What are DD's chances NOW? (after report card "F")

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Kukailimoku

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Well, my kid done went and did it - she got an "F" in a class.

GPA weighted remains above the mid 3s inspite of this "F".

Is she sunk?
Does she continue to try (apply) or is it folly? (Be honest, I have thick skin.)

Without going into the "story" (rationalizing) of HOW this happened, the pertinents are:

F was in a math class.
F was a semester grade (2nd semester, end of year), and not merely a quarter F.
DD just finished Junior year, will be senior when school begins again this fall. (We're worried that initial grades submissions timing will contain the "F" but not any following quarters' redeeming grades.)

Nominally one would simply continue to try on the off chance that one gets in in spite of the grade, but I'm asking the question for the following reasons. The kid is already very busy and very stressed just being the (erstwhile) "good student" - and overall great person - she already is. The application process is a bear, as we all know. Staying on top of the application process (doing it right) can be consuming in itself and is another burdensome activity on top of her list of activities, in addition to her 1-hour 20-minute commute each way to/from school every day.

I realize there is an aspect of life that argues for fighting for what one wants. Ignoring for the moment the philosophy of "never quit", "go down fighting," the 20th Maine's bayonet charge, and all that (I personally know all about the value of stick-to-it-iveness, I was a Ranger school re-cycle -- twice -- and saw it through to graduation) -- we're talking herein about pragmatic, practical considerations in-real-life.

Besides welcoming everyone's well-intended prognosis of my DD, I am especially looking for first hand accounts of an "F" actually getting into an academy and accounts of "F"s being the known disqualifier. Talking about both the MOC nom and admissions proper.

Thanks all.
 
Can she make it up in the summer to get her grade replaced? My school offers this sort of program. I just remember the admissions counselor tell me at CVW that the curriculum at the academy involves a lot of math, so if they see on your transcript you don't do well in math, not good. But I wouldn't give up, because if she is a great candidate otherwise she could be offered NAPS
 
My son just Failed his 2nd semester if AP US history. He will be taking it at our local college in Fall.
His counselor stated that the GPA does NOT change when they retake the course, they just earn the credits they need to graduate. And funny enough, his F still gives him a point because it's an AP class. In DS case 5 credits are needed.
Don't be too hard on her, Junior year is one of their most difficult. I'm sure she will bounce back on her retake.
 
What is your school's policy? Does it show class taken again, or does it simply replace the grade? Get that kid in summer school STAT! If your school doesn't have it, find a place that does. HOWEVER...a semester F in math of all things does not bode well for a future at a service academy where every degree is heavy on the math/science courses.
 
Taking summer school doesn't replace a previous grade. Just gives them a new one so they get their needed credits. So ANY transcript will show regular school year and also summer school session.
 
I can't advise about the F, I'm just kind of sad for a high school junior who is overly busy, very stressed, has an hour and 20 minute commute to school twice a day, and that applying to West Point is "another burdensome activity on top of her list of activities". :frown:
 
I had a D in my math class junior year 1st semester and the 2nd semester I got an A. I still got an LOA and appointment. I don't know if that helps you but it's not an end all be all. It depends on what else she has to offer as well,her other grades etc. Spin it to her advantage and when asked about a difficult situation she can use that as an example with like MOC interviews or essays if it's asked
 
catlover2 said:
I had a D in my math class junior year 1st semester and the 2nd semester I got an A. I still got an LOA and appointment. I don't know if that helps you but it's not an end all be all. It depends on what else she has to offer as well,her other grades etc. Spin it to her advantage and when asked about a difficult situation she can use that as an example with like MOC interviews or essays if it's asked
Click to expand...

Catlover - Even with the D, were you still in the top 20%? Did you have excellent test scores? Maxed the CFA? What kind of extracurricular background (ie. girls state, student body president, varsity captain, etc)?

Thanks.
 
Ted75 said:
Catlover - Even with the D, were you still in the top 20%? Did you have excellent test scores? Maxed the CFA? What kind of extracurricular background (ie. girls state, student body president, varsity captain, etc)?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes I was still in the top 10 percent actually with a 4.2 (I go to a smaller 5a school with about 1200 kids, that semester I was 32 out of 353) I had A's and B's in all my other classes which were APs and honors so it balanced out well. I didn't max the CFA but I had solid scores. I had a really strong sports record three sport athlete captain and 4yr varsity for two of those sports and a state finalist three times and academic and sports awards (MVP, rotary, Honorable mention, etc.) I did do girls state which was amazing btw and three clubs, NHS, worked a job throughout all four years, and some community service stuff on the side as well. I don't think that I am necessarily stellar or the best of the best I think I just showed strong consistency and dedication in my application.
 
