Wait listed

IMHO, it's more likely than not that some favoritism or nepotism is at work when choosing principal nominee. That's human nature. I strongly doubt it happens in the admissions process. Still CPR.
 
I'm not sure how all this works but if someone could enlighten me that would be great. How can so many be wait listed while others are still showing CPR? Wouldn't it make sense to review all before the decision is made on who to wait list?
 
jestay said:
First I would like to say I am pleased my DS received a wait list notification and not a TWE today. My question now is, approximately how many candidates are on the wait list? I do know of someone who was called up from the wait list very close to I-Day. So all hope is not lost!
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When DS was wait-listed last year the notification came in a letter. It explained the terms, how many were on the list, and what he should be doing at that point (which was make a SOLID plan B). As disheartening as it was, he paid a deposit, found a roommate, went to orientation, and registered for classes, all before he recieved the TWE in June. I want to add that, my family knows the pain of the wait-list and the TWE, but God has a perfect plan for all these wonderful, bright kids. Every parent and applicant should be proud of making it this far!
 
My two cents worth:

My kid got in.

His resume is really really good just like a lot of fantastic kids still waiting. But we are about as far from "connected" as you can get. No ranked nominations in our fairly competitive district. Our MOC put together a nominations board and let them pick and then let the academies pick from that. I am not saying that connections don't come into play anywhere but they didn't here and I feel a lot less of that goes on today as in the past.
The punch in the gut is that these kids put so much into the attempt to get in. Mine did hours of extra work after football practice to maximize CFA scores and took the SAT multiple time until he was over 700 on all categories. I know most of the ones left worked just as hard.
I cannot pinpoint what got him in except to say he is very well rounded and frankly I have the utmost respect and empathy for all the well qualified kids still waiting.
But you can't just blame it on unfairness or bias in one area or another. I think it is way more complicated. I talked with several other kids in the waiting room for the nomination interviews and I remember thinking wow these kids are great. My kid is great too but why he got it and others did not, I can only speculate. I talked to my son about it and all he said was he was humbled to get the opportunity.
But to those who really really want this and have worked very very hard I say remember there are several paths to become Naval officers. The Navy and your country needs you. My son needs you to serve beside him. Keep after the goal. Reapply, Go ROTC or OCS...Try every avenue.
 
Joongim2 said:
IMHO, it's more likely than not that some favoritism or nepotism is at work when choosing principal nominee. That's human nature. I strongly doubt it happens in the admissions process. Still CPR.
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Come on now..... Let's be fair. "More likely than not that favoritism or nepotism is at work?" I know a principal who had no political connections nor nepotism at play. He was just a seriously qualified candidate who knocked the interview out of the park. Don't put principals in a negative space. That not only negates their hard work, but also the intellect and dedication of the interview panel.
 
WithYou2018 said:
As a parent of a 3C appointed from the waitlist, congrats! It means USNA wants you; they just need a slot to open as other candidates make their acceptance decisions on or before the April 15th deadline.

The size of the list is set based upon the probable number of offered appointments offwred to date that could in the end to decline the appointment. How many offers that will be made from the list of course depends on this year's experience.

You are all exceptional people to have made it this far. I do hope you get the call, so to speak, but in the end it is only one of many awe inspiring routes to a Navy commission. As my DS informed me after his first summer cruise, it's all about the people he met and his respect they gained. He clearly expressed that being from USNA, NROTC, or OCS had absolutely no bearing on his assessments of his peers or superiors. When he enters the fleet, he said, a title on a diploma will mean nothing.

Best wishes...and I am rooting for you all.
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Thank you for this positive feedback! Yesterday was quite a day. My DS heard of his waitlist status at USNA mid-day and then at 5:00 pm received a call informing him of his 4 year NROTC Marine option scholarship for Boston University. One way or the other, he will attain his goal and in the end, there are multiple paths to get there. So proud of all these kids to still be in the hunt!
 
Letsdothis said:
Come on now..... Let's be fair. "More likely than not that favoritism or nepotism is at work?" I know a principal who had no political connections nor nepotism at play. He was just a seriously qualified candidate who knocked the interview out of the park. Don't put principals in a negative space. That not only negates their hard work, but also the intellect and dedication of the interview panel.
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Agreed. Don't most MOCs submit an unranked list and then let the academies rank? I am not sure about this.

