WARNING: big pics ahead! …”shake and bake”! BB’s be expensive, YO!

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Yes, this is way out there on the fringe….

No, I don’t live out in some shack in Montana…

Yes, I kinda casually hinted at it in the junk drawer thread….

I bought an el cheapo aluminum bullet casting mold from a company called Lee. I bought their wooden handles which fit their molds. This particular mould has 6 cavities. It is meant for 9mm Luger. So basically picture a big pair of pliers. With each pour or each cast, it drops 6 bullets. This is what is called a tumble lube mold. Lee has their own bullet lube called Alox. It is kind of a mess to apply.

Traditional cast lead bullets have a lube groove in them. You have to run them through a lube sizer or a “lubri-sizer” it squeezes a waxy type lube into the grooves. It also squishes the bullet to a uniform diameter.

That waxy lube is supposed to keep the barrel from leading up, as the bullet gets spun up by the rifling.

The downside to those waxy lubes is that upon firing, it leaves a la lot smoke in the air. And it is still kinda messy.

So about 15 years ago, somebody figured out you could powder coat cast lead bullets. At first, they were sprayed with an electrostatic gun. You hooked a wire (a ground clamp) to the tray the bullets were sitting on. This imparted a charge to the bullets, so the powder was like gently sprayed over the bullets, ghis magnetic like attraction got the powder to adhere to the bullets.

Then somebody thought of the next evolution. By putting the bullets in a plastic container, sprinkling in a teaspoon of powder coat powder, closing the lid, snd swirling the bullets, the powder would stick to the bullets. The plastic container generates a static electricity charge.

This became known as the “shake snd bake” method

So I tried it out for the first time last night, swirling them around in an old Cool Whip container:

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I made up my own wire mesh basket:

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Then I stuck the basket in a toaster oven at 400°F for 15 minutes.

While they are still hot, I flip the basket over to dump all the bullets into a 5 gallon bucket of water.

After a few minutes, I spread them out on a towel to dry:

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As you can tell, I am quite excited about the process and the results.

They still have to be run through a sizer.

And then loaded up into ammo.

Then shot on paper for groups and function.

How tough is this powder coat? You might be asking. Some people try smashing their powder coated bullets with a hammer, but here is a pic of a bullet shot against a steel plate:

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The advantage to powder coating bullets are:
T in
1. It is fast
2. Not smokey like traditional cast and lubed bullets
3. It is cheaper than copper jacketed bullets
4. You can use different colors to denote different loads, say one color for sub-sonics, and another color for supersonics.
5. They don’t lead the barrel.

The last Hornady jacketed bullets I bought were 16 cents each.

When I was really into shooting competitions 18 years ago, I shot 8,000 rounds one year just at matches. That would be almost $1,300 just in projectiles, today.
 
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I mounted my 32 year old Rock Chucker press to one of my reloading benches last night. And then threaded in the Lee bullet die for 0.356”

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In the background to the left, you can see the red plastic cap that would normally enclose all that and catch all the bullets as they come out of the top of the die

That bullet sizing operation seemed easy enough to do. Just kinda mind numbing and slow.

Then I made 5 dummy rounds…dead primer and no powder:

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That silver or stainless doodad on the right is called a “case gauge”. It is like a facsimile of a 9mm Luger chamber. If your reloaded or handloaded rounds fit into, and the headstamp sits flush or slightly below flush, that round should fit in your gun. And run. It is a QA/QC step. Like those flat rate boxes from the U.S. Postal Service: “If it fits, it ships!” Send it!

Then I hand cycled those 5 dummy rounds through a couple of CZ-75’s. They are known for having short chambers or very little “free bore” (or “leade”) so bullets that are not seated deep enough or have a different “ogive” shape can be jammed into the rifling. If the round is really long, the slide won’t go into battery. So the gun won’t fire. And the usual protocol of “tap, rack, bang” can cause the case to be extracted and ejected out of the chamber, spilling gun powder everywhere, and leaving the bullet still jammed into the rifling. The only way to fix it is to beat the stuck bullet out by inserting a squib rod in from the muzzle end. Preferably after you have field stripped the gun, and have the barrel out by itself.

By this time, your match is basically over, You were on the clock for that one stage. And now that one stage’s score has totally tanked your standings in the overall match results.
 
