance

Pima - There are only 535 MOC's. 535 x 5 =2675. It seems that it may be politically easier to reduce some of the other appointment sources than tell Congressman XYZ none of your nominees are going to get appointed.
 
You missed the point...5 is tops regarding charges. Not every MOC always has 5 at any given time. A cadet charged to them can drop over Winter, spring, summer break, thus, even if they had 5, they could be at 4, maybe even 3. Additionally, if they apptd 2 LY for Class of 14, had 1 for 13, 2 for 12. They would not have any for 15, due to the fact they had nobody for 11.

Your math also doesn't work...let's say they all have 5, that would equal 2675, divide by 4 yrs and you are looking at 669 per yr...remember it is not 5 per yr, but 5 at anytime. The point is it basically is 1 per yr, with a few that have 2.

I do agree it would be easier not to use the Supe charges compared to not giving an MOC apptmt.

Yet, I believe Supes have 85, that still leaves them short.

I know without a doubt that at the Pentagon each SA has an office. Their job is to brief the Hill (all MOCs) on the system and how many charges they have available. This is done in July and January.

Walk into that office and you will see color coded cards for yr groups and MOCs.

They (MOCs) don't fly by the seat of their pants when it comes to the SAs they have great input and advice regarding the needs of the SA.

I am not a betting woman, but I would bet, from what I have seen on this site, MOCs are following their lead regarding the amt of noms for the AFA.
 
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Pima, I've heard about the class size reduction. I think I'm going to send in a letter of reccomendation that was written for me to send to my senator (I ended up not sending it, long story) to the AFA today. It's from a parent of an alum. I'll also update the AFA that I just completed my Eagle Scout project and Eagle Scout rank. Will this increase my chances of them giving me a VP nom?
 
By the way, that parent of the alum happens to be a VERY well-respected physics teacher in my state.
 
Your point is understood. If there were no cadets that washed out or left early for any other reason each MOC would have 1 appt each year and 2 every 4th year for an average of 1.25/year. 1.25/yr x 535 MOC's = 669 appointees/yr (on average) due to MOC noms. That still leaves a lot of appointments. from other sources. I am sure MOC's will share the pain but I would guess not equally (possibly by not replacing as many of there early vacated slots).
I think we hi-jacked the thread.
 
thehoaxbuster,

I don't understand your infatuation with AFA. I guess a sense that you have not real military experience, neither Navy or Air Force.

I know I am not supposed to try to understand teenagers, but you are not making sense at all.

First of all, you are not really picking USNA or AFA, you are picking your military career for at least five years.

What do you want to do in the military? If you want to be a pilot, you can be a pilot in the Navy. Don't forget that Air Force is losing real pilot positions - the future for the Air Force is less airplanes and more umanned aerial vehicles.

Question - Why a service academy?
Answer - To serve our country by becoming a comissisoned officer

Question - What is better attending a service academy or attending a regular college
Answer - Attending a servic academy, no disrespect to other colleges.

Question - Are you telling me that if you attend USNA, you can't server your country
Answer - If answer is yes, you don't deserve to attend a service academy.

It almost seems like you are looking for reason to turn down your appointment to USNA.
 
Couple of points. First, each superintendent has available up to fifty nominations per year. This number is set by law (10 USC 9342(d), in the case of the AFA). Second, not every MOC has a full slate of five cadets at the AFA, and not every MOC uses his/her full level of nominations every year. As a result, there are several MOCs with significantly more than two cadets/mids at each academy in the first year class, and substantially more than five in attendance at any one time. These additional students are considered qualified alternates, with nominations, and are appointed to fill the class as necessary.

As for whether to submit the additional letter of recommendation, it can't hurt but it is very hard to see how it will help particularly if the writer is nothing more than the father of a friend.
 
First of all, as noted above, no one should accept an appointment to any SA if he/she isn't fully committed. 99% of the time, the outcome will not be good.

That said, it is important to consider why one is attending a particular SA and why one wants to serve in that branch of the military. In my case, I applied to -- and had the good fortune to be accepted to -- both USCGA and USNA. At first, I was sure I'd attend USCGA. Then, after visiting, I realized that (for a number of reasons that aren't relevant here but in no way are negative about USCGA), I decided that USNA was the better "fit" for me. However, had I not been accepted to USNA, I would have attended USCGA and probably would have been extremely happy as a USCG officer.

For Hoaxbuster, decide now -- USNA or USAFA or neither. You have to decide eventually, so do it now. If USAFA is your only choice, then I would immediately be up front with your ALO and USAFA -- tell them that, originally, you thought USNA was your first choice but that for [whatever reasons], that has now changed and you know that USAFA is the right/best place for you. It either will work or it won't. If it doesn't, then you pursue Plan B and consider reapplying.

However, if you're still "on the fence" between USNA and USAFA and just want to be able to have a decision to make in April, don't waste everyone's time. [Sorry, just being honest]. To go through the whole USAFA thing and then turn around and pick USNA at the last minute . . .:rolleyes:

I realize this is a lot to deal with at your age. I suggest you talk with your parents, your ALO, your BGO and others you trust and respect about what you want and the best place for you. And, quite honestly, that probably isn't on this thread.

