Since I was not a witness, I cannot comment. However, most go through the entire process without the need to contact Admissions at all. The BGOs are normally adequate. All dealings with Admissions to which I have been privy have been very professional and forthright. Do they make mistakes? Of course. However, to classify it as dishonest is a rather serious charge.
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Since I was not a witness, I cannot comment. However, most go through the entire process without the need to contact Admissions at all. The BGOs are normally adequate. All dealings with Admissions to which I have been privy have been very professional and forthright. Do they make mistakes? Of course. However, to classify it as dishonest is a rather serious charge.
Again, I wasn't privy to the conversation so I cannot comment. However, there is a school of though, not without merit, that one attends a SA to serve one's country, however they might best accomplish this while primarily meeting the needs of the Navy. Also, sometimes people do not get their first selection choice. Someone whom they perceive coming across as "If I don't get selected in the USMC, I will shoot my foot off so I don't have to fulfill a commitment doing something else" might come across as an individual who might need some harsh direct conversation.
Hmm, being a retired US Marine Gunner (CWO-4) and having served on active duty for 28 years and sacrificed my body parts in said service I think I am well aware of what the US Military will and will not do!
My daughter has literally grown up in this environment. She has seen me in military hospitals. She knows what it is like to go to bed at night knowing that I was there at home and waking up the next morning and I was gone! She made the moves across country. She made new friends every few years. She remembers what it was like to go weeks with no phone calls or letters….Yes; I think we are very aware of what the Military life is all about.
No we do not need to be coddled! However I do expect an institution such as USNA to have Junior Officers with the integrity and honor to follow through with what they say they will do! When they say they are going to call back, I (and she too) expect a call back. When they say they are going to get an answer….then get the freaking answer! But thank you for your concern![/QUOTE]
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My son's USNA application experience was almost exactly as you describe tpg, the USMA was light years ahead in the courtesy and professionalism department, IMVHO.
We definitely did't need to be coddled either, it was comments/attitudes exactly like that that turned my son off of the USNA. In retrospect, my son seems happier with the way things turned out for him; I guess there really is a reason for everything
BTW, Semper Fi.
usna1985
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As a BGO, I've had my share of frustrations with USNA CGO. Some major frustrations. Overall, however, I think they do a pretty good job with the number of applicants and the number of people in CGO to do the work.
BGOs vary in quality, obviously. When you rely on volunteers -- which they must do for budgetary reasons -- you have less control over the situation. Some BGO slots are hard to fill for geographic reasons, so an average to poor BGO may be considered better than none at all.
If you have a particularly bad experience with a BGO, you should contact your Area Coordinator and let him/her know. Conversely, of course, if you have a great experience, thanking your BGO and/or putting in a good word to the AC is a nice thing to do. We do NOT get paid, do not get any type of tangible award or reward -- only the satisfaction of a job well done and the occasional thank-you.
I will tell you that I've been doing the BGO thing for nearly a decade with an average of 15-20 kids per year and I can count on one hand the number of kids or parents who have ever taken the time to say "thanks."
BGOs vary in quality, obviously. When you rely on volunteers -- which they must do for budgetary reasons -- you have less control over the situation. Some BGO slots are hard to fill for geographic reasons, so an average to poor BGO may be considered better than none at all.
If you have a particularly bad experience with a BGO, you should contact your Area Coordinator and let him/her know. Conversely, of course, if you have a great experience, thanking your BGO and/or putting in a good word to the AC is a nice thing to do. We do NOT get paid, do not get any type of tangible award or reward -- only the satisfaction of a job well done and the occasional thank-you.
I will tell you that I've been doing the BGO thing for nearly a decade with an average of 15-20 kids per year and I can count on one hand the number of kids or parents who have ever taken the time to say "thanks."
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We had two contacts from our son's BGO. One--he sent an email to our son setting up a date and time for the interview. Two--he came to our house and interviewed our son.
That was it. Ne'er another contact before, after, ever.
Having said that, there is another BGO in our area (about 100 miles away!!) who came to son's senior banquet to present his appointment. HE ended up really involved in our mid's journey. Emails me to check up on him, writes him at the Academy. Nice stuff. He's not even our own BGO. Our experience throughout the admissions process (2 years, in this case) was far far short of what USNA1985 describes.
I am heartened to know that there ARE many fine BGO's out there. Ours was just not one of them.
