What can I do to become a Pilot?

Cannonball,

You absolutely should have goals and dreams and should do all you can to make them a reality.

That said, those of us on the other side of college/choosing a career know that the process is a bit more winding, difficult and outside of one's control than we thought when we were 16 or 17. Thus, no one is tryng to discourage you . . . merely provide a dose of reality.

The military is one path toward becoming a commercial pilot but may not be the best way, especially going forward. And, if you choose that path, you need to be prepared to become something other than a pilot because that happens to a LOT of people in the military who had the same dreams you do.

Folks who are commercial airline pilots are also saying that being a commercial airline pilot may not be as exciting, interesting or financially rewarding as you believe. I take their word for it b/c they live it every day.

Part of asking questions is taking in the answers. People on this site tend to be honest. That's what's happening here. We understand the answers may be disheartening, but they are intended to paint a realistic picture. Everyone could tell you what you want to hear, but if it's not factual and accurate, would it really be helpful to you?
 
Cannonball said:
As far as posting on here and asking questions - I thought that is what this forum was for!?! Are you saying I shouldn't be posting about things that I want to know?
Click to expand...

You are free to ask many questions as you want, but most cases you will get more than answer to the question you asked.

Some of us that spent too much on time on this forum and have some life experience, so we tend to look at the whole picture. Your question was about becoming a commercial pilot. For some of us, a question like that makes us wonder what you are really asking. The thread belongs to the General Discussion, Off Topic, BUT it still falls under the Service Academy, hence some of us think about the military application. If this forum was about flying and not service academy and related topics, you would not have gotten some of the responses.

Regardless, just like you are free to ask questions, we are free to answer your questions.
 
If I would have asked about the academy or rotc then I would expect an answer about them. I simply asked if being a fighter pilot was a disadvantage when applying as an airline pilot. Bullet answered the question directly and to the point. Thank you bullet. Pima just goes overboard in her answers and assumes a lot. Also thank to the people who contacted me privately. Apparently the SAF mafia has driven discussions underground on here.
 
Cannonball said:
If I would have asked about the academy or rotc then I would expect an answer about them. I simply asked if being a fighter pilot was a disadvantage when applying as an airline pilot. Bullet answered the question directly and to the point. Thank you bullet. Pima just goes overboard in her answers and assumes a lot. Also thank to the people who contacted me privately. Apparently the SAF mafia has driven discussions underground on here.
Click to expand...

I was going to offer you some cheese with that whine... but I realized you're too young for wine.

Good luck with the pilot goal.
 
Cannonball said:
If I would have asked about the academy or rotc then I would expect an answer about them. I simply asked if being a fighter pilot was a disadvantage when applying as an airline pilot. Bullet answered the question directly and to the point. Thank you bullet. Pima just goes overboard in her answers and assumes a lot. Also thank to the people who contacted me privately. Apparently the SAF mafia has driven discussions underground on here.
Click to expand...

I disagree, this is an open forum, so once your post a question, you don't know what you are going to get. You can't fault the forum for providing responses you don't like.
 
1) If you're going to become so defensive in an online forum where your identity is hidden and there's 0 repercussions for your questions/actions/opinions, then grow some thicker skin.

2) The "SAF mafia" doesn't drive anyone underground and differing opinions are going to be argued. How droll it would be if no one was allowed to disagree or actually show some emotion or passion in their responses. Aseanag doesn't like that people vehemently disagreed on things like the prep school and a dang flyover. And then holds a grudge on it.

3) Bullet and Pima are spouses and provide excellent viewpoints from both sides of the AF life. Be careful, most often Bullet is in agreement with Pima and sometimes he doesn't go into the rest of the nitty gritty because his wife does a good job of explaining it instead. ;) They work well as a team.

4) Like Member said, you asked this in SERVICE ACADEMY FORUMS. Of course you'll get an answer in that context. You're a 16 y/o asking about if being a fighter pilot will help becoming a commercial pilot. Yes/No answer to that doesn't have a whole lot of value without the context. If I was asking that, the answer might be shorter - I'm a month from UPT and short of busting out, I will come to the T-1/T-38 track select. I've already made it through being accepted into a commissioning program, doing well enough to earn a pilot slot, and then doing well enough to graduate. Even then, the perspective on commercial airline life and the process of going fighter to civilian to airline is still valuable.