Best of luck to you!
 
Don't forget that Air Force is losing real pilot positions - the future for the Air Force is less airplanes and more umanned aerial vehicles.
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Actually this yr is suppose to be one of the highest amount of pilots being placed in the pipeline in a long time and yes, UAVs are a big part of that. However, it is not as if they are losing pilots, their actually adding more on because of the UAV. Also remember the AF has 2 new fighters...22 and 35 and due to the delay of the 35, they will be holding on longer to the 16.

Now back on topic.

As everyone has stated you need to make a decision. Right now everything is out of your control and at the mercy of the SAs.

There will be a cadet that is charged to the VP, and traditionally the cadet that gets it, gets it because that is the only way the SA can pull them in from the charging perspective.

It is just important for every poster and lurker to understand do not get behind the 8 ball when it comes to requesting noms, because it can come back and bite you in the arse. Request every nom possible as soon as possible. Also, make sure that before the close out date comes you verify that all of your paperwork that was submitted, was received. That falls on you, not the nom source. They are probably not going to call you and say OBTW you are missing this, can you please send it.

It is just as important that if you are unsure of the SA you want when requesting noms from the sources available to you, that you don't place all of your eggs in one basket.

MOCs typically ask you to rack and stack your preferences. If you are willing to go to USMA, AFA or USNA equally than don't put on each application the same rank order, because all they now see is that is your number 1 choice. they can't read your mind that they are all equal. You said this is my top choice, they gave you your top choice.

Finally, with the force reshaping, it is important to drill into your cranium...nothing says MUST have 5 at all times, it states MAY have5 at all times. Plus, what you are truly going to see is probably something along the lines of a slower Mass Mailing in March...they(talking AFA) are going to probably wait and send out in waves, if candidate Jones says no, they will move down the list to candidate Smith. Instead of offering to both at the same time and working out the numbers later.

Good luck.
 
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Pima said:
Actually this yr is suppose to be one of the highest amount of pilots being placed in the pipeline in a long time and yes, UAVs are a big part of that. However, it is not as if they are losing pilots, their actually adding more on because of the UAV. Also remember the AF has 2 new fighters...22 and 35 and due to the delay of the 35, they will be holding on longer to the 16.
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We are definitely going off topic, but are UAV pilots real pilots? I can hear it "when I was in my command and control suite in somewhere US flying my UAV in Iraq the system crashed and had to reboot the system vs when I was flying 10,000 feet and my engine malfunction light came on . . ."
 
I pm'd you.

Back on topic... apply for every nom available as soon as you can. The way to find yourself like the OP is by being over confident and thinking you won't need it.

Sorry hoax, but that is the harsh truth. You have noms in your pocket for the USNA, and yet now you are running around like a chicken without its cranium to get it for the AFA.

I actually get the changed my mind along the way. What concerns me more is your short sightedness.

I think there is actually more to this story than you are willing to express on the forum. I respect that.

I am just saying, lesson for future candidates, don't expect your BGO or ALO to fight for you with the SA in Feb, when the last 6 months you showed no interest in that SA and other qualified candidates fought tooth and nail for that one SA.

ALO/BGO recs are a part of that almighty WCS.

Harsh? YES! However, the reality is in the military's eyes when you hit 18, you are an adult, and expect you to understand the real world is harsh.

We are all here to assist, but at least for me I am left with these questions:

1. Why didn't you apply for the VP when you applied for your MOCS?
2. Why didn't you spread your choices for the MOCs when it came to racking and stacking?
3. Why did you talk to your BGO first about the AFA regarding the VP AFA nom, and not your ALO?
4. Why the AFA now if for 6-7 mos you were USNA?

Answer these questions, and you will be able to decide if the reason you desire that VP nom is truly about the AFA or just fear that you won't get a USNA apptmt.

College be at the AFA or USNA is only 4 yrs, AD will be at least 5. UPT way longer. It will stink to be on a boat when you want to be on land. It will stink to be on land when you want to be on a boat.
 
1. Had not comprehension of the process of the VP nom. Thought it was WAY too hard to get and therefore not worth the trouble... Dumb me.
2. I was under the impression that it was "dishonest" to spread my choices for MOCs
3. I actually inquired both of them simultaneously. My BGO just responded first.
4. I'm still on the fence, but have been leaning more and more toward AFA upon learning so much more about both of them than I have before. I'll also be visiting soon, that may help in the decision of which branch I'd rather serve in.

