Waiver but still no appointment

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by DTX_21, Mar 27, 2017.

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  1. DTX_21

    DTX_21 New Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I have a question regarding my chances at an appointment. Some backstory first: When I began my application to USAFA, I was still playing football as an offensive lineman and was 6'2" and 275. They asked me to get a body fat measurement, which I did, and it came back at 28% (obviously way over standards) and they said that they would have me measure it again later. So, they once again sent me the form (O-220) in early March and I remeasured, having lost about 35 lbs since the end of football in November (currently 240). Then, I received a body fat waiver this last week, which was awesome to get, but has me wondering - what are my chances at appointment still? I have a pretty strong application I think (with exception of my CFA - I was below avg for most events), but I have been losing hope each week as appointments go out but skip over me. Also confusing is the last line of the waiver letter - "You have our best wishes for success as you prepare to join the Class of 2021." What? Can anyone offer advice? Thanks!
     
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  2. NAAF

    NAAF Member

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    The same problem here. My son got the waiver Feb28 without asking to be remeasure.( he was 22%). Also an athlete ( water polo). I did pay attention at last sentence too, but no ward after that. Still waiting but hopes are almost gone. Good luck to you.
     
  3. USAFA2021

    USAFA2021 Member

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    I received my Waiver March 17th. Still no word also. Staying hopeful till the end.
     
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  4. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    A waiver simply ALLOWS you to stay competitive and in the fight for an appointment. Without the waiver, you would be considered "Disqualified" and wouldn't even be considered. So, a waiver keeps you as qualified, eligible, and competitive. But getting a waiver doesn't guarantee anything. The vast majority of applicants didn't require any type of waiver. But having a waiver keeps you in the fight. Best of luck.
     
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  5. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    Guys, getting a waiver just means that you are competitive on your slate or slates. The only person who knows where exactly you sit on your slate and if you have a chance of coming off the NWL is your admission's counselor. If you were #1 on your slate, you probably would have been offered already. If you are #2 and @1 is still waiting to accept, then they would have processed your waiver. If you were #10 on your slate they would not have processed it. Once you are qualified, and the waiver does that, they still have to find a place to "slot" you.

    The only advice any of us can give is to reach out to your counselor and ask the question.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    I would not read anything at all into that sentence. Basically, be it at USAFA or Timbucktoo university they are just saying you are the class of 2021 and wishing you the best for your future.

    In the business world we call that boiler plate.
     
  7. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    So, last week DS did just that, emailed his USNA admissions counselor. He asked her his position on his congressional slate, and she said he's sitting at #4. No further info, such as did #1 accept, are any of the 3 applicants above him waiting on medical waivers, are the other 3 fully qualified, etc. She said she has seen students who are 4th on a slate get appointments. He told her he is very interested in attending NAPS also. She then asked him again to confirm if he was really interested in attending NAPS, to which he replied " yes". So, today, still CPR and we continue to wait...
     
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  8. DDmom

    DDmom Member

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    Received med waiver early march & still waiting. Still listed as candidate on portal but no word on if my DD app has been reviewed.
     
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  9. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    Oh yeah and the admissions counselor did confirm DS'file has been reviewed by the board.
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    VERY MISLEADING. All MOC's provide a list #1 - #10 with their nominees names on them. For the VAST MAJORITY of the MOC's and their slates, the ORDER you are on that list, means absolutely NOTHING, NADA, NICS, ZERO. The vast majority of MOC's simply provide a LIST of 10 names, and ALLOW the Academy to CHOOSE who THEY (The Academy) WANTS to get the appointment off of that list. Doesn't matter if you are #1 or #10 on the list. Some MOC's put their list in alphabetical order. Some in random order. So, your son sitting at #4, means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He is not waiting for #1 - #3 to accept/decline. He is not waiting to see if someone above him is waiting on a waiver to be qualified.

    Also: An Admissions Counselor is there to help with your application. Make sure it's complete. Add data if needed. Help answer some questions. Etc. But the Admissions Counselor has NOTHING, NADA, NICS, ZERO to do with someone getting an appointment or not. They have no say so in the least. Your ALO/MALO/BGO has more of a say so than the Admissions Counselor.