So, it's great you are looking at the options and wanting to know what they mean in the future. But don't get upset when you get the reality check of all the things it takes to GET to a pilot and all the things to EXPERIENCE as that pilot. And while YOU may not care, maybe someone else appreciates the advice. This forum probably has 2-3 times the value of JUST the questions asked because of all the additional perspective others have freely given.

Here's a life lesson. Be prepared to hear the answers if you decide to ask a ton of people. And humble yourself some - it's reflects poorly on you to so arrogantly dismiss and whine at those who have walked the walk. If I saw some teenage in real life go up to a pilot, their spouse, or another military member/veteran and talk like you have in this forum, that teenager would get a real earful from a lot of people. So be thankful for anonymity online.
 
hornetguy said:
1) If you're going to become so defensive in an online forum where your identity is hidden and there's 0 repercussions for your questions/actions/opinions, then grow some thicker skin.

2) The "SAF mafia" doesn't drive anyone underground and differing opinions are going to be argued. How droll it would be if no one was allowed to disagree or actually show some emotion or passion in their responses. Aseanag doesn't like that people vehemently disagreed on things like the prep school and a dang flyover. And then holds a grudge on it.

3) Bullet and Pima are spouses and provide excellent viewpoints from both sides of the AF life. Be careful, most often Bullet is in agreement with Pima and sometimes he doesn't go into the rest of the nitty gritty because his wife does a good job of explaining it instead. ;) They work well as a team.

4) Like Member said, you asked this in SERVICE ACADEMY FORUMS. Of course you'll get an answer in that context. You're a 16 y/o asking about if being a fighter pilot will help becoming a commercial pilot. Yes/No answer to that doesn't have a whole lot of value without the context. If I was asking that, the answer might be shorter - I'm a month from UPT and short of busting out, I will come to the T-1/T-38 track select. I've already made it through being accepted into a commissioning program, doing well enough to earn a pilot slot, and then doing well enough to graduate. Even then, the perspective on commercial airline life and the process of going fighter to civilian to airline is still valuable.

So, it's great you are looking at the options and wanting to know what they mean in the future. But don't get upset when you get the reality check of all the things it takes to GET to a pilot and all the things to EXPERIENCE as that pilot. And while YOU may not care, maybe someone else appreciates the advice. This forum probably has 2-3 times the value of JUST the questions asked because of all the additional perspective others have freely given.

Here's a life lesson. Be prepared to hear the answers if you decide to ask a ton of people. And humble yourself some - it's reflects poorly on you to so arrogantly dismiss and whine at those who have walked the walk. If I saw some teenage in real life go up to a pilot, their spouse, or another military member/veteran and talk like you have in this forum, that teenager would get a real earful from a lot of people. So be thankful for anonymity online.
Click to expand...

I hold a grudge! Too funny. And you forgot to mention graduate school. Some people see the glass half full and some see the glass half empty. Get the information you need elsewhere. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors. IMHP you were no more arrogant than the many of the adults on this forum.
 
Cannon,

Believe it or not, I know there are lurkers here wondering the exact same thing as you, thus my posts are also there for the lurkers so they can gain information too

What was so horrible did I actually say?

1. I said you are 16-17. That is a fact. I was merely saying don't wish your life away and not enjoy the moment you are in right here, right now.

2. I still stand by clearing that 1st hurdle. You might think getting an appointment is a snap, but it isn't. Nor has there been a class that commissioned 100% of those that arrive on I-Day.
~~~~ What is your priority right now? AFA or commercial airline.

3. I believe I stated use this is the time to learn how what your life today will impact you in a yr.
~~~~ Medical history and academic stats.

Again, how did you see this as I am the naysayer? Nobody with your initial post would know whether you shooting for the stars for the AFA or AFROTC scholarship since nobody still knows yet from your posts if academically you are even a match. A 26 E on your ACT is basically going to shut the doors for both options.

What was wrong with me pointing that out to you? Personally, I think it would be wrong if I didn't...again go back to clearing the 1st hurdle in a yr than one that is 20 yrs from today, on a very good day.

IMPO, I told you exactly the truth. To get an honest answer, one that is specific to you, than I suggest you give all of the information you can if you want a realistic response.

I.E. Do you have a PPL or any flight hours at all? Or is your flying experience getting on a commercial airplane and thinking this is cool?

I am really not understanding that if joining the AF to become a commercial pilot how none of my points are not important.