That was it. Ne'er another contact before, after, ever.
Having said that, there is another BGO in our area (about 100 miles away!!) who came to son's senior banquet to present his appointment. HE ended up really involved in our mid's journey. Emails me to check up on him, writes him at the Academy. Nice stuff. He's not even our own BGO. Our experience throughout the admissions process (2 years, in this case) was far far short of what USNA1985 describes.
I am heartened to know that there ARE many fine BGO's out there. Ours was just not one of them.
usna1985
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Quite honestly, the two-contact situation is not that unusual. I usually exchange a few emails with the candidate introducing myself and setting up the interview. I always indicate I'm available if they have questions -- many candidates either have none or don't ask any.
At the interview, I reiterate that I'm available as a resource. However, I'm not a pest. If the candidate is comfortable proceeding through the process w/o the need for help or has no questions, that's perfectly fine with me. And, about 75% of my candidates never again contact me.
I will present their certificates at a school ceremony if requested to do so -- the request typically comes from the school.
I do not call/email candidates to remind them of deadlines, etc. If they aren't motivated enough get their stuff in, they aren't going to succeed at USNA.
I have followed up with one or two candidates over the years but I don't do so with most. I typically have 3-5 successful candidates each year; with each of them in school for four years, it would quickly get out of control. Also, they have their own lives; I was merely someone they passed on the road of life.
I would say that, with most BGOs, the amount of contact you have is largely driven by you. If you need/want a lot, you'll probably get it. But, if you don't want it or don't need it, you won't.
At the interview, I reiterate that I'm available as a resource. However, I'm not a pest. If the candidate is comfortable proceeding through the process w/o the need for help or has no questions, that's perfectly fine with me. And, about 75% of my candidates never again contact me.
I will present their certificates at a school ceremony if requested to do so -- the request typically comes from the school.
I do not call/email candidates to remind them of deadlines, etc. If they aren't motivated enough get their stuff in, they aren't going to succeed at USNA.
I have followed up with one or two candidates over the years but I don't do so with most. I typically have 3-5 successful candidates each year; with each of them in school for four years, it would quickly get out of control. Also, they have their own lives; I was merely someone they passed on the road of life.
I would say that, with most BGOs, the amount of contact you have is largely driven by you. If you need/want a lot, you'll probably get it. But, if you don't want it or don't need it, you won't.
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I think if you're basing your decision on whether or not to attend a school based on your experience with the admissions process that you're acting in a very short-sighted manner. Once you get the appointment, you never deal with them again. I can see how viewing the Regional Officer or BGO as representative of the Academy might taint your idealistic views of the place, because they are indeed representatives, and for many they are the first and only contact with USNA they have prior to I-Day. But you shouldn't let something insignificant and short-termed as that stand in the way of what you claim to be your ultimate goal.
As soon as someone tells me that I "don't want to be a SEAL/EOD/Marine/etc" my first response (maybe not out loud) would be a simple "$@%& you, yes I do" and then keep my distance from the person. In your case it was the RO. It's entirely possible to get an appointment and not deal with him/her. You have more experience with the CoC than I do, TPG, so I'm sure you know about keeping things at the lowest level possible. I dealt almost exclusively with my BGO, who happened to be very good thankfully.
Another issue I notice is the dual enrollment credit. To me this is a non-issue. I spent a year at college before USNA and while using as many credits to validate classes would have been nice, I knew I was going to be in Annapolis for 4 years no matter what. As it turned out, I passed a couple validation tests which freed up some time later on. But even as late as 2/C year, I brought my transcript from UW in and got credit for a 300-level history course. That kind of thing is handled on a case-by-case basis with the academic departments due to varying course syllabi, possibly explaining why your BGO and RO weren't able to get a clear answer. As others have said, they're not miracle workers and they have busy lives of their own...accept that they'll make mistakes. It's an issue that could easily have been resolved even over Plebe Summer when everyone meets with their Plebe academic advisors, or even later in the AC year.
My point is, if this place is really where your son or daughter wants to be, then they'll let nothing so insignificant as not being able to answer a few questions stand in their way. As I said above, once you get here, you never deal with admissions again! The Academy becomes what you make of it!