    Caveat: Most here know I have a caveat for many comments. IF, and this is a BIG IF. Your MOC has 3 ways they can SUBMIT their slate to the academy.
    1. One way, is how I previously mentioned. Make a list of 10 names, the order is totally irrelevant, submit it to the academy, and "ALLOWS", yes the word is "ALLOWS" the academy to CHOOSE who gets the appointment. The LAW puts the responsibility of the appointment on the MOC. The MOC has the OPTION of "ALLOWING" the academy to CHOOSE the appointee. This is the norm for MOST MOCs. Why? Maybe they're busy. Maybe they're lazy. Maybe they think the academy know better because they see the ENTIRE PACKAGE much more than the MOC does. Bottom line; the MOC gives 10 names and ALLOWS the academy to choose one.
    2. Second way is for the MOC to present their list of ten names in THEIR RANKED ORDER. They rank the nominees #1 through #10 IN ORDER OF APPOINTMENT. This means, that the academy MUST give an appointment to the #1 nominee (PRINCIPAL NOMINATION) IF S/He is 100% qualified. If they aren't, then the academy goes to #2; and so on. There are some rare exceptions to this. E.g. they offer it to #1, all is good, but 1,2, 3 months later, the #1 who received the appointment changes their mind or becomes ineligible and loses the appointment. The academy MAY or MAY NOT have time to go back to that MOC's list and offer the next in line. They might have to just go into the National Pool and fill the slot, and give the MOC 2 slots for the next year. This also applies to #1 above. If the academy chooses the appointee, and later the appointee changes their mind or loses the appointment due to grades, injury, etc, the academy may not have time to go back to the slate. They might have to go to the national pool and give the MOC 2 spots next year. But for this second way, generally, the academy MUST give the appointment to the #1 on the MOC list and work their way down. This is the way it's suppose to be done, but MOST MOC's don't do this. They prefer option 1 above. This option is in the minority.
    3. The 3rd way, which is the rarest, is a combination of the first 2. The MOC lists their #1 nominee. AKA - PRINCIPAL NOMINATION. This is the individual that the academy MUST give an appointment to if they are 100% qualified. If they aren't, or if the individual turns it down, instead of going to #2 and working down, the academy can CHOOSE ANYONE remaining on the list. This too is subject to time tables. Like previously stated, if the #1 isn't qualified or waits too long and declines, the academy may not have time to go to the remaining 9 on the slate. They may just go to the national pool and select someone and give the MOC a 2nd slot for next year.

    Hope this clarifies a couple things. Mike
     
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  11. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    Wow. I need to reread this post a few more times. Lots of great info. Thank you very much, sir.
     
  12. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    I am sorry if what I said was thought as misleading. At this time of the process, all candidates are ranked by the academy and the academy knows where the sit in terms of their slate and possibility of the NWL and additional appointments. My comment was directly related to the academy's ranking as where they sit on the slate. It has nothing to do with the list from the MOC. We are way past the nomination process.
     
  13. DDmom

    DDmom Member

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    Since many appointments have been given, I wonder how many slots are even left and what the chances of getting an offer for the prep school are?
     
  14. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    I understand that. But my point is, and still is, if the MOC slates have been filled and appointed; as you suggest. And the only appointments left are the from the National Pool; then their spot on their MOC's slate; in your case #4, is totally irrelevant.

    What matters is: are they ranked in the TOP 500-600 of the National Pool; of the few thousand that are on THAT LIST. Unless the academy is still looking at giving an appointment off of your son's MOC's slate; him being #4 on that list means nothing. Nor does it matter what #1-#3 are doing. If the appointment for that slate has been given, then it doesn't matter. His spot is now where he stands against a few thousand on the National Pool waiting for the remaining 500-600 appointments.

    That's what makes this system so difficult to predict. An applicant could be ranked #1 on their MOC's slate, with a 3.8 gpa, 27 ACT, etc. Yet, on the national pool, s/he may not even be in the top 1,000. There is so much difference in schools, students, grades, etc. in the country; that's why about half the appointments are given out equally to congressional districts nationally. The other half are competed against nationally. If not; there are certain congressional districts that would NEVER get anyone an appointment to the academies. Contrary to popular belief, not every student/applicant has the same opportunities as others.

    So, understand..... The position on a MOC's slate ONLY MATTERS if the MOC "RANKS" their slate and the academy MUST choose the #1 nominee on that slate. If the MOC doesn't rank; or the individuals who were on the MOC slate who didn't receive THAT appointment go on to the National Pool; where you ranked on the MOC list means absolutely nothing. You will be RE-RANKED at the national pool against the other 2,000-3,000 who are qualified and also in the National Pool. Nothing about the MOC's slate means anything once you get to the National pool.
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    It's not even April yet. There are PLENTY of appointments left to be given out.