I never said you can't do it, now did I? I never said you should not do it. I said, clear hurdle 1 - 5 before you start figuring out how to get through hurdles 6-10.

The only thing I said in a negative way was regarding an interview, with the I want to be a fighter pilot comment. Any ALO, or MOC nom committee member has heard that line a thousand times, but the fact is when you commission, or wing and get that F22/35, you know what they call you? Lt. Cannonball, not Pilot Cannonball. To make rank for a 20 yr. career you will step out of the cockpit. You will have a desk job at your base when you are not flying. You don't fly 5 days a week once you become MQ. They all know that.
~~~~ Just my way to politely give you a hint on how to answer that question in the future....shame on me for being so honest that it might actually make you think about how to answer the question....Why the AF? Notice my tag line, that should tell you what they are looking for! Service before what?
 
Last edited:
Two Rules of the "SAF Mafia"

First, you don't talk about the "SAF Mafia".

Second, you don't talk about the "SAF Mafia".

But we do have some nice club jackets.... :biggrin:
 
Bullet said:
First, you don't talk about the "SAF Mafia".

Second, you don't talk about the "SAF Mafia".

But we do have some nice club jackets.... :biggrin:
Click to expand...

When do SAF Mafia members gets fridges in their rooms?!?! And where can they store their golf clubs!
 
Cannonball said:
If I would have asked about the academy or rotc then I would expect an answer about them. I simply asked if being a fighter pilot was a disadvantage when applying as an airline pilot. Bullet answered the question directly and to the point. Thank you bullet. Pima just goes overboard in her answers and assumes a lot. Also thank to the people who contacted me privately. Apparently the SAF mafia has driven discussions underground on here.
Click to expand...


Now that I've posted my little jib ab out the "SAF Mafia", let's get a little serious here in response to this.

Frankly, Cannonball, the person you SHOULD be thanking IS Pima, not me. Yes, I answered the question pretty direct and to the point. Mostly because I really didn't give two figs about spending the time to set you straight on what was a rather silly question. Mostly just to post a joke at the end. And why didn't I really care? Well, to be blunt, the chances of you getting that dream of flying fighters is pretty dang small. I mean, REALLY small. I know, I've seen it personally, both in my career and during my years here. Lots of guys / girls better than you failed to get that dream. Every person trying will eventually face a challenge on the path to their dreams, and many fall by the way-side. Ultimately, I just didn't want to waste my time blowing smoke up your nether regions.

Pima? Well, she actually spent the time trying to get you to focus on the more important things for you RIGHT NOW. Less encouraging, your-life-will-be-rainbows-and-lollipops than some? Well, what do you want, your ego stroked or the truth? (Answer: real fighter pilots (and WSOs) prefer knowing what the challenge is in front of them than the dream is 20 years from now). That person you insulted by hoping we were more encouraging to our son did something better for him than that. She told him to focus on the important things now. She helped him on his path to his dream by passing her (and my) experience, giving honest advice on the challenges he will face TODAY in the hopes that he gets his dreams tomorrow. Sorry this method doesn't meet your "but they always told me I was the best and gave me trophies for 9th place!" view of the world. Seems to have worked for our son. Perhaps its not up your alley. But if you really want to get that fighter, learn to get used to it. NO ONE there is going to stroke your ego getting there.

So why don't you just do smart thing now, open your eyes a little to the fact that Pima had the best intentions and was trying to help you, and offer up a sincere apology and thanks. She actually cared enough to try to help you on your way, knowing the odds are against you (especially with your attitude).

Or you could ignore me. I couldn't give two figs either way.....
 
Last edited:
Now for some good news/bad news to amplify on Bullet's point about chances.

Roughly 10-20% of applicants to USAFA get in.
Of those, about 75% graduate.
Of those, roughly 50% get a rated slot (pilot, CSO, ABM slot, etc).
Of those, a majority try for T-38s, and 20-35% get them.
Within T-38s, somewhere between 0 and 75% get fighters.

For my class:
Just over 1300 entered USAFA, 1001 graduated on time.
In my UPT class of 30, 27 tracked on time, and 7 got T-38s.
One of the T-38 students got a fighter, and one FAIPed (basically 2nd chance at whatever they want, after their FAIP assignment).