P.S. I thought I already mentioned, I've already been appointed to USNA... This means that if I come to realize that AFA is where I'd truly be better off, I'll be denying a sure thing in the hopes of reapplying next year. That would be a tough thing for me to do.
 
thehoaxbuster said:
I've already been appointed to USNA... This means that if I come to realize that AFA is where I'd truly be better off, I'll be denying a sure thing in the hopes of reapplying next year. That would be a tough thing for me to do.
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That would be a very tough thing for anyone to do. Just my humble opinion but it would take more than just a slight edging out of the USAFA in my preferences before I'd walk away from an USNA appointment. But then I'm in my 50s and no one is offering me appointments to anywhere...except the proctoligist occaisionally.:rolleyes:

Good luck in getting an USAFA nom and appointment, and especially good luck in your decision. :thumb:
 
thehoaxbuster said:
. . . . I've already been appointed to USNA . . . .
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thehoaxbuster,

It really sounds to me that your true destiny is USNA.

First, I have to commend you for not only standing toe-to-toe with Pima, but doing it in such a professional, non-argumentitive way. From my perspective, you are showing a combination of fortitude and courtesy that few possess. Kudos to you on that.

Second, you are learning that your life will be shaped by a whole confluence of factors, some of which are within your control and some of which are not. More important, you are also learning that mistakes resulting from ignorance and assumptions will hurt you. But don't fret, you haven't made a FRACTION of the mistakes that most of us have made in our lives (this is actually called "experience"). In fact, I've even made some BIG ones in the past few months. Just remember, though, that mistakes happen for a reason, mostly to educate us not to make the same mistakes again when people's lives are on the line or when you are faced with a decision that is much more important than simply which SA to attend.

Third, I hope you are in the process of learning that, while you may have made mistakes, don't wring your hands over them or let them cloud your decisionmaking going forward. Instead, educate yourself about your available options going forward (as you are doing extraordinarily well here) and, if other potential options remain, pursue them vigorously until they make themselves available to you or they vanish. If you are able to generate multiple options, then you have a decision to make. If you don't, then the task is much easier because you have NO decision to make.

There is nothing "dishonest" about pursuing multiple paths, such as duplicative MOC and VP nominations. That is the way the system works, and the admissions officers at each of the SAs would be the first to tell you that. In fact, I'd bet even your high-school guidance counselor has advised you and your fellow students to apply to multiple colleges simultaneously and even to apply to "reach" schools in your college search.

In my view, you should pursue AFA vigorously from this point onward. If it doesn't work out, then your decision is easy. And when you show up at USNA on I-Day, don't look at it as if the only reason you're there is because you made some mistakes. Rather, you should be grateful that your mistakes have led you to USNA. At the end of the day, you may surprise yourself with having the options of both USNA and USAFA but deciding to run with USNA anyway after all your hard work to make USAFA an option.

Remember, there are tens of THOUSANDS of young men and women who would give their right arm for what you have right now (an appointment to USNA). I know you recognize this, and it is normal to be indecisive at this point in your life because the decision is a big one (you will become a better decisionmaker as you make more and more decisions over time). But whether your destiny was shaped by you or by things completely out of your control -- either through mistakes you have made or because the athletic director was simply pushing his candidate instead of you -- remember that where you ultimately land is where fate has delivered you.

I think Pima and I share the same desire to help candidates on SAF (as countless others do). That is why, I suspect, she is dishing out the tough medicine to you openly here -- not to offend you, but rather because she knows others will someday be reading this thread and will learn from her posts. I am learning quickly that SAF is a library of "to do's" and "what NOT to do's". And when you graduate from USNA or USAFA someday, you will hopefully be in a position to pay it forward here on SAF.

Good luck to you.
 
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patentesq... that was one of the most meaningful replies I've read yet. I'll be thinking about your advice for a long time. I don't know how I can more accurately express my gratitude than with a B-52 sized THANK YOU :D
 
A couple of clarifications about the VP nomination.

First off, only MOCs are allowed to nominate 10 individuals for each opening. For the VP, the only nomination is the actual nomination, not 10, and definitely not all who apply. Additionally,someone mentioned being eligible for the national waiting list. It is these nine MOC alternate nominations which comprise the NWL. If you don't receive a MOC nomination, you will not be eligible for the NWL.

Secondly, there is no stigma to applying close to or at the deadline. The deadline was changed either this year or last year from October to the end of January. Take advantage of this change. Use it.

Check with your official Academy representative before submitting all the letters of recommendation. This includes USNA but I just talked to my Regional Director a few months ago and he stated that they neither expect nor desire the additional recommendations. The same 'rules' apply as to letters of recommendation in general, only if they are by an individual who can impart significant information which has not been submitted elsewhere in the normal process. Again, even for USNA, rules may change so check with your RD before submitting withut the recommendations.
 
The VP noms seem to generate a lot of interest/confusion. This is from the AFA 2010-2011 catalog:
"Each member of Congress and the vice president may have five cadets at the Air Force Academy at any one time. They may nominate up to 10 candidates for each vacancy. Vacancies occur when cadets graduate or leave prior to graduation." I interpret this to mean there are ten VP noms for each vacancy, and have been told by people involved in the AFA admissions process that the AFA uses these ten, or some portion of them, to nominate highly-recruited candidates who do not otherwise have a nomination with the result that there can be more than five cadets at the AFA at any one time with VP noms or with noms from a single MOC. Just reporting what is stated in the catalog and what we've been told.
 
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