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@ZoomieFrom1994

Is there any “Lead Vapor” … Dust … and/or “Plasma” … anywhere in your process that you would be breathing it …

If so … Please wear the proper filtration masks …

I don’t want you getting Lead poisoning …
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@ZoomieFrom1994

Is there any “Lead Vapor” … Dust … and/or “Plasma” … anywhere in your process that you would be breathing it …

If so … Please wear the proper filtration masks …

I don’t want you getting Lead poisoning …
.
Thank you!

I used to shoot an every Tuesday night IDPA-style match at an indoor range all through 2006 and at least half of 2007.

This indoor range had really bad ventilation.

We might as well have been shooting in somebody’s basement.

I had my lead levels tested back then. They were nothing to be worried about.

The two or three employees that worked there…not so much.

The owner of the gunstore / indoor range was such a tightwad …errr…so frugal…that he was having the employees sweep up the ejected brass shell casings with a push broom and a dust pan, no dust masks on. No disposable latex or nitrile gloves. Then taking the brass to a back room and separating them out by caliber. Then they were selling the brass on Gun Broker.

At least two of those employees had lead levels so high that they had to go through that chelation therapy.

I just did a quick google search. It says that at 900°F is when the molten lead starts releasing fumes.

My particular lead pot gets to maybe 700 to 750.

As a side note….

Oh…also about 2005 or 2006, my girlfriend at the time got a Jack Russel Terrier puppy.

The dog started getting lethargic. I can’t remember if it exhibited any other symptoms. This was winter time. So she took it to the vet. It came back with high lead levels in its blood.

I started thinking, “What has chsnged? What condition is different?” I went to a Home Depot and bought one of those lead paint testing kits. IIRC, there was like a swab that resembled rolled up gauze.

I took that swab and rubbed it on the “pine needles” of my girlfriend’s artificial Christmas tree. The swab turned yellow indicating that lead was present.

Jack Russel Terriers are known for being bouncy, energetic dogs, so what he was doing was standing or jumping up while weren’t looking, and biting off a mouthful of fake pine needles. That’s how he was ingesting the lead.

The tree was promptly thrown in the trash (once I replicated the swab test right in front of my girlfriend).

The dog made a full recovery.

Back on topic…

I have the disposable income to buy an automated bullet casting machine:

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But I don’t have a good place to put it or store it, like a pole barn.

Just plug it in, turn on the heating element. Once the lead is melted, flip another switch or two and the mould blocks start rotating through as the little squirrel cage blower on the side cools the mould and lead. As things rotate around, the mould gets opened. IIRC, there is a “knocker” which taps on the mould to get the bullets to drop into those ammo cans. The rotation continues, so the moulds get closed. And right at top dead center, a magnetic solenoid causes the “valve” to open and pour molten lead into the mold. And so on and so on for all four molds.

No need to be really exposed to anything then.
 
How clean was the barrel afterwards? 50 rounds is not much, so not a great metric for how well the homemade powedercoated bullets perform for more I know. Just curious.

This was a really interesting process to follow. Thanks for sharing. I love reading and learning new ways to do something yourself. Especially when it saves $$$. The powder coating trick could work for other small metal pieces maybe.
 
I haven’t tried cleaning the barrels yet, but I did make it a point to take pics of the bores:

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Then I wanted to see if the blue powder coat got deposited on the baffles inside the compensator;

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Nope!

I’ll go through a few Hoppe’s #9 soaked Q-tips for the bores. I’ll see if they turn blue.
 
Just wondering... lead fouling. Yes it is a problem. If you are just plinking with the CZ, why not just get an extra barrel for when you are plinking, and go through the old ways of removing the course (bulk) part of the lead fouling, i.e., bronze swabs, etc. ? like I said just wondering. The powder coating trick you stumbled across is pretty cool. PS I dont even know why I am asking all of this since the one gun I had handed down to me a long time ago got lost at the bottom of a lake a long time ago in a canoeing incident.
 
... PS I dont even know why I am asking all of this since the one gun I had handed down to me a long time ago got lost at the bottom of a lake a long time ago in a canoeing incident.

[Maxwell Smart] "The old losing it in the Drink trick" ...

I lost the best Bait Casting Reel I every owned in the Tidal Potomac in the 1990's .... It was a Daiwa "TD2" baitcaster ...
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Just wondering... lead fouling. Yes it is a problem. If you are just plinking with the CZ, why not just get an extra barrel for when you are plinking, and go through the old ways of removing the course (bulk) part of the lead fouling, i.e., bronze swabs, etc. ? like I said just wondering. The powder coating trick you stumbled across is pretty cool. PS I dont even know why I am asking all of this since the one gun I had handed down to me a long time ago got lost at the bottom of a lake a long time ago in a canoeing incident.
Did I mention this already?