My DD (appointed in December to USNA and USMA) has great stats, just like those of everyone else on this forum. Above 700 on all sections of the SAT, 4.0 unweighted GPA, lots of AP classes, etc. We don't have a lot of money, and we have no political connections whatsoever, though - we live about as far away from the state capital as possible, and she goes to a public school comprised most of low-income students. She is a multi-sport athlete and a musician with a perfect attendance record throughout high school. Tutors and is an eBay seller for cash to pay for her iPhone and gas for when she uses the car we share. She did her entire application and connected with her BGO via Skype by herself; handled her nominations interviews on her own. I provided transportation and postage stamps. What was her "wow" factor? I don't know for sure, but I think one factor might have been that she is a very good speaker - she has been involved in Debate and similar activities since middle school and she comes across as friendly and confident. That makes a big difference in situations like interviews when kids are nervous. It helps her build a rapport with people that she is interviewing.

While she was going through all the hoops, I told her that if it was meant to be, it would happen, and that she had to take everything one step at a time and to do her best in everything that was under her control. She does have a backup plan in case of injury during her spring sport. As a parent, my heart hurts for those who have received the TWE or are anxiously waiting on the waitlist. From what I have seen, even the candidates who have received the TWE are fantastic students with tremendous potential. I hope that each one of your candidates ends up in a great place.
 
MomNewToThis said:
Agreed. Don't most MOCs submit an unranked list and then let the academies rank? I am not sure about this.

My DD (appointed in December to USNA and USMA) has great stats, just like those of everyone else on this forum. Above 700 on all sections of the SAT, 4.0 unweighted GPA, lots of AP classes, etc. We don't have a lot of money, and we have no political connections whatsoever, though - we live about as far away from the state capital as possible, and she goes to a public school comprised most of low-income students. She is a multi-sport athlete and a musician with a perfect attendance record throughout high school. Tutors and is an eBay seller for cash to pay for her iPhone and gas for when she uses the car we share. She did her entire application and connected with her BGO via Skype by herself; handled her nominations interviews on her own. I provided transportation and postage stamps. What was her "wow" factor? I don't know for sure, but I think one factor might have been that she is a very good speaker - she has been involved in Debate and similar activities since middle school and she comes across as friendly and confident. That makes a big difference in situations like interviews when kids are nervous. It helps her build a rapport with people that she is interviewing.

While she was going through all the hoops, I told her that if it was meant to be, it would happen, and that she had to take everything one step at a time and to do her best in everything that was under her control. She does have a backup plan in case of injury during her spring sport. As a parent, my heart hurts for those who have received the TWE or are anxiously waiting on the waitlist. From what I have seen, even the candidates who have received the TWE are fantastic students with tremendous potential. I hope that each one of your candidates ends up in a great place.
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Your daughter sounds amazing. What a future she has!
 
The most popular method of slate is unranked. I don't have a percentage of those, but I know it's the majority. I have sat on a few MOC boards, the board comprised of alumni of all SAs and a few staffers. We took our job very seriously and provided a list that the MOC has followed every year I have been involved. We have zero clue of any connections. Based upon my experiences and involvement over the years connections and nepotism is few and far between regarding Noms.

I was a principal Nom many years ago. I actually didn't know it until after my appointment. My parents and I were registered in the opposite party, had zero political connections and never gave a cent to any politician. Same experience for all my friends who had principals also.
 
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Is it possible some of the candidates are too good for the academies or over qualified?
 
I believe the process is pretty fair overall, and believe that the decision makers do things without insider type politics. I have a problem with my sons USNA admissions counselor, as she never responded to several of my sons emails, and would not find a moment to meet with him when we were in Annapolis, but I don't believe the admissions counselors make the admissions decision regardless.