So, for a random person to applying to the academy, they have a roughly 2% chance of getting T-38s in UPT, if my class is used as a baseline (NOT a very predictable thing, by the way). If you want to go all the way to getting a fighter, the chances work out to somewhere around 0.0% to 1.5%, depending on the needs of the AF.

What does that mean to the aspiring candidate? It means you face an uphill battle. The odds are not for you, but you have lots of choices to improve or destroy your chances. Make the most of them! As long as the AF is still making fighter pilots, there is a chance. "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity."
 
raimius said:
Roughly 10-20% of applicants to USAFA get in.
Of those, about 75% graduate.
Of those, roughly 50% get a rated slot (pilot, CSO, ABM slot, etc).
Click to expand...
Just for fun...anybody know the specifics of what the actual "chances" might be just to become an AF pilot (any air frame)?
Projected for my son's class (USAFA 2015):
12,732 applicants
1372 offers of admission (10.7% of applicant pool)
1137 admitted (9% of applicant pool)
852 Graduate/Commission (projected @ 75%)
426 rated slots (projected @ 50%)
How many of the above ^ actually go to IFS?
Any idea how many skip IFS because they already have a PPL?
75% graduate from IFS < Is this correct?
What is the UPT grad rate for all tracks?
 
aglages said:
Just for fun...anybody know the specifics of what the actual "chances" might be just to become an AF pilot (any air frame)?
Projected for my son's class (USAFA 2015):
12,732 applicants
1372 offers of admission (10.7% of applicant pool)
1137 admitted (9% of applicant pool)
852 Graduate/Commission (projected @ 75%)
426 rated slots (projected @ 50%)
How many of the above ^ actually go to IFS?
Any idea how many skip IFS because they already have a PPL?
75% graduate from IFS < Is this correct?
What is the UPT grad rate for all tracks?
Click to expand...

I have heard that nearly all of the USAFA pilot slot recipients are going through IFS since few of them have their PPL compared to the AFROTC candidates.
Son's class (2011) was not eligible to skip IFS so I can't give any numbers.

The graduation rate for IFS was closer to 90% for the 2011s.

The historic drop rate for UPT is 11-13% according to the AF numbers. The problem is that it varies widely from class to class because of the small size of each group. One or two extra dropping from UPT really moves the percentage. In son's UPT class they lost 4 overall out of 25 but some washed back and one washed in so even that is not 100% accurate. Also, historically the T-38 track has a higher fail rate, but in son's class they had no US T-38 washouts or wash backs. All 4 washouts were either in T-6 or T-1. It can really vary.

Stealth_81
 
On the "unofficial" tracking page for 2011 pilot slots it lists these stats as of 9/9/13. (Approximately 500 slots at graduation.)

Winged: 311
Herbivores: 243
Carnivores: 68

Stealth_81
 
I agree with Stealth it does vary class to class.

Our DS's IFS class had 30 students, 4 busted. Bullets colleague at the Pentagon was an IFS instructor prior to his 35 assignment said it was traditionally 75-80% graduate.

DS is at Laughlin where Stealth's DS winged. A yr behind his DS. In his class they started with 30 on April 2nd. They will track T-1/38s Sept 20th. They already have 4 that washed out, and 1 wash back in the T-6 program, and have yet to do their final check flight yet. They have had no wash ins yet.

They don't know how many 38's will drop, but typically it is around 6-8. Thus, if it is 8, the statistical chances of getting a 38 will be much higher because they only have 25 left in the class. Chances of getting 8 to drop is unlikely.

As you can see it really varies class to class even at the same base.

Stealth is correct many AFROTC cadets now have a PPL because of the new PCSM. Your score jumps dramatically with the amount of flight hrs you have. Thus, they try to get as many hrs as they can to raise their chances for UPT. When AFROTC cadets apply for rated they must put all 4 rated slots down. (Pilot, CSO, ABM and RPA). The higher your PCSM, the higher your chance to get UPT and not the other 3.

OBTW for DS's IFS and UPT class, the 1st one to bust for each school was an AFA grad. They busted academics (bolds) in the 1st week there. The 1st wash back was an AFA grad, they busted the PFT.
 
Last edited:
Pima said:
I agree with Stealth it does vary class to class.

Our DS's IFS class had 30 students, 4 busted. Bullets colleague at the Pentagon was an IFS instructor prior to his 35 assignment said it was traditionally 75-80% wash out rate.
Click to expand...
I think you mean 75-80% graduation rate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top