When I was shooting matches regularly, Both IDPA and USPSA) , every now and then, there would be a “blue barrel stage”.

They would cut off the top and bottom of a blue plastic drum. Then set the drum up horizontally, at about 3 feet above the ground. Then you would be forced to shoot through it , basically putting the gun and your hand/forearms inside the barrel. If you were shooting traditional cast lead bullets with a waxy lube, they would smoke so bad you couldn’t see the targets on the other side of the drum.

Most matches start at 8AM or 9AM. The sun can sometimes be coming up over the berm just right and with no wind blowing that early in the morning, the smoke will also just hang there if you are shooting a regular cast bullet. And you have a hard time seeing the targets.

Scrubbing lead out of a gun’s barrel sucks.

Depending on the caliber, velocity, pressures, and heat involved, size of the bullet, and the hardness of the lead bullet, sometimes there has to be this almost alchemy like process with the waxy lube in the groove to keep the bore from leading up.

Powder coating avoids all that voodoo about bullet hardness.

Not to be pedantic here, but you are going to learn a new word today: obturate .

Think of taking a marshmallow between your thumb and index finger and squeezing it.

See how the marshmallow gets shorter end to end?

But it gets fatter in the middle?

That is what some lead bullets do. The lead is soft enough that the inertia of being launched down a barrel causes them to get fatter in the middle, to obturate, and in that process it seals the bore better.

Conversely, there is a theory that bullet lead can be so hard that the bullet doesn’t obturate good enough. So these 30,000 psi hot gases go squeaking by between the bullet and the bore and causes lead to be deposited onto the bore. That is called “gas cutting”.

With powder coating encapsulating the bullet, you don’t get that.

If you have to scrub the lead out of a barrel, a cutoff pinch of a copper Chore Boy scrubber wrapped around a bronze bore brush will work. Plus elbow grease.
 
I had some .40 cal bullets that I had casted 15 years ago.

I had never sized them.

So I ran them through the Lee push through die .401”.

Then I tried powder coating them with zombie green.

I knew I was going to be in trouble as soon as I took the lid off the Cool Whip container:

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But I baked them anyway:

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That’s way too thin.

My guess is it was really rainy / humid that day. That interfered with the static electricity.

I had gone to the Grand earlier in the day and it had rained / misted off and on:

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But then a half hour later it would look like this:

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I did get some shotgun browsing in:

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I did stop by the Wenig booth. They make stocks and forearms:

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It was my first time ever seeing a stock with spalted wood (maple???). Those black lines are caused by a fungi that grows on the endgrain of a log that has been sitting out in the woods for a while…well… basically rotting. You have to catch the wood at just the right moment. Otherwise it gets “punky” and just crumbles in your hand.

Wenig does have a couple of work benches in the front, but what is weird though when you walk in is your nose is immediately assaulted by the smell of Bondo. Yeah, the same stuff you use to patch holes in your old rust bucket of a car. Except for Wenig, minus the fiberglass fabric. I guess what they do is dollop on the Bondo to the buttstock. Shape it just so, then the gun’s owner tries shooting with it after the Bondo has dried. The Wenig guys can sand or rasp the Bondo down til the gun owner says, “Yeah, that fits.” Maybe then they use that as like a template for a stock blank??? Out of new piece of wood???

Anywhooo…I am going to wait for a non-rainy day to try recoating those projectiles and/or run the dehumidifier for a few hours before.
 
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I had some .40 cal bullets that I had casted 15 years ago.

I had never sized them.

So I ran them through the Lee push through die .401”.

Then I tried powder coating them with zombie green.

I knew I was going to be in trouble as soon as I took the lid off the Cool Whip container:

View attachment 22013

But I baked them anyway:

View attachment 22014

That’s way too thin.

My guess is it was really rainy / humid that day. That interfered with the static electricity.

I had gone to the Grand earlier in the day and it had rained / misted off and on:

View attachment 22015

But then a half hour later it would look like this:

View attachment 22016

I did get some shotgun browsing in:

View attachment 22017

View attachment 22018

I did stop by the Wenig booth. They make stocks and forearms:

View attachment 22019

It was my first time ever seeing a stock with spalted wood (maple???). Those black lines are caused by a fungi that grows on the endgrain of a log that has been sitting out in the woods for a while…well… basically rotting. You have to catch the wood at just the right moment. Otherwise it gets “punky” and just crumbles in your hand.

