Waiting List

[mom3boys]

What about Superintendent noms? Sometimes a district might have an amazing bunch of candidates...where everyone is awesome (845Something calls them "water walkers"). Suppose someone has a very high WCS, but no nom (and tried for all). They can be considered for a sup nom, I believe. Many athletes get those...esp football players who are recruited after the nom process is over.

 

[RLTW]

probably just less than optimal composition

Agreed, it does look like they meant “appointed” however it could be meant also to say that there are other valid nominating sources which they did not list in that statement, such as Presidential, etc. In any event, the statement could definitely use clarification. Bottom line, a nomination is required (see the US code). The specific source doesn’t matter though per se, with the understanding that if that nominating sources’ allocation of active cadets is full, an appointment cannot be offered based on that nomination, hence the reason to apply for more than one source for nominations, to give USMA to offer an appointment based on an allocatable nomination. My two cents. YMMV. Batteries not included. Go Army.

 

[Sledge]

Don't flame me, but doesn't it Essentially say that Admissions can do "get" anyone they want, regardless of whether that candidate went through the long and cumbersome nomination process or not.?

My question is, how dedicated is a candidate that either wasn't motivated enough to go through the prescribed process like everyone else is required to do, or who didn't make the cut on their MOC interviews?

What about Superintendent noms? Sometimes a district might have an amazing bunch of candidates...where everyone is awesome (845Something calls them "water walkers"). Suppose someone has a very high WCS, but no nom (and tried for all). They can be considered for a sup nom, I believe. Many athletes get those...esp football players who are recruited after the nom process is over.

I think most people that get appointments have gone through the nomination process and received nominations. Maybe there are some who applied to multiple SA's, but because of MOC policy, received only a nomination to one academy.

Once the MOC slots and 150 NWL slots are won based on WCS, I think the appointment "charges" to the Supe and/or Secretary of the Army are used to "round out" the class with the "appropriate/mandated" diversity. So, for example, a diversity candidate, or a recruited athlete, could have had a congressional nomination but their WCS wasn't a winner for MOC slate or Top 150 NWL. That candidate could be charged to the Supe/Secretary if the academy wants/needs that candidate for whatever "goal." It doesn't mean that that candidate was too lazy or unmotivated to go through the nom process.

I know, here where I am, long after the local MOC's deadlines had closed, even after my DS had won an appointment, Army "signed" a local football player. I don't think he was in the MOC nomination process, but Army wanted him for football. So, I'm sure he'll get in via a Supe nom or SecArmy nom.

 

[educ8]

I suspect that these exceptions are predominantly athletes or URMs. I seriously doubt that "water walkers" wouldn't get a nomination from one of their four possible sources (congressman, senator (2), or VP).

 

[Sledge]

I suspect that these exceptions are predominantly athletes or URMs. I seriously doubt that "water walkers" wouldn't get a nomination from one of their four possible sources (congressman, senator (2), or VP).

The VP nom works just like the Supe noms, I think. The Office of the VP lets the individual academy (meaning the Superintendent via admissions) decide to whom they want to give it.

 

[hawk]

What about Superintendent noms? Sometimes a district might have an amazing bunch of candidates...where everyone is awesome (845Something calls them "water walkers"). Suppose someone has a very high WCS, but no nom (and tried for all). They can be considered for a sup nom, I believe. Many athletes get those...esp football players who are recruited after the nom process is over.

Yes, it appears that strong candidates without noms could be pulled from Supe & the "Additional Appointment" noms listed in section e of the code.

But my observation is that the congressional rep can then shift to competitive process and get more in. I saw one year where one senator sent 9 kids to USMA, with only one charged to their allocation. What I know of them they were waterwalkers and most likely technically came from the NWL, but I know some were very early LOA's.

But if you look at the class composition by nom source (2016 was in a recent Board of Visitors report), you can see how USMA uses the "Additional Appointment" bucket.

Over half went to recruited athletes, and almost half were prep. There is also a higher than average mix of URM, though there is probably overlap in all the reported figures. Likewise, approximately 80% of the AA bucket had WCS < 6000, and probably would not have been competitive in the mainstream nom process.

Over half the Supe noms also went to Athletes, but not as many to URM, at least for 2016.

If you read the code, most of it delineates specific sources must not have less than X noms. Clearly intended to force representation across the various states and key groups(Enlisted, ROTC, etc).

But beyond that my read is that USMA largely has flexibility to pick who they want once the NWL and a few other buckets are met, up to the target size. And to be able to nominate them if they did not otherwise have a nom.

As I read the code it occurs to me that it's evolved to be about as fair of a system as we could construct. The only way I see that could make it fairer would be to remove principle noms, forcing them all to be competitive as measured by USMA.

What's not clear to me is if the AA bucket can be used for slots in districts/sources which did not fully use theirs. Unused congressional, Prior enlisted, etc. It appears they can, but I've not followed the code caveats & dependencies in a while.

 

[1984USNA]

I would also suspect that some congressional districts are waaay more competitive than others leaving some highly competitive candidates on the floor of the cut room. Nice to know they might still have a chance.


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[Sledge]

That Board of Visitors report that Hawk mentions above is pretty interesting reading. Some of it is esoteric, but some good stats also. 2012 is the most recent I could find. Look into the appendices for the admission stats Hawk notes above. Here it is

http://www.usma.edu/bov/siteassets/reports/2012%20bov%20annual%20report-final%20complete%20report.pdf

 

[hawk]

I would also suspect that some congressional districts are waaay more competitive than others leaving some highly competitive candidates on the floor of the cut room. Nice to know they might still have a chance.

That's the way I see it. I know in our area Senate and several House Noms are extremely competitive. From memory our Senate coordinator said for c/o 2017 there were over 1500 applicants for their nom alone, and they coordinate with the other senator to not duplicate noms. And like USMA stats, the average candidate stats were stunning. Average SAT was over 1300 Math/Reading, etc.

That Board of Visitors report that Hawk mentions above is pretty interesting reading. Some of it is esoteric, but some good stats also. 2012 is the most recent I could find. Look into the appendices for the admission stats Hawk notes above.

I was a bit reluctant to mention it. The old saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..." comes to mind. IE: It would be very easy to misinterpret the data without context.

But it's well aligned with core admissions stats shared. The only useful addition was it broke them out by Nom source, and thus was relevant to the discussion.

The BoV reports also helps one understand some of the challenges & pressures facing USMA, in many areas. Barracks issues, funding constraints, etc.

As an aside, in the past I've found older reports surface in searches from the Library of Congress. It's public record information.

 

[buff81]

What's not clear to me is if the AA bucket can be used for slots in districts/sources which did not fully use theirs. Unused congressional, Prior enlisted, etc. It appears they can, but I've not followed the code caveats & dependencies in a while.

Unused MOC slots go to the NWL.