As soon as someone tells me that I "don't want to be a SEAL/EOD/Marine/etc" my first response (maybe not out loud) would be a simple "$@%& you, yes I do" and then keep my distance from the person. In your case it was the RO. It's entirely possible to get an appointment and not deal with him/her. You have more experience with the CoC than I do, TPG, so I'm sure you know about keeping things at the lowest level possible. I dealt almost exclusively with my BGO, who happened to be very good thankfully.
Another issue I notice is the dual enrollment credit. To me this is a non-issue. I spent a year at college before USNA and while using as many credits to validate classes would have been nice, I knew I was going to be in Annapolis for 4 years no matter what. As it turned out, I passed a couple validation tests which freed up some time later on. But even as late as 2/C year, I brought my transcript from UW in and got credit for a 300-level history course. That kind of thing is handled on a case-by-case basis with the academic departments due to varying course syllabi, possibly explaining why your BGO and RO weren't able to get a clear answer. As others have said, they're not miracle workers and they have busy lives of their own...accept that they'll make mistakes. It's an issue that could easily have been resolved even over Plebe Summer when everyone meets with their Plebe academic advisors, or even later in the AC year.
My point is, if this place is really where your son or daughter wants to be, then they'll let nothing so insignificant as not being able to answer a few questions stand in their way. As I said above, once you get here, you never deal with admissions again! The Academy becomes what you make of it!
Good post DMeix
Our experience was not unlike any of the other experiences my son had with the other schools he applied to and those to which he was accepted. Correspondence was received when the school had something that needed to be stated. We expected nothing more.
He in is where I believe the problem lies - the expectations of needing to feel welcome and swooned all over. Sounds harsh, yes, but that is what I am hearing hear. Questions like, as DMeix pointed out on credit etcetera are not handled by admissions.
You say following through on a phone call - if admissions is dealing with 15000 applicants, and there is nothing to report then maybe a phone call was not warranted. Also, you too are only hearing one side of the conversation. I am not saying that she was not truthful with you, but my experience has always been that 50% of what your child tells you will be the whole story and 50% filtered.
For whatever reason, it seems that the applicants, and their parents, applying to the service academies have a different expectation of the process than applying to State U or LA College. What was your expectation of the Nomination process and then relationship with said nominator after appointment and Induction? My son received a letter of congratulations and that is the last we heard from that office. Never expected otherwise.
Have heard of others who wanted an ongoing relationship while at the Academy.
BGO - son had interview, let BGO know of acceptance of appointment. No different than the many of the other Alumni interviews he had for other colleges. Never expected more. As parents, at the time I thought maybe there should have been more contact but I can tell you my son never thought so. He saw no difference nor expected any difference in the admissions offices or Alumni interviews of all colleges to which he applied.
I am glad for your daughter is has turned out well. It could have gone the other way too.
Our experience was not unlike any of the other experiences my son had with the other schools he applied to and those to which he was accepted. Correspondence was received when the school had something that needed to be stated. We expected nothing more.
He in is where I believe the problem lies - the expectations of needing to feel welcome and swooned all over. Sounds harsh, yes, but that is what I am hearing hear. Questions like, as DMeix pointed out on credit etcetera are not handled by admissions.
You say following through on a phone call - if admissions is dealing with 15000 applicants, and there is nothing to report then maybe a phone call was not warranted. Also, you too are only hearing one side of the conversation. I am not saying that she was not truthful with you, but my experience has always been that 50% of what your child tells you will be the whole story and 50% filtered.
For whatever reason, it seems that the applicants, and their parents, applying to the service academies have a different expectation of the process than applying to State U or LA College. What was your expectation of the Nomination process and then relationship with said nominator after appointment and Induction? My son received a letter of congratulations and that is the last we heard from that office. Never expected otherwise.
Have heard of others who wanted an ongoing relationship while at the Academy.
BGO - son had interview, let BGO know of acceptance of appointment. No different than the many of the other Alumni interviews he had for other colleges. Never expected more. As parents, at the time I thought maybe there should have been more contact but I can tell you my son never thought so. He saw no difference nor expected any difference in the admissions offices or Alumni interviews of all colleges to which he applied.
As my Mid is going through the process of determining his ultimate service selection, we have told him many times to be leery of the of the emotion that one can feel when being recruited. Make sure you really want them too. To change ones mind at the last minute because you have the perception that an organization wants you more than where your heart lies can lead to an unhappy future.
I am glad for your daughter is has turned out well. It could have gone the other way too.