My son received and accepted an appointment to USMA in January. He applied also to USNA and is still waiting, but frankly has already decided on USMA, which was his first choice from the start. I don't know how he could be such a strong candidate at USMA, and not as much at USNA, but I suspect there are reasons. His Regional Comander at USMA met with us, and said son was one of the very top candidates in his region, and told us that based in his application he was sure my son would get an appointment to USNA, then went on to give a sales pitch for USMA. Perhaps he was blowing smoke up our back end, but it sure didn't seem like it. We also spoke with a counselor at USNA (not my sons counselor), who likewise gave glowing feedback.

Different results at different academies may be as simple as different competition within the congressional district. Who knows. My son has a very strong well rounded application, but didn't walk on water like some here. (His ACT scores were m34, e31, s34, r30, top 15% of class, max or close on CFA scores, NHS Pres, Capt of varsity baseball and soccer, eight varsity letters, All Conf and All Dist First teams in soccer, and worked part time throughout high school). It would have been nice to have been admitted to USNA by this point, but I truly don't think the reason he hasn't been is because of politics. The process has impressed me as being fair, although difficult.
 
My heart too goes out to the DDs and DSs (and their families) dealing with this disappointment. This forum is a great place to get encouragement and advice for moving forward.

Just an observation based on DD's experience. . . . Our state senators got 500+ applicants for SA slots with an overwhelming majority just for USNA. Our family has no political or military connections whatsoever. DD had learned from her BGO and this forum the importance of getting the application completed early, especially in the competitive environment of our state.

DD was strong applicant, had her application in early (including BGO interview), and was LOAed back in August. She was able to include this LOA in her nomination packets for everyone. Based on what DD observed (albeit anecdotally) was that Senators in particular paid close attention to the presence of that LOA, which makes sense since they are trying to cull that 500+ down to 10. At least 3 (probably more, but we know 3 for a fact) of the 10 nominees on senior senator's slate were already LOAed at the time of the interview in early November. Our state spreads the wealth; no one gets more than one nomination. We have seen candidates on this forum similarly qualified to DD receive TWE recently, so it seems to us that DD's LOA prior to MoC interview was key.

I assume that many nominees did not have an LOA, but based on what we've gleaned from the forum, quite a few LOAs were handed out in our state. Perhaps a moderator or BGO could comment on whether this experience is typical in uber-competitive states? We and DD could not help but feel bad for all those candidates applying for nominations thinking there were 10 open slots per MoC, when in reality there were fewer open slots because of the LOAs and the way the MoCs honor those LOAs. Thoughts?
 
We don't know how many LOAs are given. Some guess it's around ~150ish. My guess based on hunch is 150-200. Not all will be 3Q or even accept an appointment. Every MOC Nom process is done differently. I honestly don't care if an applicant has an LOA when they come for their MOC interview. A candidate with an LOA a few weeks ago posted he did not earn a Nom from his MOCs. Hopefully he earns a VP or Supt Nom. Most MOCs will ensure LOAs get a Nom but it's not guaranteed.

Also, one note, for USNA, a principal Nom doesn't not mean an automatic appointment if 3Q. The US code is worded differently for USNA. History on this forum tells us the large majority of principals for USNA do earn appointments, but it's not guaranteed nor automatic.
 
My DS applied for NROTC scholarship in May last year, as soon as it opened, got notified in Sept, got USNA appointment in Dec, turned down NROTC in Feb.
 
I think perhaps timing is important. Ted&Gladys' situation for their DD is similar is some ways to mine. Our Senators received 600 applications and granted 30 interviews. They say they do not double-nominate with each other. My DD had all the paperwork submitted fairly early (about the end of Oct, maybe.) I am not exactly sure when she submitted it. While interviewing the the Senator's board, she could only interview for a nomination to one academy. She went to the interview for a USNA nom while in possession of an LOA from USMA. She got the impression that the panel was very knowledgeable and that they asked tough but fair questions. We honestly had no idea that this would work out. She received an LOA sometime in late November or so. Appointment in Dec. For USMA, her MOC came through. His district is very competitive for USAFA due to location. If my youngest DD decides to apply, I will advise her to start early.
 
Kangaroo said:
My DS applied for NROTC scholarship in May last year, as soon as it opened, got notified in Sept, got USNA appointment in Dec, turned down NROTC in Feb.
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Sorry, I was trying to add on to HurryupandWait's answer to Firefox1 in post #19, but I didn't do it correctly.
 
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