    Remember too. The "PREP SCHOOL" is NOT a second choice or a consolation prize. It's totally different. In MOST CASES..... If you're QUALIFIED to receive an appointment to the academy, but weren't selected; because there were 1,200+ others selected ahead of you; then chances are, you are NOT-QUALIFIED for the prep-school. To be MORE SPECIFIC.... You are OVER-QUALIFIED for the Prep-School. \\

    If there are 1,200 appointees, the Prep-School is NOT FOR #1201-#1450. It's for the individuals that the academy feels; were not qualified because of a particular area of their application. Usually academics. And IF that individual HAD BEEN BETTER in that area; they would have surpassed most other applicants and would be an almost automatic appointee.

    If a person gets a slot to the prep-school, that's great. But it also means that they weren't in the running for an appointment the last 5 months. It's a very touchy situation. Out of 230-250 prep school attendees, about 50-60 will be prior-enlisted who have been out of school for a while. (That's what the Prep-School was initially established for. So they can get BACK INTO academia and be prepared academically for the academy). The remaining 150-200 will be their because they are individuals who had a very good application/resume. They stood out in a lot of areas. But in areas; usually academics and leadership, they were weak in. But they excelled tremendously in many other areas. So hopefully, they can get their academics up enough so the following year, their application will put them so much higher where there isn't any real question about an appointment.
     
  16. DDmom

    DDmom Member

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    When do they start the appointments from the national pool?
     
  17. DDmom

    DDmom Member

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    Thank you for the information you are providing on this thread, very informative. Do you know when the twe will start going out?
     
  18. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    Bluf21 just posted on a different thread his nephew just got TWE email today with corresponding portal turn down.
     
  19. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Yea, the TWE can also be confusing at times. Consider the following.

    1. On your MOC's slate, for all intent and purpose, the academy MUST give an appointment to someone on that list. They have NO CHOICE. (See my post above). Mathematically, you have a 10% chance of getting an appointment on your MOC's slate.
    2. For those who didn't, they go to the National Pool. Of the roughly 5000+ nominees, who didn't receive an appointment on their MOC's slate, or other slate, and are now in the National Pool; only approximately 2500+/- will probably be 100% qualified. (A lot of people are nominated by the MOC, but that doesn't mean they are qualified. The MOC doesn't see the entire application package)
    3. Of the remaining 2,500+/- in the National Pool, they will be RANKED per the academy's WCS (Whole Candidate's Score). They will be ranked basically, from #1 - #2500 (Or however many qualified there are). This ranking will consist of many different criteria; I can't tell you, so don't ask. Anyway, you are in the National Pool and ranked.
    4. Now; considering the academy only needs approximately 600 from this list, if you are on this list, your odds actually INCREASED from the MOC slate. You now have a 25% chance. However...... (The part most don't want to hear). After many years of experience doing this, the academy know about how many in the National Pool will turn it down if given an appointment. Usually because they've waited long enough and accepted another school somewhere else. As such; being the academy only NEEDS about 600 appointments, they will probably only keep an eye on the TOP 1,000 in the National Pool. The remaining 1,500+/- are probably going to get TWE earlier than later

    Getting the TWE earlier than most may seem discouraging and depressing; but it's actually good. (I'm the eternal optimist). You have more time to choose the Plan B school. You also DON'T GET THE FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY of thinking you were REAL CLOSE to getting an appointment. I've seen some who got the TWE in May, so because they "KNEW" they were in the running, they didn't WORK HARD at improving for the next year; and they didn't get an appointment the next year either. Those who got the TWE early; realized they "Had Some Work To Do" if they wanted to apply again for next year. They started immediately; went to CC or State U; retook the ACT/SAT a million more times; and they were READY!!! I saw so many get an appointment the next year.

    So, whether you got the TWE early or you get it in May, if you really want the academy, prepare now for next cycle. If you decide not to reapply; that's cool. Go forth and get ready for your plan B school. Finish your senior year in high school and have a great time. It only comes around once. Don't forget when you get to college, to check out ROTC if the military still interests you. Best of luck.
     
  20. mintyicedtea

    mintyicedtea Member

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    Is this the same criteria used to select Falcoln Scholars? If not, how are they chosen?