Our experience with USNA Admissions was excellent. Son and I both read extensively on the internet and the Smallwood book so we would be as well versed as possible. His BGO is located over 500 miles from us. He was less responsive than I hoped, but it did not bother son at all. The level of contact was appropriate.
I spoke with BGO about school recognition ceremony and had a great conversation with him. He was to email me his preferred mailing address for the school. We spoke about another BGO who covers a small area but is 120 miles from us doing the presentation. Also the ALO from our area volunteered. I emailed BGO several times and son and I both left messages. Never heard from the man again. The BGO who is closer sent the necessary info the ALO for the presentation. I honestly don't know what happened, however we just moved on. Clearly we need more BGO's out here in west Texas and I am considering doing so in a couple of years.
I do not think applying to USNA can be compared to applying to State U. Some of the schools here in Texas are very attentive to their applilcants. Applicants need to be very attentive to USNA, show that they are doing their research and that USNA is where they really want to go. The kids who apply for USNA are the cream of the crop. However, some of them wish to be fawned over and reminded of this fact daily. Needless to say, those currently at plebe summer are not being fawned over daily, at least not in that fashion!
I am sorry some had a bad experience. Ours was great; admissions helpful when necessary.
I spoke with BGO about school recognition ceremony and had a great conversation with him. He was to email me his preferred mailing address for the school. We spoke about another BGO who covers a small area but is 120 miles from us doing the presentation. Also the ALO from our area volunteered. I emailed BGO several times and son and I both left messages. Never heard from the man again. The BGO who is closer sent the necessary info the ALO for the presentation. I honestly don't know what happened, however we just moved on. Clearly we need more BGO's out here in west Texas and I am considering doing so in a couple of years.
I do not think applying to USNA can be compared to applying to State U. Some of the schools here in Texas are very attentive to their applilcants. Applicants need to be very attentive to USNA, show that they are doing their research and that USNA is where they really want to go. The kids who apply for USNA are the cream of the crop. However, some of them wish to be fawned over and reminded of this fact daily. Needless to say, those currently at plebe summer are not being fawned over daily, at least not in that fashion!
I am sorry some had a bad experience. Ours was great; admissions helpful when necessary.
DMeix, Profmom, very astute and accurate observations.
tpg, from this statement, being a career officer in the Naval service and this being YOUR Academy, I must assume that you personally discussed your daughter's situation with Captain Latta:
A master's degree in five years is a goal that is not compatible with USNA's mission. For those willing to excel, however, it is a possibility.
USNA is the first place where a young Officer is trained that the needs of the Navy prevail. Perhaps a candidate should be more prepared to work with the Academy than vice verse.
tpg, from this statement, being a career officer in the Naval service and this being YOUR Academy, I must assume that you personally discussed your daughter's situation with Captain Latta:
A master's degree in five years is a goal that is not compatible with USNA's mission. For those willing to excel, however, it is a possibility.
USNA is the first place where a young Officer is trained that the needs of the Navy prevail. Perhaps a candidate should be more prepared to work with the Academy than vice verse.
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Memphis9489
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Also, don't forget that the Naval Academy had substantially more applications this year than either USMA and USAFA.
Memphis9489
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I agree. I have twins who were appointed to the Class of 2013 and I think the only time we had to call Admissions was to correct an incorrect email address for one of their teacher references.
I don't even see where the process necessarily involves in depth (or any) contact with Admissions. Fill out the online forms. Collect the recommendations. Write an essay. Fulfill the requirements of all your nominating sources. Interview with a local Blue & Gold Officer, then sit back and wait.
We had a small issue with both my sons wearing braces on their teeth and we needed to establish that the braces would be removed prior to I-Day. But that was all done through the DoDMERB - not Admissions.
Congratulations. Have you realized yet that your plebe summer/plebe year 34 years ago is no longer the hardest? That might not come however until after a few phone calls. The total helplessness of knowing exactly what they are going through and not being able to do one thing about it.
Vocabulary is the same as is the inflection but I doubt '69 would be comfortable being called "Mom" anything. lol
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I actually <3 USNA69; I don't think he would be happy w/ the diversity path the academy has chosen. I read something today about diversity...it said everyone has something diverse about them: blue eyes, brown skin, wavy hair; whatever....diversity is just the package. What matters is character, competence, and achievement.
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