She would show as a "at risk" when they evaluate her admissions file. She needs to retake the case and get an A, completing it before she submits her transcript. Probably best that she retakes it over the summer.

What class was it? What are her Math SAT and ACTs?

Is she sure she wants to do this? The math program at West Point is extremely difficult. On top of that is the life of being a Cadet.
 
The short answer, none of us can tell you for sure. A few people have anecdotes, but those may or, more likely, may not be representative of the experience of many. Couple of things I haven't seen anyone else mention yet.

1. If she hasn't talked to her RC yet, she should. How DD responds to this setback is going to depend on the admissions rep's advice. Only that person has information about USMA's recommendations, concerns, policies (written or unwritten) etc. The RC will have a much better feel about the competitiveness of candidates in your district as compared to your DD. That much more targeted information should help DD decide how to proceed.

2. You didn't describe the circumstances of the F (and that is FINE - it's private) but I urge DD to honestly evaluate the reasons for the grade, from a standpoint of personal responsibility. Not blame - responsibility. From this college instructor's experience, an F is not a fluke. It's a systematic failure in some habit -- studying, reading, doing homework to learn (not just to finish), not taking responsibility for one's learning -- or some systematic issue with learning -- not just learning disabilities, but challenges integrating and processing information. (Again, I emphasize I'm thinking about responsibility, not blame.) If it's the latter, an intensive course and/or a tutor (a good one) can help. If it's one or more habits, she has to be brutally honest and recognize that, then make a plan to correct it.

Good luck to her!
 
Generally speaking, most folks here go by personal experience and are not officials or representatives of the academies. I would still encourage your DD to submit and complete her application. Let admissions decide who gets the green light or not. If your DD doesn't apply she will not get accepted, this I do know.

Historically, Calc, Physics, Chem are the Plebe killers during their first year across the board at all academies. The trend indicates two things, academies do turn up the heat on these subjects and many first year cadets are not prepared for college level academics.

Push Hard, Press Forward
 
catlover2 said:
Yes I was still in the top 10 percent actually with a 4.2 (I go to a smaller 5a school with about 1200 kids, that semester I was 32 out of 353) I had A's and B's in all my other classes which were APs and honors so it balanced out well. I didn't max the CFA but I had solid scores. I had a really strong sports record three sport athlete captain and 4yr varsity for two of those sports and a state finalist three times and academic and sports awards (MVP, rotary, Honorable mention, etc.) I did do girls state which was amazing btw and three clubs, NHS, worked a job throughout all four years, and some community service stuff on the side as well. I don't think that I am necessarily stellar or the best of the best I think I just showed strong consistency and dedication in my application.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing, Catlover. Best wishes and hang tough!
 
Thanks all.
Sage advice, indeed.
We do appreciate your time and advice, across the spectrum, from all of you.

DD had decided, just prior to my posting, to no longer strive toward an academy admission. Mom and I were wanting to bounce off of this forum to help guide US in guiding her. Because of the gravity of a decision to opt out of a once in a lifetime opportunity to change ones life trajectory, mom & I normally would take a position counter to her ceasing the admission process, but in light of a whole lot of background info you all didn't know about, as well as your kind thoughtful advice, we decide to let her be with her choice to forego academies and take a different path.

She was never great at math and the academies were never a long-time passion nor "calling" for her. She did take to the academies USMA in particular organically and spontaneously (without parents pushing her) after meeting prior grads from her private high school who are currently in USCGA and USAFA. So I would say her interest was in fact genuine; it wasn't extremely deep though and definitely not a pull of destiny. I only say that last part to illustrate how it could be (relatively) "easy" for us to let that bird go. It's never a decision to be taken lightly, but if she wasn't 4,000% desirous to go through the whole endeavor (plus the five more years of active federal service), then getting derailed from a speed bump like this is a little easier to stomach.
She did have some great things to offer - Girls State, Editor-in-Chief of her school paper, superb grades except for math - but she did come late to the idea of the academies and also has many holes in her whole-person candidacy.

Thanks again all, and take heart in our throwing in the towel:
One less kid competing for a slot in the class of '21!

Good luck to you all.

P.S. I'm happy to read further advice/opinion, and future users can use this thread for their own edification, but for the most part I think I'm done here, and Moderator: you can close/file/archive this thread whatever your policies are.

Kukailimoku, out! <mic drop>
 
She will find her success down her own path. Spread the word about SAF!

Push Hard, Press Forward
 
I would only add that she is young, and that her interests and passions may change again, even soon, and the service accademys may again be the desire, perhaps even with a greater vigor. Thus, encourage her to work on that math grade, and understand that those things that make a candidate strong in the eyes of the academies also will make her a strong applicant elsewhere. Preserve the SA option I guess it what I am suggesting. It certainly won't hurt.
 
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