Wenig does have a couple of work benches in the front, but what is weird though when you walk in is your nose is immediately assaulted by the smell of Bondo. Yeah, the same stuff you use to patch holes in your old rust bucket of a car. Except for Wenig, minus the fiberglass fabric. I guess what they do is dollop on the Bondo to the buttstock. Shape it just so, then the gun’s owner tries shooting with it after the Bondo has dried. The Wenig guys can sand or rasp the Bondo down til the gun owner says, “Yeah, that fits.” Maybe then they use that as like a template for a stock blank??? Out of new piece of wood???

Anywhooo…I am going to wait for a non-rainy day to try recoating those projectiles and/or run the dehumidifier for a few hours before.
That spalted maple is gorgeous! If it was stabilized, then the strength would be increased with no worry if it was too punky. I've got a logs worth of wood like this but it is red oak. I've never seen spalted wood used as stocks for a gun. Really cool idea.
 
I have taken small wooden blanks and put them in a mason jar of this stuff:

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I’m sure Wenig is big enough where they have pressure pots:

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Where they can put in a butt stock with the same kinda chemical, hook up a hose to the pressure pot, and pull a vacuum. Then that chemical gets dispersed through all the wood’s pores.
 
I do like powder coating. I've also used Hi-Tek and am happy with the results, but it is definitely a more complicated process than PC.
 
I have taken small wooden blanks and put them in a mason jar of this stuff:

View attachment 22023

I’m sure Wenig is big enough where they have pressure pots:

View attachment 22024

Where they can put in a butt stock with the same kinda chemical, hook up a hose to the pressure pot, and pull a vacuum. Then that chemical gets dispersed through all the wood’s pores.
Cactus Juice or another type of heat cured resin works alittle better because it solidifies completely even deep into the wood with the addition of heat. The minwax wood hardener can sometimes not harden deep into the wood. Not always, but it is possible.

I've stabilized a bunch of wood for knife making and other projects. Pretty neat process. Strengthens the wood, prevents warping, and eliminates the wood from shrinking or absorbing water.
 
I do like powder coating. I've also used Hi-Tek and am happy with the results, but it is definitely a more complicated process than PC.
There used to be a company called “Black Bullets International” that took their cast bullets, and coated it in a “moly” coating. Then when it dried, the bullet was totally encapsulated. The main picture on their website showed a little hole was made in the “moly” coating. Then heat or a torch was applied, and molten lead was shown pouring out of the hole while the “moly” coating retained its bullet shape.

Somewhere, I learned that they used a liquid called Sandstrom 27A. So I ordered a quart. It is meant for industrial applications. Once all the solvents evaporate, it leaves behind a “dry film lubricant”.

I never could figure out a way to apply that liquid in bulk. Other people who had seen such bullet casting operations told me it was a lot like how the color or flavoring is added to jelly beans, but with heat applied.

Fast forward to the 3 minute and 10 second mark here:


About the closest thing I could think of would be a concrete mixer (made from metal/steel). But I couldn’t figure out how to apply heat, safely, to a spinning drum. The solvents used in the Sandstrom 27A liquid seemed rather “hot”. It all looked like a disaster waiting to happen. As a child of the 70’s and 80’s, I remember those news stories about people having a natural gas fired water heater in or near their attached garages. They would work on their cars or use gasoline to wash parts. The gas fumes would travel across the floor until it found the pilot light on the water heater. Then WWWWOOOFF! So I gave up on that idea.

At least with powder coating, the “ingredients” seem inert.

My Dix sizer arrived yesterday. I took a peek into the box earlier today:

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From the user’s manual:

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Cactus Juice or another type of heat cured resin works alittle better because it solidifies completely even deep into the wood with the addition of heat. The minwax wood hardener can sometimes not harden deep into the wood. Not always, but it is possible.

I've stabilized a bunch of wood for knife making and other projects. Pretty neat process. Strengthens the wood, prevents warping, and eliminates the wood from shrinking or absorbing water.

Ahhhh….yes, cactus juice. I totally forgot about that stuff. I have never used it. At least not yet.


Have you worked with the carbon fiber and copper layered “micarta” handle blanks?

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Although I have heard working with carbon fiber has its own respiratory risks.

There is a woodworking guy who has put out a bunch of videos of himself making table tops out of layers of denim and aluminum foil epoxied together.

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I would be curious how that would look as a knife handle blank.
 
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